Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
April 19, 2019, 02:15:37 AM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: Airpower History Magazine
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Send this topic Print
Author Topic: Airpower History Magazine  (Read 1163 times)
NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,169
Unit: of issue

« on: March 18, 2019, 06:03:10 PM »

http://www.afhistory.org/wp-content/uploads/Spring2019-Issue_All.pdf

Page 19.

To channel a little Linda Richman: Talk amongst yourselves



Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,752

« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2019, 07:22:26 PM »

"The CAP damage or destruction claims are now known to be without factual evidence..."

There, I've saved you all 35 seconds of skimming for that sentence.

Honestly, is there anything more "CAP" then its own lore being questionable at best
and requiring an asterisk?

To be fair though, as Col Blazich comments, combat was not a primary duty of CAP, even during this
period, and to that point, there are plenty of other ships, planes, units, and soldiers
who served fervently and with great effect despite not having a "kill" to their name.

Asking if they were a deterrent value is like asking if a fire department in a city that's never
had a fire is worth the expense.  There's no way to answer that question, except with dyer warnings
of potential consequences, or examples of places that suffered due to the lack of protection.

Once could certainly conjecture that the Germans were cognizant of coastal patrols and adjusted their behavior
because of them, making their missions more difficult as evidenced by their nearly zero impact on the CONUS
during the war.

My wish for CAP is that it would spend as much time concentrating on what it should be doing today
as what it might have done 70+ years ago, resulting in so much success and efficiency that
historical discussions are left to where they belong - as the basis of the organization, not the
focus of 30% of it's current activities.
Report to moderator   Logged


NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,169
Unit: of issue

« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2019, 07:54:12 PM »

I think the conclusion spells that out.

If CAP's Coastal Patrol hadn't stepped into the breech, allowing the Army & Navy time to build a more cohesive defense, and hadn't at least been somewhat effective, we wouldn't have been doing it for 18 months.

Quote
"This contribution is best measured not in destroyed submarines, but rather the untold numbers of men, ships, and war materiel that arrived safely on foreign shores to help defeat the Axis powers."
Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,169
Unit: of issue

« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2019, 08:03:32 PM »

To be fair though, as Col Blazich comments, combat was not a primary duty of CAP, even during this
period, and to that point, there are plenty of other ships, planes, units, and soldiers
who served fervently and with great effect despite not having a "kill" to their name.

You should probably be aware, that was written under the aegis of the Smithsonian, not CAP.
Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,752

« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2019, 08:12:31 PM »

To be fair though, as Col Blazich comments, combat was not a primary duty of CAP, even during this
period, and to that point, there are plenty of other ships, planes, units, and soldiers
who served fervently and with great effect despite not having a "kill" to their name.

You should probably be aware, that was written under the aegis of the Smithsonian, not CAP.

He'll always be a Col to me...
Report to moderator   Logged


NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,169
Unit: of issue

« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2019, 08:15:51 PM »

He'll always be a Col to me...

Except when he's Dr.
Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,624
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2019, 01:00:10 AM »

He'll always be a Col to me...

Except when he's Dr.

 >:D
Report to moderator   Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
flyboy53
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 922

« Reply #7 on: April 15, 2019, 01:22:41 PM »

Guess I'm wondering why it even matters -- damaged or destroyed.

It isn't all about that claim, it's about what they did given the resources and the missions. It should be more about the men and women lost in service to their country.

The record accomplished by a bunch of volunteers stands on it's own merits, regardless.
Report to moderator   Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,196
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #8 on: April 15, 2019, 04:41:46 PM »

Guess I'm wondering why it even matters -- damaged or destroyed.

It isn't all about that claim, it's about what they did given the resources and the missions. It should be more about the men and women lost in service to their country.

The record accomplished by a bunch of volunteers stands on it's own merits, regardless.


It isn't ALL about the claims, but it really does matter if CAP is trying or not to set the "we killed U-boats" claims to right. It matters because it says vast things about our individual and corporate ethics. When we unquestioningly push untruths without proof (whether they're just based on poor comm, on eager but self-delusional beliefs, or outright organizational lies in order to inflate our performance to get wartime and post war funding) we compromise our integrity. Core Value time.

Even Popes and Marines have lapses (e.g. the collusion to falsify V-22 maintenance numbers to keep that program sold). What we do about it when we discover it is what really matters.

So yeah, it matters - a lot.


V/r
Spam



Report to moderator   Logged
flyboy53
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 922

« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2019, 04:50:53 PM »

Guess I'm wondering why it even matters -- damaged or destroyed.

It isn't all about that claim, it's about what they did given the resources and the missions. It should be more about the men and women lost in service to their country.

The record accomplished by a bunch of volunteers stands on it's own merits, regardless.


It isn't ALL about the claims, but it really does matter if CAP is trying or not to set the "we killed U-boats" claims to right. It matters because it says vast things about our individual and corporate ethics. When we unquestioningly push untruths without proof (whether they're just based on poor comm, on eager but self-delusional beliefs, or outright organizational lies in order to inflate our performance to get wartime and post war funding) we compromise our integrity. Core Value time.

Even Popes and Marines have lapses (e.g. the collusion to falsify V-22 maintenance numbers to keep that program sold). What we do about it when we discover it is what really matters.

So yeah, it matters - a lot.


V/r
Spam

True. I was looking at it from the prospective that a "corrected course" devoid of the "destroyed" claim would not tarnish the organization, given the other aspects of its history.
Report to moderator   Logged
NIN
Administrator

Posts: 5,169
Unit: of issue

« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2019, 07:14:21 PM »

True. I was looking at it from the prospective that a "corrected course" devoid of the "destroyed" claim would not tarnish the organization, given the other aspects of its history.

And the author even says that. We had a spectacular WWII record even without "sank 2."

Report to moderator   Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,727

« Reply #11 on: April 16, 2019, 12:12:12 AM »

How did I miss that meme?!  :clap:
Report to moderator   Logged
Pages: [1] Send this topic Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Hysterical History  |  Topic: Airpower History Magazine
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.068 seconds with 26 queries.