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Author Topic: Cadet aircrews a thing or a hallucination?  (Read 1605 times)
Eclipse
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« on: March 17, 2019, 12:26:45 AM »

I would swear I'd heard about cadet-only crews, but based on the below, was I hallucinating?

CAPT 70-1, Page 23:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/CAPR_701_CAP_Flight_Management__4_D_2EE141C7EBE43.pdf

"9.10.9.3.2. At no time may a PIC who is a CAP cadet carry another CAP cadet as a
passenger or crew member"
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coudano
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« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2019, 12:38:24 AM »

it has happened, back in the day.

without looking in 70-1 it seems like there's an exception for a cadet who is a CFI...
i can't remember the specific though
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2019, 05:20:25 AM »

it has happened, back in the day.

without looking in 70-1 it seems like there's an exception for a cadet who is a CFI...
i can't remember the specific though

Sounds do-able. A cadet student pilot being instructed by a cadet CFI is neither crew member nor passenger.


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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2019, 05:34:15 AM »

That's not an aircrew (and that's also a pretty sharp edge to try to walk).

I would swear I had heard of an actual aircrew of all cadets.
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coudano
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« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2019, 06:31:28 AM »

I saw one with my own eyes once (i was on the flight line crew that launched and recovered them)
but that was circa like 1993.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2019, 08:25:04 AM »

I saw one with my own eyes once (i was on the flight line crew that launched and recovered them)
but that was circa like 1993.

IIRC, there was an all cadet aircrew as part of an article in the Volunteer a couple of years ago.
Edited to add:
From 60-1, 2016:

2-3.e. Only pilots that are qualified as CAP instructors, cadet and ROTC/JROTC orientation pilots, or SAR/DR or transport mission pilots (during supervised missions) may carry CAP cadets as passengers or crew members. At no time may a pilot who is a CAP cadet carry another CAP cadet as a passenger or crew member.

1-3.h. CAP Instructor Pilot – Qualified to give flight instruction and FAA endorsements to other members using CAP aircraft.

3-7.e. CAP Instructor Pilot.
(1) Qualified CAP VFR pilot in the aircraft model flown if a corporate CAP aircraft.
(2) Qualified IAW FAA regulations to operate as an Instructor in the CAP aircraft flown.
(3) Satisfactorily complete an instructor endorsement on a CAPF 5 within the preceding 12 calendar months and be appointed in OPS Quals as a CAP instructor pilot by the wing or region commander, Executive Director, or their designee.
(4) Refer to paragraph 3-6a(4) for G1000 instructors.
The language in the new 70-1 is essentially identical, with different paragraph numbering. Also, the 2016 language is a continuation from as far back as 2012.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 08:49:53 AM by SarDragon » Report to moderator   Logged
Dave Bowles
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2019, 08:10:58 PM »

Remember cadets and parents may be reading this thread. Keep it clean.
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Squadron Safety Officer
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NIN
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« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2019, 08:28:38 PM »

That's not an aircrew (and that's also a pretty sharp edge to try to walk).

I would swear I had heard of an actual aircrew of all cadets.

I've seen it. I've also seen a cadet aircrew of all female cadets.

Its become less and less of a thing since the aforementioned rules were enacted.
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
arajca
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« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2019, 08:51:34 PM »

Part of the issue is CPP. Seniors are required to supervise cadets. If there are no seniors on an aircrew, who is supervising the cadets?

Please don't say "remote supervision". I have seen and heard cadets, supposedly being 'supervised remotely' making complete idiots of themselves on the radio. Remote being several miles away.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2019, 05:01:22 AM »

That's not an aircrew (and that's also a pretty sharp edge to try to walk).

I would swear I had heard of an actual aircrew of all cadets.
There was one back in the day........NHQ made a big thing about it.  It was in the CAP magazine IIRC or on their web site "all cadet aircrew...etc et al" then the powers that be got all sort of upset about it and pushed out a change to 60-1 to make it forbidden.

I remember a lot of discussion about it.....but I don't remember where we had that discussion.   Could have been on the old cadet stuff forum or here....can't remember.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
lordmonar
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2019, 05:09:32 AM »

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=2233.0

Here is a link the CT thread where the Volunteer ran article about all cadet crews.   
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: March 18, 2019, 05:46:06 AM »

That's what's in my hallucination, and I can picture the cadet from PRWG, I just can't find
anything anywhere to verify it, or whether it was a full cadet crew.

Of course NHQ Volunteer Magazine only goes to 2010 now, and the Wayback machine
doesn't appear to have it either
.

Found it - Cadet MP but rest of crew was Seniors, as allowed in the regs.
No wonder the photo is familiar, it was the face of CAP for probably 5 years on the web page.

FWIW, I would hazard that from a CISM perspective, having a cadet lead a serach for someone they
know personally isn't the wisest choice, but it is what it was.





This was my mis-remembering, so I'm gonna say have to say "no" to "any all cadet-aircrews?" in
the last couple of decades, anyway, unless someone can show otherwise.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2019, 05:55:10 AM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


SarDragon
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« Reply #12 on: March 18, 2019, 06:18:51 AM »

Here's an excerpt from CAP REGULATION 60-1, 20 FEBRUARY 2008:

2-6.a.(1) During USAF assigned or CAP corporate missions involving the performance of actual or training emergency services operations, CAP members must be at least 18 years of age and mission qualified (or in mission aircrew training status) to act as pilot, observer, or scanner. Any AFROTC or CAP member may fly aboard CAP aircraft traveling directly to and from a mission base.
The language in its replacement, from 5 JANUARY 2009, Includes Change 1 (Corrected Copy), 2Feb2009, is the same as the current version. So, the policy changed a short time after the 2007 article.
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Dave Bowles
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Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: March 18, 2019, 06:28:47 AM »

Here's an excerpt from CAP REGULATION 60-1, 20 FEBRUARY 2008:

2-6.a.(1) During USAF assigned or CAP corporate missions involving the performance of actual or training emergency services operations, CAP members must be at least 18 years of age and mission qualified (or in mission aircrew training status) to act as pilot, observer, or scanner. Any AFROTC or CAP member may fly aboard CAP aircraft traveling directly to and from a mission base.
The language in its replacement, from 5 JANUARY 2009, Includes Change 1 (Corrected Copy), 2Feb2009, is the same as the current version. So, the policy changed a short time after the 2007 article.

Which is odd, actually, considering that I recall a lot of rhetoric at the time, about how cadets were going to be the new crews for Air SAR.
At least locally, there was some push-back among the more "seasoned" pilots about that.

I wonder if the reg change was in anticipation of, or in reaction to, the idea that the GOBs were going to be run over by the ankle biters?
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