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Author Topic: What Can a VFR Pilot Do?  (Read 1033 times)
etodd
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« on: March 16, 2019, 07:05:26 PM »

What can a CAP VFR or IFR Pilot Do? I've been looking in 70-1, 60-3, and maybe its right under my nose. Sure a new pilot who gets his Form 5 can now rent the plane, he can fly with a CFI for training.  But can he transport a plane as part of a MX mission? Or is that strictly for TMP or above? I can't find the particulars.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 07:14:25 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2019, 07:14:08 PM »

TMP is an ES ratting with minimum hours.

VFR pilots can rent planes and build hours.
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etodd
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« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2019, 07:15:01 PM »

TMP is an ES ratting with minimum hours.

VFR pilots can rent planes and build hours.

Yes, but the question was:

Quote
But can he transport a plane as part of a MX mission?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2019, 08:05:21 PM »

No.

That requires a...wait...

...wait...

...wait...

Transport Mission Pilot.
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PHall
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« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2019, 08:25:08 PM »

And what are the requirements to become a Transport Mission Pilot etodd? (It's in the reg...)
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etodd
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« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2019, 09:24:06 PM »

And what are the requirements to become a Transport Mission Pilot etodd? (It's in the reg...)


Yes, yes, I know what is required to be a TMP.  But I'm obviously overlooking where it says a VFR pilot cannot transport a plane for MX. Or worded differently saying that ONLY a TMP can transport a plane for MX. 

Could the VFR pilot fly the chase plane, as part of a MX Mission? And not fly the actual MX plane in the mix?

I cannot find specifics.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 09:30:15 PM by etodd » Report to moderator   Logged
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« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2019, 10:09:02 PM »

CAP regs rarely tell you want you can't do, they tell you what you can do, in a given situation.

Check 60-3.

Ferry and maintenance flights are missions, you can't fly a mission without the rating.

This is the SQTR:

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Eclipse
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« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2019, 10:10:13 PM »

Could the VFR pilot fly the chase plane, as part of a MX Mission? And not fly the actual MX plane in the mix?

No. Both planes in that case are signed into the mission, which is generally an AFAM.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2019, 10:16:08 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Eclipse
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« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2019, 10:15:59 PM »

Also this:  https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/07_AIF_FLT_LOG_2_81FD5C2AAB39A.pdf



The verbiege is the same for B9 & C9.
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etodd
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« Reply #9 on: March 16, 2019, 11:06:59 PM »




The verbiege is the same for B9 & C9.

YES!  Thats where I had seen it in the past.  Thanks!

Have a new pilot who "thinks" he can do more than he is allowed to. Maybe this will help him to start working to get through MS, TMP, and hopefully MP one day.
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PHall
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« Reply #10 on: March 16, 2019, 11:37:19 PM »




The verbiege is the same for B9 & C9.

YES!  Thats where I had seen it in the past.  Thanks!

Have a new pilot who "thinks" he can do more than he is allowed to. Maybe this will help him to start working to get through MS, TMP, and hopefully MP one day.

Sounds like you may need to review the regs before that next recurring check ride.
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etodd
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« Reply #11 on: March 16, 2019, 11:49:12 PM »


Sounds like you may need to review the regs before that next recurring check ride.

Thats the funny part. I was looking all through 70-1, 60-3 and elsewhere and it wasn't until Eclipse pointed out this separate "CAP AIF ― FLT_LOG_2" that I remembered seeing it.  I wanted that specific wording, and its not in what most  folks think of as the "Regs" , as in a CAPR document.

 I'm trying to help our new pilots. Just finished up two last month with their Mission Scanner training and signed them off. Got this third one I'm trying to get motivated.

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coudano
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« Reply #12 on: March 17, 2019, 12:03:12 AM »

MS is *NOT* pre-requisite to TMP.
All you need is a current form 5 and 100 hours PIC.
(and level 1)

MS *IS* pre-requisite to MP.
And you need 175 hours PIC to start flying training funded training missions toward your MP rating (200 PIC to qualify)

« Last Edit: March 17, 2019, 12:10:55 AM by coudano » Report to moderator   Logged
Eclipse
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« Reply #13 on: March 17, 2019, 12:08:55 AM »

No one said it was, but there's a few more things on that list above, not to mention approval,
and most wings aren't going to be letting low-time TMPs fly MX runs unless the stars align or
they are woefully short of pilots.
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coudano
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« Reply #14 on: March 17, 2019, 12:14:14 AM »

No one said it was, but there's a few more things on that list above, not to mention approval,
and most wings aren't going to be letting low-time TMPs fly MX runs unless the stars align or
they are woefully short of pilots.

Meh, we go out of our way to throw missions that are TMP eligible to TMP's, in order to HELP get them up to 175 as much as we can.

That even includes highbird  (!)
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PHall
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« Reply #15 on: March 17, 2019, 12:26:14 AM »

How do you expect them to build hours if you won't let them fly. MX flight is just about the lowest risk sortie there is.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: March 17, 2019, 12:28:00 AM »

^ 3-4 hour sorties can be a great way to build time (and bladder), sadly I've had to have a couple
"conversations" with AOBDs, etc., about them being allowed for TMPs.
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etodd
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« Reply #17 on: March 17, 2019, 12:45:05 AM »


Meh, we go out of our way to throw missions that are TMP eligible to TMP's, in order to HELP get them up to 175 as much as we can.


Bingo.  Everyday I see how not only are Wings so different, but even Squadrons.

Yes, Our Squadron really tries to help the "new guys" get up to speed.  Do we usually have a MP or CFI fly along on those first missions? Well of course. We also have a few folks that don't mind paying for C-12 to build time as well.

We also combine things as much as possible. We have a 3 leg MX mission tomorrow, 3 man crew, with an AP candidate riding along. We'll circle a couple sites on two of them for him to demonstrate his ability. Hopefully at the end of the day, we will not only have completed the MX Mission successfully, but I'll sign off a new AP as well.

Get people in the air. A plane sitting in the hangar does no one any good.
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audiododd
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« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2019, 03:31:48 AM »

The hardest part for a new pilot (newly minted FAA pilot, not new to the unit) is getting the 100-hours PIC and 50-hours Cross-Country becuase all of that ends up out of your pocket.  Fortunately, I had my license for a few years before joining, so I had those times.  I just had to get my form-5 VFR/G1000 and then apply for TMP.  Both my old CAWG unit and my new AZWG unit were willing to give me MX runs so I could build toward MP (Just recently hit 175-hrs).  Most of the MPs we have here have several hundreds of hours, so they are more than willing to let the new guys take the ferry missions. 
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BJD
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« Reply #19 on: March 18, 2019, 02:22:14 PM »

Be careful with adding extra maneuvers or training to MX sorties (or any non-A5 AFAM).  This is covered in CAPR 60-3, 1-16 (5).

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Eclipse
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« Reply #20 on: March 18, 2019, 03:22:35 PM »

Be careful with adding extra maneuvers or training to MX sorties (or any non-A5 AFAM).  This is covered in CAPR 60-3, 1-16 (5).

+1 MX is supposed to be point to point.
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coudano
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« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2019, 12:10:59 AM »

a route search is easily enough simulated for a mission scanner on a mx ferry
you can do most of the tasks on that
and hit the rest on the 'other' sortie
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etodd
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« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2019, 12:38:24 AM »

Be careful with adding extra maneuvers or training to MX sorties (or any non-A5 AFAM).  This is covered in CAPR 60-3, 1-16 (5).

Yes. Paragraph B covered it. We chose photo targets already on the flight path so as not to really affect the flight time.

And instead of flying at 2000 rpm like some do to build time, we flew 2400 to make up any time lost. 🤣
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Aviation & Flying Activities  |  Topic: What Can a VFR Pilot Do?
 


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