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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: What do encampments look for in cadet cadre
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Poll
Question: What is most important in applying for encampment cadet cadre?
Grade above SSgt   -1 (10%)
More than 2 years experience   -4 (40%)
Prior duty positions (either encampment or squadron)   -5 (50%)
Being referred by other cadet staff   -0 (0%)
Total Members Voted: 10

Author Topic: What do encampments look for in cadet cadre  (Read 820 times)
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« on: November 07, 2018, 02:21:44 PM »

I have applied to 5 different encampments for cadet staff only to be turned down on all of them. What am I doing wrong?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,529

« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2018, 02:32:10 PM »

Well, what are you doing---to start?

We can't say we know what you did wrong without first knowing how you've been applying and conducting your interviews.
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2018, 02:58:04 PM »

This is what I have been submitting. Am I missing something that I should capitalize on?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 03:39:06 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,888

« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2018, 03:17:57 PM »

This is what I have been submitting. Am I missing something that I should capitalize on?

Off the cuff, you're applying for leadership positions and have no apparent leadership experience. You might want to get on the staff in a position that uses your existing skills, gain some leadership experience supervising some other PAO types, and then apply for the first shirt or flight sergeant jobs.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2018, 03:26:35 PM »

This is what I have been submitting. Am I missing something that I should capitalize on?

Off the cuff, you're applying for leadership positions and have no apparent leadership experience. You might want to get on the staff in a position that uses your existing skills, gain some leadership experience supervising some other PAO types, and then apply for the first shirt or flight sergeant jobs.

I have had leadership positions, I have been an element leader and had to fill the flight sargeants shoes for a moth. Planning meeting activities for the flight and all
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,888

« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2018, 03:28:29 PM »

This is what I have been submitting. Am I missing something that I should capitalize on?

Off the cuff, you're applying for leadership positions and have no apparent leadership experience. You might want to get on the staff in a position that uses your existing skills, gain some leadership experience supervising some other PAO types, and then apply for the first shirt or flight sergeant jobs.

I have had leadership positions, I have been an element leader and had to fill the flight sargeants shoes for a moth. Planning meeting activities for the flight and all

Might want to include that in your resume.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #6 on: November 07, 2018, 03:35:58 PM »

This is what I have been submitting. Am I missing something that I should capitalize on?

Off the cuff, you're applying for leadership positions and have no apparent leadership experience. You might want to get on the staff in a position that uses your existing skills, gain some leadership experience supervising some other PAO types, and then apply for the first shirt or flight sergeant jobs.

I have had leadership positions, I have been an element leader and had to fill the flight sargeants shoes for a moth. Planning meeting activities for the flight and all

Might want to include that in your resume.

That has been added. Should I change how I write my letter of intent?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 03:48:39 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #7 on: November 07, 2018, 04:05:54 PM »

What position(s) are you applying for and how far away from MIWG?
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #8 on: November 07, 2018, 04:09:34 PM »

What position(s) are you applying for and how far away from MIWG?

What ever encampments are currently accepting. I usually apply for 1st Sgt, Flight Sgt, or a support staff position.
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Paul Creed III
Seasoned Member

Posts: 241
Unit: GLR-OH-254

« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2018, 04:16:54 PM »

That has been added. Should I change how I write my letter of intent?

Have someone help you with proofreading for grammar mistakes and take a look at CAPP 1-2 on how to format written correspondence.

Attention to detail matters.
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Lt Col Paul Creed III, CAP
National Headquarters Cyber Curriculum Specialist
Great Lakes Region Cyber Programs Officer
Ohio Wing Group 3 Commander
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2018, 05:25:01 PM »

What ever encampments are currently accepting. I usually apply for 1st Sgt, Flight Sgt, or a support staff position.

These are not trivial issues.

As a T/Sgt, you would not generally qualify a First Shirt, with those spots usually
going to a Senior or a Chief with multiple encampments, and few encampment
struggle for local cadets to fill the flight sergeant roles.

Support cadets are also not usually in short supply as some encampments waive
encampment fees in acknowledgement of the hard work expected.

If you are applying to encampments in other large wings and regions, then
they likely have plenty of applicants.

Being well-written is important, generally, but at the level you're applying,
other than First Shirt, unless it's really bad, it's not likely a factor.

Asking the staff directly would get you the real answers.


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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,464
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #11 on: November 07, 2018, 05:33:49 PM »

In addition to listing the positions you have held, you should also talk about your accomplishments in those positions.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2018, 05:49:46 PM »

What ever encampments are currently accepting. I usually apply for 1st Sgt, Flight Sgt, or a support staff position.

These are not trivial issues.

As a T/Sgt, you would not generally qualify a First Shirt, with those spots usually
going to a Senior or a Chief with multiple encampments, and few encampment
struggle for local cadets to fill the flight sergeant roles.

Support cadets are also not usually in short supply as some encampments waive
encampment fees in acknowledgement of the hard work expected.

If you are applying to encampments in other large wings and regions, then
they likely have plenty of applicants.

Being well-written is important, generally, but at the level you're applying,
other than First Shirt, unless it's really bad, it's not likely a factor.

Asking the staff directly would get you the real answers.

+1 beat me too it.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2018, 05:50:13 PM »

In addition to listing the positions you have held, you should also talk about your accomplishments in those positions.
Agreed, and anything listed should be relevent to the level and scale / scope of the job you're requesting.

We've recently moved on a single page resume, because many cadets just list everything they have done
since they joined in a single-spaced column, making the reader ferret out relevancy.

To this point, if a resume is called for, make sure it's in resume format (and put your name on it).

As with any job-seeking situation, on the mean the people applying for a given job will all have the
same general qualifications, experience, and profiles.  Reviewers are looking for anything they can use
to weed out resumes easily and put them on the "no" pile.

Don't make their job easier with simple mistakes, improper submissions, or inappropriate applications.
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2018, 05:57:34 PM »

Quote
To this point, if a resume is called for, make sure it's in resume format (and put your name on it)

I have searched for a standard resume format. Is there one or does it just have to look professional?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2018, 06:58:21 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2018, 06:06:00 PM »

To this point, if a resume is called for, make sure it's in resume format (and put your name on it).

Don't make their job easier with simple mistakes, improper submissions, or inappropriate applications.
I have searched for a standard resume format. Is there one or does it just have to look professional?

There are far too many to answer that question, however checking with cadets who have been successful in
getting a staff role, or asking the leadership of the respective encampments would be your best bet.

Absent that, Googling "Military Resume format"will return plenty of templates that are acceptable.

PROTIP; Never send an editable Word Doc, always send a PDF.
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Airplane girl
Member

Posts: 72

« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2018, 06:08:12 PM »

I donít know what the specific instructions were for the letter of intent in terms of content or length, but one thing I would say is to make it more specific to you. There are a lot of things that are vague, and that could be applied to most people applying to the position. What makes you stand out among all of the cadets applying for the same position? What is your unique leadership style? A lot of times, a story from your experience as an element leader or flight sergeant would be a good way to illustrate this.

Good luck in your application!
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,142
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #17 on: November 08, 2018, 12:17:29 AM »

Hi Rifleman.

I want to preface my reply by saying that you may be hearing some brutal sounding replies and that even so I hope you'll take them in the constructive spirit in which they're given. For example, I want to second what LTC Creed recommends, in that attention to detail and proof reading matter greatly in this area (written applications/resumes). You really need to treat this as an important school assignment and turn in your best effort (checking everything) after asking reviewers for editorial inputs. In the grand scheme of things, accepting brutal but useful feedback from your friends here on CapTalk could help you grow to really stand out as a young adult going for a job interview or Academy/university selection board (it worked for me)!

In specific, here's what springs out to me in terms of proof reading:

- Resume: you've spelled "Rickenbacker" incorrectly. That's a deal breaker pal!
- Count your Promotions and compare to your listed Awards; is anything missing? Hint: they are spelled "Arnold" and "Feik".
- "Leadership/Training Activities" are (with the exception of your Trainee Encampment) all on line courses. I fail to see how you can portray these as "leadership" activities.
- If you indeed have leadership experience (Element Leader, Flight Sergeant, in your case) list the effective dates from eServices of your appointment. Noted your "PA NCO" (great job there... correct title after all!) but credit yourself with the date appointed as well. Your resume column header says "Dates"... you don't have dates. Fix that (see below for why)!
- Delete the double booked items. Delete the entire "Experience" section and move "Color Guard Rifleman" (update it with beginning date) under "Squadron Activities". Delete the Wright Bros Award (already cited). Delete the Encampment certificate (as you've already booked it twice above, counting the ribbon).
- Don't include other cadets as references; cite Cadet Programs rated Senior Member officers (preferably your CC or your Deputy CC for Cadets).
- Frankly, your letter rambles and has little structure. You need to segregate your thoughts into discrete groups (paragraphs) each aimed at making a coherent point. You then need to write in complete sentences with no fragments or run on sentences, using correct punctuation. Read through it aloud looking for sentences that make no sense, e.g. "We will inspire the next year's encampment of staff".

Weighing you against peer candidates:
-  I would rarely select a newly appointed C/NCO with one months experience as a Flight Sergeant (let alone C/First Sergeant supervising other C/SNCOs). As you are showing only 6 months as an Element Leader and only 1 month as a C/Flight Sergeant, that to me doesn't scream "great low risk candidate" to be an encampment Flight Sergeant. To me, you would need several solid months under your belt, because this position is a key factor in producing a quality experience for Trainees. (Again, see below on getting credit for those months).

- Your advancement burn rate is very low (against the Oath: "...advance my training and education rapidly...". You joined in NOV2016 and took quite a while to advance. So, despite being a cadet for two years you have comparatively little C/NCO experience to offer to the encampment NCO slots. From a positive standpoint, it looks like you "switched on" this summer (congratulations!) but the bulk of your experience is not as a C/NCO, and many selection boards would be wary of installing someone who - on paper - is not an apparent high achiever as an exemplar to new cadets.

- Comparatively then, I would rate you low against peer C/NCOs for encampment Flight Sergeants (looking for C/TSGTs and up with C/NCO track records) and I would not even consider you for Cadet First Sergeant billets (looking for C/MSGTs and C/CMSGTs only, ideally with significant experience in coordinating the "NCO System" between multiple flights).

- My impression purely from the record you supply (plus your good posts on CapTalk) is that you appear to have "woken up" this past summer and are now switched on as a Cadet NCO. I applaud your interest and renewed motivation, and want to encourage you to put down the dates of your appointment to start getting credit by accruing "time in position" as a Squadron level Flight Sergeant... if by now you have three months in position, the selection board may take a chance on you as having five months in the job by a winter encampment. 

Best of luck to you. Keep working hard, keep promoting, and keep applying.

V/r,
Spam


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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 843
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #18 on: November 08, 2018, 04:13:55 AM »

Hi Rifleman.

I want to preface my reply by saying that you may be hearing some brutal sounding replies and that even so I hope you'll take them in the constructive spirit in which they're given. For example, I want to second what LTC Creed recommends, in that attention to detail and proof reading matter greatly in this area (written applications/resumes). You really need to treat this as an important school assignment and turn in your best effort (checking everything) after asking reviewers for editorial inputs. In the grand scheme of things, accepting brutal but useful feedback from your friends here on CapTalk could help you grow to really stand out as a young adult going for a job interview or Academy/university selection board (it worked for me)!

In specific, here's what springs out to me in terms of proof reading:

- Resume: you've spelled "Rickenbacker" incorrectly. That's a deal breaker pal!
- Count your Promotions and compare to your listed Awards; is anything missing? Hint: they are spelled "Arnold" and "Feik".
- "Leadership/Training Activities" are (with the exception of your Trainee Encampment) all on line courses. I fail to see how you can portray these as "leadership" activities.
- If you indeed have leadership experience (Element Leader, Flight Sergeant, in your case) list the effective dates from eServices of your appointment. Noted your "PA NCO" (great job there... correct title after all!) but credit yourself with the date appointed as well. Your resume column header says "Dates"... you don't have dates. Fix that (see below for why)!
- Delete the double booked items. Delete the entire "Experience" section and move "Color Guard Rifleman" (update it with beginning date) under "Squadron Activities". Delete the Wright Bros Award (already cited). Delete the Encampment certificate (as you've already booked it twice above, counting the ribbon).
- Don't include other cadets as references; cite Cadet Programs rated Senior Member officers (preferably your CC or your Deputy CC for Cadets).
- Frankly, your letter rambles and has little structure. You need to segregate your thoughts into discrete groups (paragraphs) each aimed at making a coherent point. You then need to write in complete sentences with no fragments or run on sentences, using correct punctuation. Read through it aloud looking for sentences that make no sense, e.g. "We will inspire the next year's encampment of staff".

Weighing you against peer candidates:
-  I would rarely select a newly appointed C/NCO with one months experience as a Flight Sergeant (let alone C/First Sergeant supervising other C/SNCOs). As you are showing only 6 months as an Element Leader and only 1 month as a C/Flight Sergeant, that to me doesn't scream "great low risk candidate" to be an encampment Flight Sergeant. To me, you would need several solid months under your belt, because this position is a key factor in producing a quality experience for Trainees. (Again, see below on getting credit for those months).

- Your advancement burn rate is very low (against the Oath: "...advance my training and education rapidly...". You joined in NOV2016 and took quite a while to advance. So, despite being a cadet for two years you have comparatively little C/NCO experience to offer to the encampment NCO slots. From a positive standpoint, it looks like you "switched on" this summer (congratulations!) but the bulk of your experience is not as a C/NCO, and many selection boards would be wary of installing someone who - on paper - is not an apparent high achiever as an exemplar to new cadets.

- Comparatively then, I would rate you low against peer C/NCOs for encampment Flight Sergeants (looking for C/TSGTs and up with C/NCO track records) and I would not even consider you for Cadet First Sergeant billets (looking for C/MSGTs and C/CMSGTs only, ideally with significant experience in coordinating the "NCO System" between multiple flights).

- My impression purely from the record you supply (plus your good posts on CapTalk) is that you appear to have "woken up" this past summer and are now switched on as a Cadet NCO. I applaud your interest and renewed motivation, and want to encourage you to put down the dates of your appointment to start getting credit by accruing "time in position" as a Squadron level Flight Sergeant... if by now you have three months in position, the selection board may take a chance on you as having five months in the job by a winter encampment. 

Best of luck to you. Keep working hard, keep promoting, and keep applying.

V/r,
Spam

The above is probably the best-tailored advice to the OP which will ever be listed here. I hope OP doesnít go on the offensive, but, instead, takes it to heart and does whatever it takes to match his documents to fit the advice.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #19 on: November 08, 2018, 11:02:25 AM »

Hi Rifleman.

I want to preface my reply by saying that you may be hearing some brutal sounding replies and that even so I hope you'll take them in the constructive spirit in which they're given. For example, I want to second what LTC Creed recommends, in that attention to detail and proof reading matter greatly in this area (written applications/resumes). You really need to treat this as an important school assignment and turn in your best effort (checking everything) after asking reviewers for editorial inputs. In the grand scheme of things, accepting brutal but useful feedback from your friends here on CapTalk could help you grow to really stand out as a young adult going for a job interview or Academy/university selection board (it worked for me)!

In specific, here's what springs out to me in terms of proof reading:

- Resume: you've spelled "Rickenbacker" incorrectly. That's a deal breaker pal!
- Count your Promotions and compare to your listed Awards; is anything missing? Hint: they are spelled "Arnold" and "Feik".
- "Leadership/Training Activities" are (with the exception of your Trainee Encampment) all on line courses. I fail to see how you can portray these as "leadership" activities.
- If you indeed have leadership experience (Element Leader, Flight Sergeant, in your case) list the effective dates from eServices of your appointment. Noted your "PA NCO" (great job there... correct title after all!) but credit yourself with the date appointed as well. Your resume column header says "Dates"... you don't have dates. Fix that (see below for why)!
- Delete the double booked items. Delete the entire "Experience" section and move "Color Guard Rifleman" (update it with beginning date) under "Squadron Activities". Delete the Wright Bros Award (already cited). Delete the Encampment certificate (as you've already booked it twice above, counting the ribbon).
- Don't include other cadets as references; cite Cadet Programs rated Senior Member officers (preferably your CC or your Deputy CC for Cadets).
- Frankly, your letter rambles and has little structure. You need to segregate your thoughts into discrete groups (paragraphs) each aimed at making a coherent point. You then need to write in complete sentences with no fragments or run on sentences, using correct punctuation. Read through it aloud looking for sentences that make no sense, e.g. "We will inspire the next year's encampment of staff".

Weighing you against peer candidates:
-  I would rarely select a newly appointed C/NCO with one months experience as a Flight Sergeant (let alone C/First Sergeant supervising other C/SNCOs). As you are showing only 6 months as an Element Leader and only 1 month as a C/Flight Sergeant, that to me doesn't scream "great low risk candidate" to be an encampment Flight Sergeant. To me, you would need several solid months under your belt, because this position is a key factor in producing a quality experience for Trainees. (Again, see below on getting credit for those months).

- Your advancement burn rate is very low (against the Oath: "...advance my training and education rapidly...". You joined in NOV2016 and took quite a while to advance. So, despite being a cadet for two years you have comparatively little C/NCO experience to offer to the encampment NCO slots. From a positive standpoint, it looks like you "switched on" this summer (congratulations!) but the bulk of your experience is not as a C/NCO, and many selection boards would be wary of installing someone who - on paper - is not an apparent high achiever as an exemplar to new cadets.

- Comparatively then, I would rate you low against peer C/NCOs for encampment Flight Sergeants (looking for C/TSGTs and up with C/NCO track records) and I would not even consider you for Cadet First Sergeant billets (looking for C/MSGTs and C/CMSGTs only, ideally with significant experience in coordinating the "NCO System" between multiple flights).

- My impression purely from the record you supply (plus your good posts on CapTalk) is that you appear to have "woken up" this past summer and are now switched on as a Cadet NCO. I applaud your interest and renewed motivation, and want to encourage you to put down the dates of your appointment to start getting credit by accruing "time in position" as a Squadron level Flight Sergeant... if by now you have three months in position, the selection board may take a chance on you as having five months in the job by a winter encampment. 

Best of luck to you. Keep working hard, keep promoting, and keep applying.

V/r,
Spam

Thank you for the feedback on what I should improve, as I have started to revise it as of yesterday.

When I first joined CAP, I though that meetings didn't happen during the summer (I was wrong). That is why there is such a large gap between Amn and A1C. The other two times were for school. After all, CAP wants cadets to put school ahead of CAP. On eServices, they forgot to put in the element leader into duty positions when that was my position. Also, they figured not to put in flight sergeant since the I was just filling in for a position that was already filled.

Lastly, what should the topic of the paragraph be in the Letter or Intent?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2018, 12:27:32 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

See the source image 
Pages: [1] 2  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: What do encampments look for in cadet cadre
 


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