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Color Guard Rifleman
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« on: October 17, 2018, 11:29:30 AM »

Soon I plan on enlisting into the US Armed Forces. Can I still be a cadet if I am in the reserve or national guard?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2018, 01:26:28 PM by Color Guard Rifleman » Logged
C/TSgt Killeen
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jhighman
Recruit

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Unit: SER-FL-032

« Reply #1 on: October 17, 2018, 11:32:44 AM »

From CAPR 39-2 dated January 2017...

2.2.4. Not a member of the active duty Armed Forces. National Guard and Reserve personnel are not considered active duty Armed Forces unless they are serving on extended active duty. For the purpose of this regulation, CAP does not consider Basic Military Training for Guard and Reserve personnel as extended active duty.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #2 on: October 17, 2018, 11:34:17 AM »

From CAPR 39-2 dated January 2017...

2.2.4. Not a member of the active duty Armed Forces. National Guard and Reserve personnel are not considered active duty Armed Forces unless they are serving on extended active duty. For the purpose of this regulation, CAP does not consider Basic Military Training for Guard and Reserve personnel as extended active duty.

So I may be a part of the reserve or national guard? If so, what exactly is extended active duty? Re-enlisting?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: October 17, 2018, 11:39:29 AM »

From CAPR 39-2 dated January 2017...

2.2.4. Not a member of the active duty Armed Forces. National Guard and Reserve personnel are not considered active duty Armed Forces unless they are serving on extended active duty. For the purpose of this regulation, CAP does not consider Basic Military Training for Guard and Reserve personnel as extended active duty.

So I may be a part of the reserve or national guard? If so, what exactly is extended active duty? Re-enlisting?

As said, BMT isn't considered AD for CAP's purposes, nor in a lot of cases Tech schools (YMMV), however as soon as you go off to do a military job,
deploy, etc., you'd be "real AD" and no longer eligible to be a cadet.

At the point you'd be re-enlisting in just about anything, you'd likely be too old to be a cadet anyway.
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Color Guard Rifleman
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Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #4 on: October 17, 2018, 11:40:11 AM »

From CAPR 39-2 dated January 2017...

2.2.4. Not a member of the active duty Armed Forces. National Guard and Reserve personnel are not considered active duty Armed Forces unless they are serving on extended active duty. For the purpose of this regulation, CAP does not consider Basic Military Training for Guard and Reserve personnel as extended active duty.

So I may be a part of the reserve or national guard? If so, what exactly is extended active duty? Re-enlisting?

As said, BMT isn't considered AD for CAP's purposes, nor in a lot of cases Tech schools (YMMV), however as soon as you go off to do a military job,
deploy, etc., you'd be "real AD" and no longer eligible to be a cadet.

At the point you'd be re-enlisting in just about anything, you'd likely be too old to be a cadet anyway.

Thanks for the clarification
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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jhighman
Recruit

Posts: 35
Unit: SER-FL-032

« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2018, 11:52:05 AM »

Apologies. That first quote discussed initial membership as a cadet, not a change of status for an existing cadet such as yourself!

Obviously you will want to have a thorough conversation with your chain of command to make sure you’re all on the same page. Also, if I may interject from personal experience, be careful of those who want to give you “what I would do if I were you” advice. You know yourself and your values better than anyone else, and to thine own self be true!

That said, the regulation does specifically address your question better than my first salvo:

2.5. Upon Joining the Armed Forces. Cadets who join any branch of the active duty Armed Forces (this does not include military service academies) will furnish CAP/DP written notification along with a CAPF 12 and FD Form 258 (see sample at attachment 5), at which time they will be automatically transferred to active membership status. Additional membership dues are not required for the duration of the current membership year; they will be billed as active member renewals. Note: Cadets who join the National Guard or Reserves are not required to become active upon attending "basic training.” Regardless of the wording of the orders, "basic training" is not interpreted by CAP as "extended active duty." However, National Guard or Reserve members who enter "extended active duty" are not eligible to be cadets and must become active members. Individuals who join the Armed Forces under the delayed enlistment program are not required to become active members until such time as they actually report for duty.

Note that when it says “active member” or “active membership “, they mean becoming a Senior member.

I will leave it to someone with more Cadet Programs experience than I to help define the “extended” part of “extended active duty.”
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2018, 01:25:07 PM »

The short answer is that you can continue to be a cadet as Reserve or NG, subject to some conditions.

However, it’s been argued here before that once you’re serving in an armed service, and you’ve been to BMT, you’ve kind of moved past a point in your life where being a cadet makes sense. You’re in the real world, with real responsibilities, and the level you’re working on is just different. I normally encourage cadets to stay cadets as long as possible. This is one of those areas where, as a commander, I might deviate from that advice a little.


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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Color Guard Rifleman
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Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2018, 01:27:42 PM »

The short answer is that you can continue to be a cadet as Reserve or NG, subject to some conditions.

However, it’s been argued here before that once you’re serving in an armed service, and you’ve been to BMT, you’ve kind of moved past a point in your life where being a cadet makes sense. You’re in the real world, with real responsibilities, and the level you’re working on is just different. I normally encourage cadets to stay cadets as long as possible. This is one of those areas where, as a commander, I might deviate from that advice a little.


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If I do join as Reserves or NG, do I have to enter my service number into eServices?
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C/TSgt Killeen
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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2018, 01:44:58 PM »

The short answer is that you can continue to be a cadet as Reserve or NG, subject to some conditions.

However, it’s been argued here before that once you’re serving in an armed service, and you’ve been to BMT, you’ve kind of moved past a point in your life where being a cadet makes sense. You’re in the real world, with real responsibilities, and the level you’re working on is just different. I normally encourage cadets to stay cadets as long as possible. This is one of those areas where, as a commander, I might deviate from that advice a little.


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If I do join as Reserves or NG, do I have to enter my service number into eServices?

No. I don’t even know where you would put it.

I would have this conversation with your commander or deputy commander and not CAPTalk.


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The moment any commander or staff member considers themselves a gatekeeper, instead of a facilitator, they have failed at their job.
I can't fix all of CAP's problems, but I can lead from the bottom by building my squadron as a center of excellence to serve as an example of what every unit can be.
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2018, 01:47:40 PM »

The short answer is that you can continue to be a cadet as Reserve or NG, subject to some conditions.

However, it’s been argued here before that once you’re serving in an armed service, and you’ve been to BMT, you’ve kind of moved past a point in your life where being a cadet makes sense. You’re in the real world, with real responsibilities, and the level you’re working on is just different. I normally encourage cadets to stay cadets as long as possible. This is one of those areas where, as a commander, I might deviate from that advice a little.


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If I do join as Reserves or NG, do I have to enter my service number into eServices?

No.  There's no action required other then letting your Commanders know, and them monitoring your status.
The day you are AD or EAD, you're not a cadet any more, even if they delay entering the change-over.
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MSG Mac
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« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2018, 01:58:57 PM »

Extended Active Duty means anything that does not involve  a training status. In my case I was a member of the Reserves and received a letter stating that effective 1 April I was to report to Fort Jackson, SC for Extended Active Duty. had I been a cadet, I would have been required to become a Senior Member. the orders are Title 10 for Active Duty. I believe it's Title 30 for Reserve components.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
abdsp51
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« Reply #11 on: October 17, 2018, 02:15:27 PM »

Extended Active Duty means anything that does not involve  a training status. In my case I was a member of the Reserves and received a letter stating that effective 1 April I was to report to Fort Jackson, SC for Extended Active Duty. had I been a cadet, I would have been required to become a Senior Member. the orders are Title 10 for Active Duty. I believe it's Title 30 for Reserve components.

There are definitive guidelines on that.  It would be best to check with the branch you want to go into.  IIRC extended active was/is anything over 90 days..
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PHall
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« Reply #12 on: October 17, 2018, 06:06:37 PM »

Extended Active Duty means anything that does not involve  a training status. In my case I was a member of the Reserves and received a letter stating that effective 1 April I was to report to Fort Jackson, SC for Extended Active Duty. had I been a cadet, I would have been required to become a Senior Member. the orders are Title 10 for Active Duty. I believe it's Title 30 for Reserve components.

There are definitive guidelines on that.  It would be best to check with the branch you want to go into.  IIRC extended active was/is anything over 90 days..

It's anything over 180 days, that's why you see 179 day orders. And school tours to attend tech school don't count as extended active duty either. Even if it is longer then 180 days.
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GroundHawg
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« Reply #13 on: October 18, 2018, 11:01:34 AM »

I joined the Army NG while still a cadet, and I was a SMP ROTC cadet at the time as well.
Its not really an issue unless you make it one.
It is definitely a different experience to be a cadet wearing military awards and badges. Be prepared and accept the fact that you will get called out and you will need your NGB22 or DD214 on you at all times.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #14 on: October 18, 2018, 11:16:31 AM »

you will need your NGB22 or DD214 on you at all times.

Aren't both of those issued on separation?
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #15 on: October 18, 2018, 11:23:48 AM »

you will need your NGB22 or DD214 on you at all times.

Aren't both of those issued on separation?

You should get a DD214 after EAD service if you're in the Guard, so like a deployment. Because when you're no longer "Active," you'll get the separation from active service paperwork. It doesn't mean you're discharged; you're separated from active duty. You're still in the Guard.

The NGB22 is your separation from the Guard.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2018, 11:30:33 AM »

Right - so a cadet who is in the Guard or Reserve would not have these to carry around, correct?
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LSThiker
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« Reply #17 on: October 18, 2018, 01:26:30 PM »

Right - so a cadet who is in the Guard or Reserve would not have these to carry around, correct?

Not necessarily.  Members that are National Guard may receive a DD214 coming off of IET.  I know of many NG Officers that received DD214s after OBC.  I believe enlisted are the same as well--especially when the AIT is 1 year in length.  Also, if a person enlists in NG and then moves over to ROTC without being SMP, that SM will receive NGB 22 as he/she is being separated from the NG. 
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Fubar
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« Reply #18 on: October 18, 2018, 03:41:28 PM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...
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PHall
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« Reply #19 on: October 18, 2018, 05:46:27 PM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2018, 10:27:10 AM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...
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PHall
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Posts: 6,314

« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2018, 10:55:15 AM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...

The United States didn't come into existence until July 4, 1776. You know, that declaration thing.
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LSThiker
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2018, 11:40:56 AM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...

The United States didn't come into existence until July 4, 1776. You know, that declaration thing.

The Army recognizes their birthdate as 14 June 1775 as that is when the Continental Army was authorized enlistment of expert riflemen.  General Washington officially took command of the Continental Army on 03 July 1775, I believe. The Revolutionary War started April 19, 1775. Although the Congress of Confederation created the US Army on 03 June 1784 after the Continental Army was disbanded in 1783.

Interestingly, the National Guard recognizes their birthdate as 13 December 1636.  The Militia Act of 1792 recognizes this date as the official date for the "National Guard".  Although that the term National Guard did not come into existence until 1903, when it became nationally recognized.  Granted New York had their "National Guard" in 1824.   

https://history.army.mil/html/faq/birth.html
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/branches.html
« Last Edit: October 19, 2018, 11:44:03 AM by LSThiker » Logged
PHall
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Posts: 6,314

« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2018, 11:49:13 AM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...

The United States didn't come into existence until July 4, 1776. You know, that declaration thing.

The Army recognizes their birthdate as 14 June 1775 as that is when the Continental Army was authorized enlistment of expert riflemen.  General Washington officially took command of the Continental Army on 03 July 1775, I believe. The Revolutionary War started April 19, 1775. Although the Congress of Confederation created the US Army on 03 June 1784 after the Continental Army was disbanded in 1783.

Interestingly, the National Guard recognizes their birthdate as 13 December 1636.  The Militia Act of 1792 recognizes this date as the official date for the "National Guard".  Although that the term National Guard did not come into existence until 1903, when it became nationally recognized.  Granted New York had their "National Guard" in 1824.   

https://history.army.mil/html/faq/birth.html
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/branches.html

My point is that The United States of America did not exist prior to July 4, 1776.
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TheSkyHornet
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Posts: 1,529

« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2018, 11:51:29 AM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...

The United States didn't come into existence until July 4, 1776. You know, that declaration thing.

The Army recognizes their birthdate as 14 June 1775 as that is when the Continental Army was authorized enlistment of expert riflemen.  General Washington officially took command of the Continental Army on 03 July 1775, I believe. The Revolutionary War started April 19, 1775. Although the Congress of Confederation created the US Army on 03 June 1784 after the Continental Army was disbanded in 1783.

Interestingly, the National Guard recognizes their birthdate as 13 December 1636.  The Militia Act of 1792 recognizes this date as the official date for the "National Guard".  Although that the term National Guard did not come into existence until 1903, when it became nationally recognized.  Granted New York had their "National Guard" in 1824.   

https://history.army.mil/html/faq/birth.html
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/branches.html

My point is that The United States of America did not exist prior to July 4, 1776.

July 2*
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Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2018, 05:42:12 PM »

In my experience, should a cadet join the Guard or the Reserve, they should immediately be transitioned to Senior Member. In all my years I've yet to meet a single "cadet" that was also a member of the Guard or Reserve that wasn't a colossal pain in the fourth point of contact.

YMMV. 
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2018, 05:51:46 PM »

I wonder if CAP will see more of it as the branches move more towards unmanned vehicles
and is now training enlisted RPA pilots.

That MOS is going to be attractive to a lot of cadets.
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2018, 06:05:28 PM »

In my experience, should a cadet join the Guard or the Reserve, they should immediately be transitioned to Senior Member. In all my years I've yet to meet a single "cadet" that was also a member of the Guard or Reserve that wasn't a colossal pain in the fourth point of contact.

YMMV.

What do you mean by "Fourth point of contact"?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,246

« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2018, 06:22:00 PM »

It's part of a proper PLF.

NIN?
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Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

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« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2018, 06:49:18 PM »

I'm starting to think that the military's bureaucracy is almost as bad as ours...

Oh no, CAP has NOTHING on the military bureaucracy. After all, the US military has had 242 years to perfect theirs.

243*

1775...

The United States didn't come into existence until July 4, 1776. You know, that declaration thing.

The Army recognizes their birthdate as 14 June 1775 as that is when the Continental Army was authorized enlistment of expert riflemen.  General Washington officially took command of the Continental Army on 03 July 1775, I believe. The Revolutionary War started April 19, 1775. Although the Congress of Confederation created the US Army on 03 June 1784 after the Continental Army was disbanded in 1783.

Interestingly, the National Guard recognizes their birthdate as 13 December 1636.  The Militia Act of 1792 recognizes this date as the official date for the "National Guard".  Although that the term National Guard did not come into existence until 1903, when it became nationally recognized.  Granted New York had their "National Guard" in 1824.   

https://history.army.mil/html/faq/birth.html
https://history.army.mil/html/faq/branches.html

My point is that The United States of America did not exist prior to July 4, 1776.

July 2*

Yes! July 2, Independence Day!


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Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #30 on: October 20, 2018, 01:20:44 PM »

It's part of a proper PLF.

NIN?

What?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #31 on: October 20, 2018, 01:41:18 PM »

PLF
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #32 on: October 20, 2018, 01:42:07 PM »

PLF

What is that?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #33 on: October 20, 2018, 02:39:42 PM »

PLF
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Color Guard Rifleman
Forum Regular

Posts: 100
Unit: GLR-MI-265

Grand Rapids Metro Cadet Squadron
« Reply #34 on: October 20, 2018, 02:43:33 PM »

PLF

What does that mean? What is a PLF?
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C/TSgt Killeen
GLR-MI-265 Cadet Public Affairs NCO                                        

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abdsp51
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Posts: 2,591
Unit: Classified

« Reply #35 on: October 20, 2018, 04:39:37 PM »

PLF

What does that mean? What is a PLF?

Let it go.
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Eclipse
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Posts: 29,246

« Reply #36 on: October 20, 2018, 05:18:42 PM »

To be fair, at least for me, a Google search required a scroll down the page, nearly 30% to get the the proper definition.

Who scrolls?
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LSThiker
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Posts: 1,843
Unit: Earth

« Reply #37 on: October 20, 2018, 05:22:59 PM »

What does that mean? What is a PLF?

It means:  Parachute Landing Fall

It is a sequence of events that Paratroopers follow, or hope to follow, upon landing from a parachute fall so as to minimize injury.  Unlike civilian parachutes, which designed to be a bit softer upon landing, military parachutes are designed to get the paratrooper from the aircraft to the ground in the shortest time possible without killing the soldier.  For the T-10 parachute, the fall rate was between 18-20 feet per second, which hurts and may injure you if the soldier tries to stop quickly on the feet.

Upon landing, the paratrooper essential rolls so as to transfer the energy to different parts of the body.  That goes:
1.  Balls of the feet
2.  Side of the calf
3.  Side of the thigh
4.  Side of the hip or butt
5.  Side of the back

As you notice, these are points of contact that the paratrooper makes with the ground.  If you look at number 4, the contact is with the butt.  So Fourth Point of Contact.  Please extrapolate the rest of the meaning from there.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

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« Reply #38 on: October 20, 2018, 05:59:26 PM »

^Spoilsport.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #39 on: October 20, 2018, 07:34:00 PM »

Since this thread seems to have landed on its ass, we'll just cart it off the field, and put it to bed.

Say bye bye.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
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C/WO, CAP, Ret
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