Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 09, 2018, 05:16:41 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: CAP Leave From Work
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: [1] Print
Author Topic: CAP Leave From Work  (Read 1719 times)
CFToaster
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: SER-FL-116

« on: October 02, 2018, 02:33:45 PM »

Florida, like many other states, has a law on the books requiring employers to give CAP members time off for training and missions. (Text of the law here: http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?mode=View%20Statutes&SubMenu=1&App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=civil+air+patrol&URL=0200-0299/0252/Sections/0252.55.html )

My employer has no policy allowing for CAP leave, and I'm being told that I need to use my banked time off for CAP activities. Does anyone's employer have a policy on CAP leave? Would you mind sharing it as an example for my employer?
Logged
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,563

« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2018, 02:40:24 PM »

Part of it would depend on how you present your need to be out of the office for CAP.

The other part is printing out the Florida law, as you have shown, and talking to your HR department about it, as they may just not understanding what CAP is like they might for, say, the National Guard.

I think 252.55(7)(a-c) is your big point of discussion.
Logged
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #2 on: October 02, 2018, 02:54:29 PM »

... I'm being told that I need to use my banked time off for CAP activities.

So, that sounds about normal to me. Under your Section 7:

"(7) An employer: (a) That employs 15 or more employees shall provide up to 15 days of unpaid Civil Air Patrol leave annually to an employee"

Unpaid being the specific term, and then the subsequent section 7(b) says that you MAY choose to use banked leave time (paid) or to take the time as unpaid, at your choice not the employers choice.

Is that not what you'd expect? That's pretty generous, I'd say.

V/r
Spam

Logged
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #3 on: October 02, 2018, 03:14:43 PM »

For Guard or Reserve duty you normally have to give your employer a copy of your orders to get the time off.
Logged
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,563

« Reply #4 on: October 02, 2018, 03:19:10 PM »

... I'm being told that I need to use my banked time off for CAP activities.

So, that sounds about normal to me. Under your Section 7:

"(7) An employer: (a) That employs 15 or more employees shall provide up to 15 days of unpaid Civil Air Patrol leave annually to an employee"

Unpaid being the specific term, and then the subsequent section 7(b) says that you MAY choose to use banked leave time (paid) or to take the time as unpaid, at your choice not the employers choice.

Is that not what you'd expect? That's pretty generous, I'd say.

V/r
Spam

I disagree.

May not require a Civil Air Patrol member returning to employment following Civil Air Patrol leave to use vacation, annual, compensatory, or similar leave for the period during which the member was on Civil Air Patrol leave

(7)(b) is pretty specific that they cannot require you to use your accrued benefits.

That can give you unpaid leave or paid leave, but not accrued compensatory off time.

You're also permitted to use your accrued time as you normally would. They can't deny you use of your accruals.


For Guard or Reserve duty you normally have to give your employer a copy of your orders to get the time off.

I would expect that as well. Just like you may have bereavement or sick time, your employer can request the proof.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #5 on: October 02, 2018, 04:46:38 PM »

Define "CAP Activity" - most states, at least the ones I've cared to look into, require "orders" or similar
to grant the leave.  I've gotten CAP "orders" exactly once - for Katrina.

What your state requires in regards to "orders" should be researched by you, however I would imagine
it is related to emergency services or situations.  In other words, you're not going to get "orders" for
an encampment, bivouac, or weekend AE activity, and certainly not for meetings.

There are two realities at work here - legal and practical.

Many large companies these days actively encourage employees to be community volunteers, up to and including
granting PTO for those (usually verified) activities.  Many, many others are either too small to entertain the idea,
or simply don't need to (for whatever reason), and aren't going to do anything they aren't forced to by law.

TL:DR - If you have to pull out a statute to keep your job because of CAP, you're probably better off >not<
even having the conversation, and simply use PTO like the majority of members.

If you're in a union and / or CBA situation, then all bets are off and contact your union rep.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 04:52:19 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #6 on: October 02, 2018, 04:50:04 PM »

Also, and while this should be self-evident it apparently needs to be reminded,
characterizing CAP service as "military", even if it fools your employer, is
highly risky at best and if you work for a government agency potentially
a criminal act, likely punishable by fines, termination, and maybe even jail time.

This PSA brought to you by "a dude who has seen this happen recently..."
Logged


FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,182

« Reply #7 on: October 02, 2018, 05:35:29 PM »

As both an employer and a CAP member, I would NOT allow "CAP Leave" from work as apart from personal or vacation time unless volunteering for an actual AFAM, with proof of a Participation Authorization Letter from the Region LO's office. I would probably allow unpaid leave for assisting in efforts for large CAP Corp. DR missions though...
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2018, 05:46:29 PM »

As both an employer and a CAP member, I would NOT allow "CAP Leave" from work as apart from personal or vacation time unless volunteering for an actual AFAM, with proof of a Participation Authorization Letter from the Region LO's office. I would probably allow unpaid leave for assisting in efforts for large CAP Corp. DR missions though...

Interesting.  In my state you'd be in hot water...

No "orders" are necessary, only certification from CAP.  So I guess encampments and the like could, potentially, fall under this.
In my state's act, I don't see anything that defines what an EE can take protected leave for, only the rules on advanced notification
and how long the leave can be.

"(a) Any employer, as defined in Section 5 of this Act, that employs between 15 and 50 employees shall provide up to 15 days of unpaid civil air patrol leave to an employee performing a civil air patrol mission, subject to the conditions set forth in this Section. Civil air patrol leave granted under this Act may consist of unpaid leave.

    (b) An employer, as defined in Section 5 of this Act, that employs more than 50 employees shall provide up to 30 days of unpaid civil air patrol leave to an employee performing a civil air patrol mission, subject to the conditions set forth in this Section. Civil air patrol leave granted under this Act may consist of unpaid leave."


"(c) The employee shall give at least 14 days' notice of the intended date upon which the civil air patrol leave will commence if leave will consist of 5 or more consecutive work days. When able, the employee shall consult with the employer to schedule the leave so as to not unduly disrupt the operations of the employer. Employees taking civil air patrol leave for less than 5 consecutive days shall give the employer advanced notice as is practical. The employer may require certification from the proper civil air patrol authority to verify the employee's eligibility for the civil air patrol leave requested.

    (d) An employee taking leave as provided under this Act shall not be required to have exhausted all accrued vacation leave, personal leave, compensatory leave, sick leave, disability leave, and any other leave that may be granted to the employee. "


Internal to CAP the term "mission" has a fairly specific definition (i.e. ES-related), however that's not really a legal definition,
and lots of encampments, NCSA, flight academies and other CAP activities have mission numbers assigned, so
even the pedantic would have a hard time refusing leave.
Logged


Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,204

« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2018, 07:42:54 PM »

In my career, I don't think I would have found the availability of unpaid leave for CAP very attractive. 

Too many bills, children, and expensive hobbies (like eating) to give up the 5-7% of my income necessary to cover my typical 3 weeks of CAP duty each year .  Like most folks, I voluntarily use vacation for CAP stuff.  Sometimes I could talk my employer into granting paid leave, but that was only a couple of times over 30 years.

So as a practical matter, the prohibition against requiring employees to use accrued vacation / CTO is interesting from a legal perspective, but really only applicable in the breathtakingly rare situation that a member would prefer to go without the income rather than get paid by using vacation.

But it's nice that the legislature is thinking of us in any event.

Logged
FW
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,182

« Reply #10 on: October 03, 2018, 03:28:41 PM »

""(c) The employee shall give at least 14 days' notice of the intended date upon which the civil air patrol leave will commence if leave will consist of 5 or more consecutive work days. When able, the employee shall consult with the employer to schedule the leave so as to not unduly disrupt the operations of the employer. Employees taking civil air patrol leave for less than 5 consecutive days shall give the employer advanced notice as is practical. The employer may require certification from the proper civil air patrol authority to verify the employee's eligibility for the civil air patrol leave requested."

This is the pertinent section, and the state where I conduct business has no such statute, however I would think of granting such leave with "proper authority" as I stated before. Having served in the military and CAP, having the privilege of holding leadership positions in both;  I surely understand the nature of the a member volunteering, and the non compulsive requirements of a CAP volunteer.  As an employer, I take that all into consideration.
And as Col Lee has stated, most can not afford to take unpaid leave for all the time spent on CAP "missions".  Vacation and other Paid time off suffices....  who has time for the beach anyway? ;D
Logged
RRLE
Seasoned Member

Posts: 492

« Reply #11 on: October 03, 2018, 08:49:51 PM »

Quote
b) An employer is not required to allow a Civil Air Patrol member to return to work upon the completion of his or her Civil Air Patrol leave if:
1. The employer’s circumstances have so changed as to make employment impossible or unreasonable;

The employer: "Well the employee took two weeks off and we distributed the work to other employees, who completed it without any extra expense, like overtime. So it is unreasonable to force us to retain an employee we obviously don't need."

Never give your employer an idea that you are dispensable.
Logged
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,329

« Reply #12 on: October 03, 2018, 09:25:55 PM »

Never give your employer an idea that you are dispensable.

+1 As always, unions and CBAs aside, anyone who needs to wave a statute in their boss's face
to get unpaid time off for a volunteer activity probably shouldn't be even considering the idea.

These fall into the categories "feel-good / meaningless" laws - everyone gets a shake-n-take, the governor
gets some pics with people in a uniform, and then at the road-level it doesn't mean much, because it's
pretty much unenforceable.
Logged


Pages: [1] Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  The Lobby  |  Topic: CAP Leave From Work
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.07 seconds with 25 queries.