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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations
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Author Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations  (Read 24636 times)
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 89

« Reply #260 on: September 06, 2018, 11:33:08 PM »

...They sell a non-standard, CAP-specific version of the ABU which should be suitable for all members to wear...
Should being the keyword there...
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Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,627

« Reply #261 on: September 09, 2018, 03:28:11 PM »

...They sell a non-standard, CAP-specific version of the ABU which should be suitable for all members to wear...
Should being the keyword there...
I've been wondering about this for a day or so. What is not suitable about them?

(I'm not challenging, I haven't worn the ABU yet, so I have no point of view when it comes to their wear.)
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,248

« Reply #262 on: September 09, 2018, 04:09:48 PM »

Nothing, except that VG ABUs are non mil-spec.  In fact they aren't even "ABUs", they are "CAP ABUs".

When compared side-by-side, they have a distinct pink hue, and the colors in general are more vibrant.

I say "should" be acceptable to members as since this is the official uniform source,
then it doesn't need to be available anywhere else, however those excited about
wear the ABU want to wear the same brands as the guys on TV, thus they want the "real thing"
and will purport a "shortage" will occur after the USAF adopts a new pattern.

Since they should be getting their uniforms from the official supplier, it's a non-issue
unless you want to interject tangential questions about what is worn and people's motivations.

VG seems very capable of ramping up pac-rim surplus production on anything CAP needs,
so "shortages" should be a thing.
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Lakeshore-CAP-Ret
Forum Regular

Posts: 128
Unit: W-MICH

« Reply #263 on: September 10, 2018, 06:04:14 PM »

The AF did not goto the OCP because the Army is already wearing it.  There is more to that decision.

Actually, that is the EXACT reason the Air Force went to it.

The ABU wasn't working and a replacement was desired. Adopting the OCP was seen as an economical way to do it since the Army had already spent the money needed to field it. And the Air Force had some experience wearing it already since by order of CENTCOM everybody in the AOR had to wear it.

More to it than that bro..


I read about the change in Stars and Strips. The AF needed a better field uniform, and it seemed a ‘no brainer’; cost, combat field use, and the AF can start issuing theses uniforms more quickly.


Why make this so mysterious? Cost, combat usage, availability.  Seems simply to me. Google AF and OCP. Get back with the class with what you find 😆
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MAJ DAVID J. D'ARCY, CAP (Ret) 8 Apr 2018
Former member of West Michigan Group

Dave's CAP Achievements by drc3david, on Flickr
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,300

« Reply #264 on: September 10, 2018, 06:52:23 PM »

The AF did not goto the OCP because the Army is already wearing it.  There is more to that decision.

Actually, that is the EXACT reason the Air Force went to it.

The ABU wasn't working and a replacement was desired. Adopting the OCP was seen as an economical way to do it since the Army had already spent the money needed to field it. And the Air Force had some experience wearing it already since by order of CENTCOM everybody in the AOR had to wear it.

More to it than that bro..


I read about the change in Stars and Strips. The AF needed a better field uniform, and it seemed a ‘no brainer’; cost, combat field use, and the AF can start issuing theses uniforms more quickly.


Why make this so mysterious? Cost, combat usage, availability.  Seems simply to me. Google AF and OCP. Get back with the class with what you find 😆
There is also those folks in DC who said no more newly designed service specific field uniforms.
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CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 161
Unit: MER

« Reply #265 on: September 10, 2018, 09:38:46 PM »

Actually, that is the EXACT reason the Air Force went to it.
The ABU wasn't working and a replacement was desired. Adopting the OCP was seen as an economical way to do it since the Army had already spent the money needed to field it. And the Air Force had some experience wearing it already since by order of CENTCOM everybody in the AOR had to wear it.
I read about the change in Stars and Strips. The AF needed a better field uniform, and it seemed a ‘no brainer’; cost, combat field use, and the AF can start issuing theses uniforms more quickly.
Why make this so mysterious? Cost, combat usage, availability.  Seems simply to me. Google AF and OCP. Get back with the class with what you find 😆

Yep.
And soon CAP will be wearing it too.
Going to looks awesome.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Gunsotsu
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #266 on: September 10, 2018, 09:57:41 PM »

Yep.
And soon CAP will be wearing it too.
Going to looks awesome.

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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,464
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #267 on: September 10, 2018, 10:03:01 PM »

Actually, that is the EXACT reason the Air Force went to it.
The ABU wasn't working and a replacement was desired. Adopting the OCP was seen as an economical way to do it since the Army had already spent the money needed to field it. And the Air Force had some experience wearing it already since by order of CENTCOM everybody in the AOR had to wear it.
I read about the change in Stars and Strips. The AF needed a better field uniform, and it seemed a ‘no brainer’; cost, combat field use, and the AF can start issuing theses uniforms more quickly.
Why make this so mysterious? Cost, combat usage, availability.  Seems simply to me. Google AF and OCP. Get back with the class with what you find 😆

Yep.
And soon CAP will be wearing it too.
Going to looks awesome.


"Soon" is relative. Based on my experience with uniform changes and transition times, and the recent change to ABUs, It could be until way into the 2020s before CAP sees OCPs.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Hawk200
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,627

« Reply #268 on: September 11, 2018, 06:40:12 PM »

Nothing, except that VG ABUs are non mil-spec.  In fact they aren't even "ABUs", they are "CAP ABUs".

When compared side-by-side, they have a distinct pink hue, and the colors in general are more vibrant.

So, CAP has it's own variation of "pinks."  ;D

I say "should" be acceptable to members as since this is the official uniform source,  then it doesn't need to be available anywhere else, however those excited about wear the ABU want to wear
the same brands as the guys on TV, thus they want the "real thing"and will purport a "shortage" will occur after the USAF adopts a new pattern.

Since they should be getting their uniforms from the official supplier, it's a non-issue unless you want to interject tangential questions about what is worn and people's motivations.
Many do want to wear "the Real Deal," and not what might be considered a "knock off." It can be a valid point of concern. I don't like the idea of a knockoff from a sole source.

VG seems very capable of ramping up pac-rim surplus production on anything CAP needs, so "shortages" should be a thing.
Not sure of Vanguard' sources on there products, so not sure what I think. I doubt Vanguard's ABUs meet anything near the same spec as Air Force ones.

I could see Vanguard wanting to extend wear on their sole source product. Not sure I like that idea either, especially with their history of harassing other suppliers. CAP would be better off going with military spec and standards. Vanguard will take a hit, but it's not like they're the best thing since sliced bread.

CAP really ended up with the short straw when it came to that deal.
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MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,932
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #269 on: September 11, 2018, 07:28:59 PM »

National Uniform Committee (NUC) stated they have no plans for asking the AF for the new uniforms. Even if it was authorized it wouldn’t be until ALL Air Force Members’s including Reserve, ROTC, and JROTC get theirs.
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,531

« Reply #270 on: September 11, 2018, 07:30:31 PM »

I've got a set of Propper (I think?) and a set of DLATS ABUs. I prefer the mil-spec quality (that's a first!). They're just the right comfort level (material-wise).

The pink hue looks funky to me. I always figured there was some slight variation to the fabric, but I'm also color deficient (so a lot of times that's me just accepting that my eyes are playing tricks). So it's not me after all.....


National Uniform Committee (NUC) stated they have no plans for asking the AF for the new uniforms. Even if it was authorized it wouldn’t be until ALL Air Force Members’s including Reserve, ROTC, and JROTC get theirs.

What?! No new uniforms?!?! But now what are we supposed to debate?!?!?!?!
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,714

« Reply #271 on: September 11, 2018, 07:53:27 PM »

Anything BUT uniforms!

Color of the sky in day and night.

Color of our planes.

Color of safety vests.

Sky's the limit!

 >:D


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Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,314

« Reply #272 on: September 11, 2018, 07:55:38 PM »

National Uniform Committee (NUC) stated they have no plans for asking the AF for the new uniforms. Even if it was authorized it wouldn’t be until ALL Air Force Members’s including Reserve, ROTC, and JROTC get theirs.

Mandatory wear date for Active Duty, Air Guard and Reserve is Sept 30, 2021.
A good chunk of the force already has this uniform because they've deployed in the past 5 years.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,248

« Reply #273 on: September 11, 2018, 08:36:49 PM »

A good chunk of the force already has this uniform because they've deployed in the past 5 years.

Which is, according to the tubes, causing it's own CAP-type controversy in that some of those early-issued
materials and patterns don't match the OCP of today, an maybe not what is ultimately the final pattern.

Nice to see sometimes that Big Brother has the same problems.
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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,464
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #274 on: September 11, 2018, 08:40:57 PM »

I could see Vanguard wanting to extend wear on their sole source product. Not sure I like that idea either, especially with their history of harassing other suppliers.
The Intellectual Property belongs to CAP, not Vanguard. CAP is driving the "harassment", not Vanguard.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Starbird
Member

Posts: 84
Unit: NER-NH-056

« Reply #275 on: September 11, 2018, 10:21:05 PM »

Anything BUT uniforms!

Color of the sky in day and night.

Color of our planes.

Color of safety vests.

Sky's the limit!

 >:D

I do concur, sir! >:D
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,314

« Reply #276 on: September 12, 2018, 12:51:50 AM »

A good chunk of the force already has this uniform because they've deployed in the past 5 years.

Which is, according to the tubes, causing it's own CAP-type controversy in that some of those early-issued
materials and patterns don't match the OCP of today, an maybe not what is ultimately the final pattern.

Nice to see sometimes that Big Brother has the same problems.

Actually not a problem. You're allowed to wear them until they become unserviceable. The only restriction is that the trousers and the blouse have to match.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,531

« Reply #277 on: September 12, 2018, 10:07:04 AM »

Anything BUT uniforms!

Color of the sky in day and night.

Color of our planes.

Color of safety vests.

Sky's the limit!

 >:D

I see what you did there
>_>
<_<

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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #278 on: September 12, 2018, 04:16:53 PM »

Anything BUT uniforms!

Color of the sky in day and night.

Color of our planes.

Color of safety vests.

Sky's the limit!

 >:D

I see what you did there
>_>
<_<



Does that mean Muh Space Force uniforms? hahaha.

So as we talked about earlier, I think some of the stuff that's being done over on the "Ma Blue" side can be adapted. I had this made by VG for a go bag, but here it is on that "CAP-OCP" in the manner I was suggesting.

See the same:


This type of badge wear modification could be done for an OCP-style corporate top as well like the TRU from Truspec.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 04:20:11 PM by DocJekyll » Logged
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,142
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #279 on: September 12, 2018, 04:42:12 PM »

Take off all 3 of those shoulder patches and continue to enforce weight & grooming and I'm okay with it for Cadets. Especially remove that subdued by all means, but clean it up and I would support it.

Every year that goes by, approaching my fourth decade in and the more posers I see, I grow more convinced that Air Force Style should be discontinued for adult members.

Vr
Spam
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations
 


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