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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations
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Author Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations  (Read 25195 times)
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,338

« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2018, 12:41:35 PM »

You can throw a GPS, cell phone, maps, writing materials like a notebook or even ELT shut-off notices.

Plus room for a tactical squirrel...

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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2018, 12:54:06 PM »

You can throw a GPS, cell phone, maps, writing materials like a notebook or even ELT shut-off notices.

Plus room for a tactical squirrel...



Yeah.... but he better have a CAPID card, his 101 and a proper uniform or I'm not letting him sign into the mission. ;D
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Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,023
Unit: of issue

« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2018, 02:58:37 PM »

You can throw a GPS, cell phone, maps, writing materials like a notebook or even ELT shut-off notices.

Plus room for a tactical squirrel...



Yeah.... but he better have a CAPID card, his 101 and a proper uniform or I'm not letting him sign into the mission. ;D

Or he better be legally obligated to sign a CAPF 9..
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,727

« Reply #43 on: August 09, 2018, 08:51:39 PM »

I can see why a squirrel would be allowed in a sortie, it knows the terrain better than the members. So terrain navigation. What other things will the squirrel do?


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Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #44 on: August 09, 2018, 09:04:21 PM »

Squirrels can find food buried beneath a foot of snow, so maybe...
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,659

« Reply #45 on: August 09, 2018, 09:27:57 PM »

I can see why a squirrel would be allowed in a sortie, it knows the terrain better than the members. So terrain navigation. What other things will the squirrel do?
Squirrels know the secret.    You got to have one on you in case you need to know the secret.    N00bs.   8)
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 859
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #46 on: August 10, 2018, 01:53:12 AM »

Squirrels can find food buried beneath a foot of snow, so maybe...

FIND food? In some places they ARE food.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
chuckmilam
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #47 on: August 10, 2018, 10:06:42 AM »

Squirrels can find food buried beneath a foot of snow, so maybe...

FIND food? In some places they ARE food.

Kentucky here: Can confirm.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 362

« Reply #48 on: August 10, 2018, 11:26:20 AM »

For the reasons the OP stated, the end of the line on ABUs is way closer than it was with BDUs.  It would be absolute willful ignorance to not start looking at the next step (and it may be happening at the NHQ level, that's way above my payless-grade).  I'd rather not be forced into wearing Vanguard's third-world knockoffs once the real deals run out, all because CAP likes to wring their hands at the prospect of change.

Here's how I'd do OCPs for CAP (and move the BBDU to a ACU-style in dark blue with matching layout like https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28277303_2276907562535837_6623124939621139508_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80a846fa3df35f87d2624efdf6a8cd9e&oe=5BFDB39E  ):

Name/CAP tapes:

velcro required for cadets, optional for seniors (cadets go through uniforms quicker, make this easier).

Grade:

Cadet enlisted grades continue with pin-on collar chevrons to standardize with the blues shirt, the velcro square on the chest can be either blank or a CAP cutout.

Cadet officers, flight officers, SM NCOs and officers all wear embroidered grade on chest square.  With the exception of SM NCOs, grade is also worn on the patrol cap in the current manner.

Sleeves: One patch per sleeve.  2 per sleeve makes it look even more like a NASCAR suit.

Left sleeve: Wing or higher patch (optional), NCSA or misc patch

Right sleeve: full color US flag (if the AF is going to the subdued one, we need to mirror it with a full-color one), organizational patch, NCSA or misc patch

Badges: cut down on what is allowed to only occupational-style badges and the commander badge, worn IAW AFI 36-2903.

Boots: black.  I hate them, but it is what it is and it won't look as weird with the darker OCP than the lighter ABU.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #49 on: August 10, 2018, 11:55:50 AM »

For the reasons the OP stated, the end of the line on ABUs is way closer than it was with BDUs.  It would be absolute willful ignorance to not start looking at the next step (and it may be happening at the NHQ level, that's way above my payless-grade).  I'd rather not be forced into wearing Vanguard's third-world knockoffs once the real deals run out, all because CAP likes to wring their hands at the prospect of change.

Here's how I'd do OCPs for CAP (and move the BBDU to a ACU-style in dark blue with matching layout like https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28277303_2276907562535837_6623124939621139508_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80a846fa3df35f87d2624efdf6a8cd9e&oe=5BFDB39E  ):

Name/CAP tapes:

velcro required for cadets, optional for seniors (cadets go through uniforms quicker, make this easier).

Grade:

Cadet enlisted grades continue with pin-on collar chevrons to standardize with the blues shirt, the velcro square on the chest can be either blank or a CAP cutout.

Cadet officers, flight officers, SM NCOs and officers all wear embroidered grade on chest square.  With the exception of SM NCOs, grade is also worn on the patrol cap in the current manner.

Sleeves: One patch per sleeve.  2 per sleeve makes it look even more like a NASCAR suit.

Left sleeve: Wing or higher patch (optional), NCSA or misc patch

Right sleeve: full color US flag (if the AF is going to the subdued one, we need to mirror it with a full-color one), organizational patch, NCSA or misc patch

Badges: cut down on what is allowed to only occupational-style badges and the commander badge, worn IAW AFI 36-2903.

Boots: black.  I hate them, but it is what it is and it won't look as weird with the darker OCP than the lighter ABU.

Why have the cadets use the pin on grade on the collars?  The velcro squares is much easier and cheaper. No cluchbacks to lose.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 362

« Reply #50 on: August 10, 2018, 12:00:49 PM »

Because then they can use one set across blues and utilities, which is cheaper overall.

And unless someone can talk Vanguard into making embroidered squares for each grade (and if they can do that maybe the SM NCOs can get the same thing) you’re going to end up pinning rank on the blank square which results in wearing them out faster as the pins break off.
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #51 on: August 10, 2018, 12:30:33 PM »

For the reasons the OP stated, the end of the line on ABUs is way closer than it was with BDUs.  It would be absolute willful ignorance to not start looking at the next step (and it may be happening at the NHQ level, that's way above my payless-grade).  I'd rather not be forced into wearing Vanguard's third-world knockoffs once the real deals run out, all because CAP likes to wring their hands at the prospect of change.

Here's how I'd do OCPs for CAP (and move the BBDU to a ACU-style in dark blue with matching layout like https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28277303_2276907562535837_6623124939621139508_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80a846fa3df35f87d2624efdf6a8cd9e&oe=5BFDB39E  ):

Name/CAP tapes:

velcro required for cadets, optional for seniors (cadets go through uniforms quicker, make this easier).

Grade:

Cadet enlisted grades continue with pin-on collar chevrons to standardize with the blues shirt, the velcro square on the chest can be either blank or a CAP cutout.

Cadet officers, flight officers, SM NCOs and officers all wear embroidered grade on chest square.  With the exception of SM NCOs, grade is also worn on the patrol cap in the current manner.

Sleeves: One patch per sleeve.  2 per sleeve makes it look even more like a NASCAR suit.

Left sleeve: Wing or higher patch (optional), NCSA or misc patch

Right sleeve: full color US flag (if the AF is going to the subdued one, we need to mirror it with a full-color one), organizational patch, NCSA or misc patch

Badges: cut down on what is allowed to only occupational-style badges and the commander badge, worn IAW AFI 36-2903.

Boots: black.  I hate them, but it is what it is and it won't look as weird with the darker OCP than the lighter ABU.

Why have the cadets use the pin on grade on the collars?  The velcro squares is much easier and cheaper. No cluchbacks to lose.

I think he was referring to continuing to use the metal pins, but place them on the blank blue square and place the rank on the chest same as everyone else.

I do like the idea of moving to the newer pattern for the corporate, but I'd imagine wed likely get some pushback from members who dont want to go get new corporates either. I think those who wear both corporate utilities and air force utilities is a fairly small niche. That's the only reason I hadnt suggested that. If we went that way though it may be easier and more consistent for everyone.
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Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 362

« Reply #52 on: August 10, 2018, 12:44:43 PM »

For the reasons the OP stated, the end of the line on ABUs is way closer than it was with BDUs.  It would be absolute willful ignorance to not start looking at the next step (and it may be happening at the NHQ level, that's way above my payless-grade).  I'd rather not be forced into wearing Vanguard's third-world knockoffs once the real deals run out, all because CAP likes to wring their hands at the prospect of change.

Here's how I'd do OCPs for CAP (and move the BBDU to a ACU-style in dark blue with matching layout like https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/28277303_2276907562535837_6623124939621139508_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=80a846fa3df35f87d2624efdf6a8cd9e&oe=5BFDB39E  ):

Name/CAP tapes:

velcro required for cadets, optional for seniors (cadets go through uniforms quicker, make this easier).

Grade:

Cadet enlisted grades continue with pin-on collar chevrons to standardize with the blues shirt, the velcro square on the chest can be either blank or a CAP cutout.

Cadet officers, flight officers, SM NCOs and officers all wear embroidered grade on chest square.  With the exception of SM NCOs, grade is also worn on the patrol cap in the current manner.

Sleeves: One patch per sleeve.  2 per sleeve makes it look even more like a NASCAR suit.

Left sleeve: Wing or higher patch (optional), NCSA or misc patch

Right sleeve: full color US flag (if the AF is going to the subdued one, we need to mirror it with a full-color one), organizational patch, NCSA or misc patch

Badges: cut down on what is allowed to only occupational-style badges and the commander badge, worn IAW AFI 36-2903.

Boots: black.  I hate them, but it is what it is and it won't look as weird with the darker OCP than the lighter ABU.

Why have the cadets use the pin on grade on the collars?  The velcro squares is much easier and cheaper. No cluchbacks to lose.

I think he was referring to continuing to use the metal pins, but place them on the blank blue square and place the rank on the chest same as everyone else.

I do like the idea of moving to the newer pattern for the corporate, but I'd imagine wed likely get some pushback from members who dont want to go get new corporates either. I think those who wear both corporate utilities and air force utilities is a fairly small niche. That's the only reason I hadnt suggested that. If we went that way though it may be easier and more consistent for everyone.

True, but if you give it a 4-5 year phase-in, those members probably need to be buying new uniforms anyway.
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Dwight Dutton
Forum Regular

Posts: 155

« Reply #53 on: August 10, 2018, 01:25:54 PM »

I do like the idea of moving to the newer pattern for the corporate, but I'd imagine wed likely get some pushback from members who dont want to go get new corporates either. I think those who wear both corporate utilities and air force utilities is a fairly small niche.

I wear both, mainly dependent on whether or not I am working with cadets.  The BBDU are more comfortable.

If you can find OCP style uniforms in plain blue, please tell me where.
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 181

« Reply #54 on: August 10, 2018, 01:57:51 PM »

I do like the idea of moving to the newer pattern for the corporate, but I'd imagine wed likely get some pushback from members who dont want to go get new corporates either. I think those who wear both corporate utilities and air force utilities is a fairly small niche.

I wear both, mainly dependent on whether or not I am working with cadets.  The BBDU are more comfortable.

If you can find OCP style uniforms in plain blue, please tell me where.

I love how comfy the OCP's are. They definitely were the right choice for the air force and army.
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Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,338

« Reply #55 on: August 10, 2018, 02:11:02 PM »

If you can find OCP style uniforms in plain blue, please tell me where.

I have them, they are great, I got them from BDU.com a bunch of years ago,
and they were called "TacBUs".

Unfortunayely bdu.com isn't a "thing" anymore, apparently, so I have to find my old order,
or check the tags.

I wear the pants on the bike because of the lower pockets, and use the shirt as a light jacket.

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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 362

« Reply #56 on: August 10, 2018, 02:41:50 PM »

I just know the F-35 heritage team wears dark blue ACU-style uniforms.  No idea what brand.
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CFToaster
Recruit

Posts: 14
Unit: SER-FL-116

« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2018, 04:17:41 PM »

Navy blue tops and bottoms on the ACU/OCP pattern are sold by Propper under the Tac.u brand.
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jayleswo
Forum Regular

Posts: 131
Unit: PCR-CA-001

« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2018, 07:35:20 PM »

I like the thoughtful discussion on this topic. Rather than comment on whether CAP should adopt the ACU/OCP pattern, I would offer my opinion on some of the uniform accouterments. I do think appearance could be enhanced by adopting the same OCP pattern background for insignia that Army and Air Force wear on this uniform. The navy blue with silver thread we have now for our field uniforms is an improvement over the ultramarine blue with white thread. But, I think it would look odd on OCP. I think the cloth background really should just match the color/pattern of the field uniform. Dark Blue for the BBDU. OCP for the new ACU/OCP uniform.

Distinctiveness from active-duty could be satisfied by simply using white thread for the lettering on the branch and name tapes and other insignia on the OCP pattern background. Grade insignia would be in white (or gold) on OCP with "CAP" above on the grade tab (or blank with metal insignia for Cadets and Cadet Officers). For additional distinctiveness, use the CAP Command Patch (already available with velcro) in full color on one shoulder. Not sure we really an American Flag patch since we don't deploy leaving plenty of space for other patches as needed.
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John Aylesworth, Lt Col CAP
IC Coordinator, HQ CAWG
SAR/DR MP, Master Observer
Earhart #1139 FEB 1982
supertigerCH
Forum Regular

Posts: 152

« Reply #59 on: August 11, 2018, 01:34:48 PM »

I do think appearance could be enhanced by adopting the same OCP pattern background for insignia that Army and Air Force wear on this uniform. The navy blue with silver thread we have now for our field uniforms is an improvement over the ultramarine blue with white thread. But, I think it would look odd on OCP. I think the cloth background really should just match the color/pattern of the field uniform. Dark Blue for the BBDU. OCP for the new ACU/OCP uniform.

That would certainly look good, and professional.  Either that, or at least have the nametapes/CAPtapes  on the OCP uniform be a better blending color, something like olive green, or similar.  The lettering would still be silver/white of course.

I do agree that while the dark (Air Force) blue looks great on the BBDU and BDU woodland pattern, it doesn't quite blend as well with the new OCP pattern.

Having said all that, since CAP just recently changed name tape color a few years ago (which was an improvement)... I reckon that something like this probably wont happen until quite some time in the future.  For now... at least we can all still be happy for the improvement that we've been able to get.
« Last Edit: August 11, 2018, 01:40:22 PM by supertigerCH » Logged
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Uniform Change Discussion - ABU's, OCP's and other considerations
 


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