New Uniforms, use Boy Scouts style

[Hawk200]

While there are a few isolated local officials who "have it in" for CAP for various reasons, both good and bad, I am totally convinced that the major reason we don't get called on missions where we could actually be of service is that the local officials don't understand our capabilities and how to request us. 

From what I've seen, this isn't a matter of just viewpoint, it's fact. I think I'm gonna try to work that angle from where I am. It wouldn't hurt to have missions more often. Not to mention the public exposure would only help on the recruiting side.

[SARPilotNY]

Green and Khaki is a common color combo,  SO, USFS and more.  I really don't care as long as it looks right, professional and uniform.
The image we create by a sharp troops is the focus.  Ever heard of CAP being called the "rag tag army"?  If we look and act professional, maybe we would garner more respect and "business".

[Hawk200]

If we look and act professional, maybe we would garner more respect and "business".

Bingo. That's the issue. The clothes you wear are irrelevant. I drive pizza for a living, and most people can tell by looking at me that I'm military. It's about attention to detail, a neat appearance, and bearing. If people know what I am by the way I present myself, then the clothes don't matter.

Present a professional appearance yourself. It will rub off. Challenge others to look as good as you do. It makes a difference.

As for green and khaki, they may be common colors, but they are not Civil Air Patrol colors. Noone will look at a green and khaki uniform and think CAP. They will think Boy Scouts, they will think Forestry, they will think Park Ranger. And that throws everything we are out the door.

[SARPilotNY]

I am in my early fifties, my annual required fitness test puts me in my late 20's...compare that to some of our members that are younger, heavier, smoke and pull an oxygen tank around a mission base.  Image...
My point again is how others see CAP and than I wonder why they may not take us seriously.  Can I get a large cheese?

[Hawk200]

I am in my early fifties, my annual required fitness test puts me in my late 20's...compare that to some of our members that are younger, heavier, smoke and pull an oxygen tank around a mission base.  Image...
My point again is how others see CAP and than I wonder why they may not take us seriously.  Can I get a large cheese?

Changing the uniform will not solve that. They will still be heavier, smoking, and pulling an oxygen tank around. The problem is human nature, not the clothes. Yes, people will see some members of CAP like that.

The example you set will raise the standard. If people meet you first, and you present a professional image, they will start expecting that standard. They will also question the lazier, heavier smokers on why they don't meet that standard. It's peer pressure, but it's in a positive aspect.

[Pumbaa]

Lest anyone forget....

We are the ones that rescue the scouts when they get lost!!!

Let them have their own uniform, it makes it that much easier to find them!!!

CAP already has servicable uniforms, we just have too many on the Senior side.

[LtCol White]

Green and Khaki is a common color combo,  SO, USFS and more.  I really don't care as long as it looks right, professional and uniform.
The image we create by a sharp troops is the focus.  Ever heard of CAP being called the "rag tag army"?  If we look and act professional, maybe we would garner more respect and "business".

You think changing uniforms is the solution? Why not just enforce the current uniform regulations more and have folks wearing it properly? Do u think they wouldn't look like a rag tag boy scout, SO, or USFS? Its not WHAT is being worn but HOW its being worn.

The answer is to stay in the USAF uniforms and ensure compliance with regulations. Then you have the professional image combined with the USAF look.

[Ned]

What the sheriff's and states see so often in CAP are the cadets and think of us as an explorer post.  Image!  We need to change our image!  Uniforms again?  There was a high profile missing attorney mission in Pheonix last year that made headlines in the news.  The picture in the paper of CAP was 5 or 6 cadets drilling infront of a WWII tent.  Could we have presented a better image? 

Ahhh cadet bashing!   

That'll help.

Hide those pesky kids somewhere so we can get on with The Saving of Lives.

After all, ES is the One True Mission, and should be the One True Image we present to world.

[Pumbaa]

Yep.. I wood shur luv to swich two a boyscout uniform!



Dang.. dem's gals wood be flocking two me!

[RogueLeader]

After all, ES is the One True Mission

The charter changed? Last I checked, we had three equal missions.

[SARPilotNY]

Green and Khaki is a common color combo,  SO, USFS and more.  I really don't care as long as it looks right, professional and uniform.
The image we create by a sharp troops is the focus.  Ever heard of CAP being called the "rag tag army"?  If we look and act professional, maybe we would garner more respect and "business".

You think changing uniforms is the solution? Why not just enforce the current uniform regulations more and have folks wearing it properly? Do u think they wouldn't look like a rag tag boy scout, SO, or USFS? Its not WHAT is being worn but HOW its being worn.

The answer is to stay in the USAF uniforms and ensure compliance with regulations. Then you have the professional image combined with the USAF look.

Now you get it...enforce the standards...but that takes leadership and as fuzy says, examples.

[SARPilotNY]

Yep.. I wood shur luv to swich two a boyscout uniform!



Dang.. dem's gals wood be flocking two me!

Now that's hot!  I have great legs that I could show off!
We have solved the Summer uniform, how about one for Winter?

[RogueLeader]

Ready. . . . Aim. . . . . . . . . . wait for it. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Hawk200]

Now you get it...enforce the standards...but that takes leadership and as fuzy says, examples.

One thing I learned a long time ago was that you didn't have to be in command to be a leader. I'm literally the only senior member male in my unit that wears the military uniforms. And considering that most of our cadets are male, I have to set a standard. Which I do.

From what I've heard around our wing, our cadets tend to be the best in appearance whenever they show up. Not sound like I'm tooting my own horn, but I am partly responsible for that. And I'm just the personnel officer, I'm not even really active with the cadet side of the house.

[shorning]

We have solved the Summer uniform, how about one for Winter?

I thought that was the winter uniform?!? (says the guy living in Hawaii... )

[ColonelJack]

After all, ES is the One True Mission

The charter changed? Last I checked, we had three equal missions.

I think Ned was being sarcastic toward SARPilotNY, who was making comments about our appearance again.

Jack

[Pumbaa]

Well tell me the BSA does not have the same issues with uniforms...

Fat and Fuzzy,          Fat,                 Fat &Fuzzy,            Fit,              FAT & FUZZY!!


Yeah let's switch to BSA uniforms!!!  NOT!

[SARMedTech]

The BSA apparently has trouble deciding on color and cut of trousers as well, so its not just us with our greys.

First of all, if we removed all of the BSA nonsense with SARPilot has inserted and so many of us (including myself) have allowed ourselves to get baited by, this thread might actually go somewhere and have a chance at being productive. We recently heard alot of clearing of throats after MG Pineda's letter about civility (or else!) and then we have someone who comes out of nowhere, gives us alot of WIWAC nonsense and suddenly we are all at it again.. Here are just some facts, along with some very simple solutions.

1. The greys can look pretty rag-tag when you look down a row of officers. In my experience so far, no because they are not well kept or tattered but because of the differences in dye-lots, manufacturers, cloths and colors. These are the moments where people follow the regulations, but so many dont stop to see where the regs fall short. No significant mention of cut (can be plane, pleated, straight-front, etc) and I have found no mention of shade other than GREY so we end up with salt-and-pepper business slacks, grey work trousers, grey EMT pants with the gear loops and cargo pockets, and then of course the shirts....Why dont we all get together and say, here is the manufacturer we will use for the trousers, this one for shirts and this one for shoes. The big problem is that when NHQ makes the decisions for us, but when we are left to make them ourselves, well...not a very good result. Its a simple fix. We arent trying to agree on a cure for cancer, just a uniform. Lets get a single manufacturer that can supply both the fit members that chose to wear greys and the larger members who chose them as their option.

2. Same with the white/blues...If Corporate insists on one uniform for the fat and fuzzy and one for the just fuzzy, then everything comes from one supplier that can supply for all who chose the corporates. In fact, since what I hear is that the Greys are the far preferred Corporate uniform anyway, lets just get rid of the Blues. I know they are the "fit but fuzzy" crowds of saying i could wear AF Blues but chose to make a statement with my facial hair, but, meh, on that. Greys it is and out with the Corporate Semi-Blues altogether.  There, now for the AF-looking, yet not AF style we have one uniform, from on supplier than can work for all who dont wear the Mama Blues. Also, lets allow the flight cap or service cap for the Greys. Stupid not to, no reason for it.

3. The next major problem seems to be grooming. OK. Here we can easily solve the problem by taking a page directly from the USCGAUX...if you chose to wear a mustache or beard, it can only have "x" amount of bulk, "x" amount of length, etc. We keep the "no further than the corner of the mouth" rule for mustaches and no "eccentricities". If you wish to be eccentric, wear the blazer, here again with a single color, cut, etc of trouser, a single tie, etc. Whats the problem folks? Before you all tell me what it is, Ill save you the trouble of telling me the problem...there isnt one. Grooming standards will be "XYZ" and any other variances will wear the blazer combo. There.

It would be silly to comment on SARPilots disruptive and long winded disturbances of late and then create one of my own. What we have here is a tempest in a tea-pot. We can have the various uniform combinations for Corporate vs. Airforce, eliminating some of the sillier ones. If some of us are in Grey Corporates, then we all are. If we take a National vote (notice we dont have to involve NHQ for the most part, we just get a mandate from the Membership (gasp, what an idea) and do it).

My dear friends, let us no longer live in fear of NHQ. Let a consensus of Wing leadership based on the majority input from Squadron plus Group be the rule, thats what we submit to National. We have leadership (and not just TP) who sometimes have trouble making decisions and when they do they seem to have trouble making decisions that make sense. So lets help them out. Lets tell them what we think is acceptable. I would issue a challenge for the various brass lower than NHQ to send me their hard and fast decisions which we can then send up the chain, but I know we cant get that kind of cohesive action...YET. Here we need to listen to SARPilot a little. Believe me, it hurts me more to say it than it does most of you to hear it. Let this past Independence Day serve as the "fire bell in the night" signaling the 21st century of CAP. If there is a patch, badge, insignia that the majority of us dont like, the we issue a "People's Mandate" and our own phase out date, and after that they disappear. Since there are very few National REQUIREMENTS about what badges will be worn, which ones will not, etc. lets us decide for ourselves.

In those photos of the 50 mission crushers, we saw some uniform variations. But what was the big thing you also saw in the photo, if you look past the greased hair, and the haze of cigarette smoke and the jaunty tilts of time. You saw unity. I tell you something...If the CAP of the Iraq War era were given the kinds of extraordinarily important taskings as our WWII counterparts, you would see whats really important. Cohesion would come about all of its own accord. Squadron pride would be restored as Squadrons used their best artists to develop Squadron patches and perhaps even names and wore them with pride rather than just looking on it as one more thing that had to be done, one more monotonous task. Lets set a date for such patches and starting using them. The reason we feel that it all comes down on high from Wing and NHQ is largely because we let it. Those 50 mission crushers "the people, not the caps) have a great deal to teach us. They were tasked with operations that they could see had patriotic importance. When things like Katrina and 9/11 happen, we should all be clamoring to NHQ to get us taskings from the Wing level in the effected areas and we should be flocking to help. I was a part of the "immediate recovery" for both that horrible act of terror and the devistation of nature in the Gulf Coast. Lets make use of those members who pay dues but dont do much else. Lets create a national website for the Triple Zero Ghost Squadrons and let them have their own taskings. We can use their dues and if they wish to do nothing else, they can serve as members who have put in their time or are meeting the level of committment that makes them comfortable. So lets put them outside stores and malls on the Anniversary of the founding of CAP and let them collect donations and set up tables explaining to people what CAP does. Membership would serge as a whole new generation of pilots, ground pounders, etc learned that CAP is what those of us involved already know it is...a viable, important part not only of an Amazing American Culture, but also a living breathing entity that serves when necessity calls. Lets establish a National Blood Drive in cooperation with the Red Cross, with whom we work already. A week of CAP members giving blood and then CAP pilots flying it all over the country to where its needed most. Lets let the public see is in our blue coveralls adopting a highway and helping to make America more beautiful and safe by picking up dangerous and unsightly roadside trash and running a National CAP Recycling Campaign to raise money. Imagine what would happen if each of the 65,000 members picked up one bag of aluminum cans and other recyclables and then gave the funds to their Squadron. Imagine how that would empower the Squadron to get those things they need and in getting more, newer and better equipment...in establishing a Uniform Fund, where once a year, those who could not afford it got a set of uniforms. Thats us supporting our own and establishing an esprit d'corps. Im telling you, this spirit of unity would spread and we would soon have on our hands a CAP the likes of which had never been seen. Leaner, meaner, better equipped because not so many members had to go broke in order to volunteer. Imagine a ready-room in each Squadron's HQ...perhaps, nothing more than a closet at first, with a rack of radios that meet at least our minimum standards. Stocked 24 gear that members just had to grab and go. A wrack of field uniforms. Donated flash-lights and other refurbished equipment, donated by membership who no longer needs the items and an American Public who knows what the Civil Air Patrol is just as they know the United States Marine Corps and the Army and the Navy and Air Force and Coast Guard. Lets end this petty bickering over who changed what name without the authorization and be proud to be America's Civil Air Patrol and to let this new name, if only on name tapes, reflect our sense of pride in the service that we provide for our country. I promise you, we can find a new sense of purpose. A team that goes out to shut off ELTs the middle of the night is just as important as a SAR operation. Ground pounders are just as proud as pilots as we all work together to do what we were chartered by Congress to do in the first place...To serve at the pleasure and necessity of the American People. Lets end all this petty bickering and infighting. If you have issues with National Command, the time will come when those who weaken us will be gone. But lets not let the public we serve see us fighting over uniforms and bashing our commanders with hateful nicknames and angry cartoons. We need to be Semper Vigilans within and without....within to make ourselves better able to serve and without to be better, more well equipped public servants when the call comes. Lets start a new era of vigilance where good enough is no longer the status quo and where each year we get stronger and better equipped to handle to  OUR Mission for America. Semper Vigilans and thanks for listening.

[SARPilotNY]

What is sad about the "group" boy scout picture is that could have been a shot of a CAP ground team, or squadron or mission base, almost anything but an encampment.  My whole goal here is to bring to light what I see all the time throughout the nation when I see CAP.  My partners at work know I am a member and wonder why the USAF Aux looks so rag tag.  It's embarrassing at times to me and it is hard to hold my head up in pride.
CAP cadets have few choices in uniforms and no choices in grooming and fitness, do we worry that we are losing cadets?  The armed forces have standards, help members that fall away from them and than can them.  Enough of that, I think everyone knows my feelings.  Just one thought about that great boy scouts shot, if your first impression of CAP as a newly elected sheriff that was thinking about using CAP as part of your counties disaster plan or SAR plan...what would it be?  Would you take CAP seriously?  If not, what would it take to change that impression?  Just for fun...just respond to these two questions.  I think that is why CAP is not seen as a resource in much of the country. 
PS. SAR MED TECH...good reply above..well said!

[SARPilotNY]

Hey Fuzzy...next time I am in your town..lets go have a beer...your funny!  Great pic, I am the first one on the right.