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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Air Force inches closer to warrant officers: Could they fix the pilot crisis?
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Author Topic: Air Force inches closer to warrant officers: Could they fix the pilot crisis?  (Read 4949 times)
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #40 on: April 25, 2018, 10:35:15 AM »


Or....and I'm just tossing this out there, you could always remain as a SMWOG, and not even bother participating in the PD program. Want to do ES or CP or AE exclusively and not deal with other stuff? Just don't....

CAP is vastly different from active duty military because active duty officers are either promoted or separated. Staying a captain (for example) indefinitely is not an option. Since promotion depends on increasing leadership responsibility, there is an argument for a path for technical specialists who continually improve their technical expertise without commanding larger and larger groups.

In CAP, you can remain a captain indefinitely, so there is no need to create a separate path for those who want to concentrate on increasing technical skills rather than command.

I agree with you but the perception from outside is that if they see someone with Lt Col ranks, for example, that they have a certain level of knowledge and experience.  As you have correctly stated, knowledge/experience/ability are not tied to CAP rank.  This can create problems (or at least a negative view of CAP) when dealing with outside agencies. 
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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,873

« Reply #41 on: April 25, 2018, 10:42:30 AM »


Or....and I'm just tossing this out there, you could always remain as a SMWOG, and not even bother participating in the PD program. Want to do ES or CP or AE exclusively and not deal with other stuff? Just don't....

CAP is vastly different from active duty military because active duty officers are either promoted or separated. Staying a captain (for example) indefinitely is not an option. Since promotion depends on increasing leadership responsibility, there is an argument for a path for technical specialists who continually improve their technical expertise without commanding larger and larger groups.

In CAP, you can remain a captain indefinitely, so there is no need to create a separate path for those who want to concentrate on increasing technical skills rather than command.

I agree with you but the perception from outside is that if they see someone with Lt Col ranks, for example, that they have a certain level of knowledge and experience.  As you have correctly stated, knowledge/experience/ability are not tied to CAP rank.  This can create problems (or at least a negative view of CAP) when dealing with outside agencies.

I've done a boatload of high profile/high visibility missions. Never had that issue. When Second Lieutenant Noneck was introduced in the EOC as the CAP IC, that was it. It didn't matter if we were dealing with the State Police or the NG or whatever.

EDIT: And this goes back to the days when beards in BDUs wore no rank. It doesn't matter to the pros who is wearing what on their collar. CAP isn't alone in this. I worked for a federal agency that had a DR responsibility. During one of our missions, we had a really low ranking guy as the OIC. Why? He had the experience, training, and was qualified.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 10:47:51 AM by THRAWN » Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #42 on: April 25, 2018, 12:01:15 PM »


Or....and I'm just tossing this out there, you could always remain as a SMWOG, and not even bother participating in the PD program. Want to do ES or CP or AE exclusively and not deal with other stuff? Just don't....

CAP is vastly different from active duty military because active duty officers are either promoted or separated. Staying a captain (for example) indefinitely is not an option. Since promotion depends on increasing leadership responsibility, there is an argument for a path for technical specialists who continually improve their technical expertise without commanding larger and larger groups.

In CAP, you can remain a captain indefinitely, so there is no need to create a separate path for those who want to concentrate on increasing technical skills rather than command.

I agree with you but the perception from outside is that if they see someone with Lt Col ranks, for example, that they have a certain level of knowledge and experience.  As you have correctly stated, knowledge/experience/ability are not tied to CAP rank.  This can create problems (or at least a negative view of CAP) when dealing with outside agencies.

I've done a boatload of high profile/high visibility missions. Never had that issue. When Second Lieutenant Noneck was introduced in the EOC as the CAP IC, that was it. It didn't matter if we were dealing with the State Police or the NG or whatever.

EDIT: And this goes back to the days when beards in BDUs wore no rank. It doesn't matter to the pros who is wearing what on their collar. CAP isn't alone in this. I worked for a federal agency that had a DR responsibility. During one of our missions, we had a really low ranking guy as the OIC. Why? He had the experience, training, and was qualified.

I was mainly talking about the CAP members with high rank and low experience/knowledge.  I also said that it "can" create a problem, not that it "will."  I have seen rank not make a difference at all to outside agencies and I have seen outside agencies really look down their noses at CAP because the CAP Lt Col/Maj had next to no clue what they are doing.  A person with high rank in any organization is expected to know what they are doing (from the outside looking in).

We can debate this all day but until you can say that rank has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside then what I said is still true.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,955

« Reply #43 on: April 25, 2018, 03:15:00 PM »

We can debate this all day but until you can say that rank has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside then what I said is still true.

Grade has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside.  It is, at most, a blip when people are
introduced, assuming the outsider has a clue about what grade is supposed to mean.

From that point forward, it's all about performance an attitude.
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #44 on: April 25, 2018, 03:16:40 PM »

We can debate this all day but until you can say that rank has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside then what I said is still true.

Grade has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside.  It is, at most, a blip when people are
introduced, assuming the outsider has a clue about what grade is supposed to mean.

From that point forward, it's all about performance an attitude.

I'm glad you can make such an absolute statement.  I have seen different.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,955

« Reply #45 on: April 25, 2018, 04:00:30 PM »

We can debate this all day but until you can say that rank has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside then what I said is still true.

Grade has zero influence on how CAP is viewed by the outside.  It is, at most, a blip when people are
introduced, assuming the outsider has a clue about what grade is supposed to mean.

From that point forward, it's all about performance an attitude.

I'm glad you can make such an absolute statement.  I have seen different.

I won't argue you haven't, I've had experience to work with plenty of yahoo's
in all manner of agencies and orgs, in a CAP context and otherwise, but that just
means that the situation wasn't characterized properly from the start.

Any agency that cares about a CAP member's grade for more then a 1-step "hm"
probably doesn't understand CAP well enough to work with.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2018, 04:16:38 PM by Eclipse » Logged


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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: Air Force inches closer to warrant officers: Could they fix the pilot crisis?
 


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