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Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 223

« on: April 07, 2018, 06:39:28 PM »

I am guessing the answer is no, but if the answer is yes, I am looking for verification.

For a training FTX, can the missing person used for a litter carry be an adult, military spouse, non-CAP member (with their verbal and written consent and enthusiasm)?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2018, 06:48:04 PM by Cadetter » Logged
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husker
Forum Regular

Posts: 154
Unit: NHQ-007

« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2018, 07:37:15 PM »

Don't see why not.  I use non-CAP members as "victims" or "actor's guild" quite often in my activities.
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Michael Long, Lt Col CAP
Deputy Director, National Emergency Services Academy
nesa.cap.gov
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Geber
Member

Posts: 68

« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2018, 09:11:19 PM »

Another alternative would be to ask a nearby fire department to borrow a rescue dummy. Never hurts to remind other agencies we're around.
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RiverAux
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,966

« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2018, 06:14:54 AM »

I've left out a "dummy" consisting of a CAP uniform stuffed with leaves.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2018, 10:15:00 AM »

Don't see why not.  I use non-CAP members as "victims" or "actor's guild" quite often in my activities.

While there is no regulation stating that you cannot (and vice versa) use non-CAP members as victims, I think the OP is really getting at the legality of it.  For example, if the person volunteering as a victim, at the request of CAP, is seriously injured at the hands of CAP, who is liable?  Will they fall under CAP corporate insurance?  Will that private citizen be forced to use his/her own medical insurance?  If a private citizen volunteering as a victim is injured and he/she chooses to sue CAP, will that person win in court?  Or if the "victim" is a member of an outside agency invited by CAP to work with CAP, what are repercussions if that agency sues CAP over an injury?  Is there is a liability waiver that needs to be signed in advance?

Further I think the OP is also asking "what provisions allow for the transport of non-CAP members acting as victims for CAP AFAM exercises?"  Of course, we know that CAPR 77-1 allows the transport of non-CAP passengers should they be vital to the CAP Program and with written approval of the Wing and Region Commanders. 
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Sriracha
Recruit

Posts: 35
Unit: NER-NJ-037

« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2018, 12:10:19 PM »

For example, if the person volunteering as a victim, at the request of CAP, is seriously injured at the hands of CAP, who is liable?

CAP shouldn't be held responsible if they give written consent. Something like a liability form would work.
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,107

« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2018, 01:03:15 PM »

A sand bag and four sand in a tubes inside of a jump suit will do the job with zero liability.
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,248
Unit: Worry

« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2018, 03:10:07 PM »

HSEEP templates include a waiver form for volunteer "victims"

Actor Waiver Form
Note: This waiver should be reviewed by the Sponsor Organizationís legal counsel prior to distribution or use.
On behalf of [Sponsor Organization], we thank you for volunteering to be a mock victim for our preparedness exercise. The event is scheduled for [date]. Actors should report to [location] at [time].
Please Print Name, Sign, and Date
I, [Name]   agree to participate in the [Exercise Name] exercise on [date] and hold harmless [sponsor organization] and any other organization or its members participating in this exercise. I understand that all reasonable and customary safety measures will be performed during the exercise.
Signature:   Date:
Signature of parent or Guardian (if under 18):   Date:
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PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,107

« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2018, 03:14:53 PM »

HSEEP templates include a waiver form for volunteer "victims"

Actor Waiver Form
Note: This waiver should be reviewed by the Sponsor Organizationís legal counsel prior to distribution or use.
On behalf of [Sponsor Organization], we thank you for volunteering to be a mock victim for our preparedness exercise. The event is scheduled for [date]. Actors should report to [location] at [time].
Please Print Name, Sign, and Date
I, [Name]   agree to participate in the [Exercise Name] exercise on [date] and hold harmless [sponsor organization] and any other organization or its members participating in this exercise. I understand that all reasonable and customary safety measures will be performed during the exercise.
Signature:   Date:
Signature of parent or Guardian (if under 18):   Date:

Why not use a CAP Form 9? Why reinvent the wheel?
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,252

« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2018, 03:40:22 PM »

HSEEP templates include a waiver form for volunteer "victims"

Actor Waiver Form
Note: This waiver should be reviewed by the Sponsor Organizationís legal counsel prior to distribution or use.
On behalf of [Sponsor Organization], we thank you for volunteering to be a mock victim for our preparedness exercise. The event is scheduled for [date]. Actors should report to [location] at [time].
Please Print Name, Sign, and Date
I, [Name]   agree to participate in the [Exercise Name] exercise on [date] and hold harmless [sponsor organization] and any other organization or its members participating in this exercise. I understand that all reasonable and customary safety measures will be performed during the exercise.
Signature:   Date:
Signature of parent or Guardian (if under 18):   Date:
If you're going to use a non-CAP waiver form, or unit developed waiver form, run it through CAP's legal folks. They may already have one that's been vetted and approved.
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Holding Pattern
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,248
Unit: Worry

« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2018, 03:56:23 PM »

HSEEP templates include a waiver form for volunteer "victims"

Actor Waiver Form
Note: This waiver should be reviewed by the Sponsor Organizationís legal counsel prior to distribution or use.
On behalf of [Sponsor Organization], we thank you for volunteering to be a mock victim for our preparedness exercise. The event is scheduled for [date]. Actors should report to [location] at [time].
Please Print Name, Sign, and Date
I, [Name]   agree to participate in the [Exercise Name] exercise on [date] and hold harmless [sponsor organization] and any other organization or its members participating in this exercise. I understand that all reasonable and customary safety measures will be performed during the exercise.
Signature:   Date:
Signature of parent or Guardian (if under 18):   Date:

Why not use a CAP Form 9? Why reinvent the wheel?

The point I was poorly attempting to make was that this is a standard practice.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,635

« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2018, 04:58:13 PM »

Why not use a CAP Form 9? Why reinvent the wheel?

Because it's not a "general" release, it's a release related specifically to flight operations,
which would likely be of no value to CAP in the event someone twists an ankle or gets sun stroke
while they are "missing".
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RMW14
Member

Posts: 63
Unit: NER-PA-010

« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2018, 06:49:30 PM »

A sand bag and four sand in a tubes inside of a jump suit will do the job with zero liability.


This would be my preferred training choice. Nothing to worry about but tired cadets after carrying the litter and no additional paperwork!  As someone who has moved people in various litters of the the better part of 20 years, it is much harder than everyone thinks so taking a possible injury to an person in the lither is the safer way to do this training.
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Ryan Weir Capt
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Sriracha
Recruit

Posts: 35
Unit: NER-NJ-037

« Reply #13 on: April 13, 2018, 01:29:57 PM »

Why not use a CAP Form 9? Why reinvent the wheel?

Because it's not a "general" release, it's a release related specifically to flight operations,
which would likely be of no value to CAP in the event someone twists an ankle or gets sun stroke
while they are "missing".

I know there are a few forms you can re-purpose. The interviewing form was developed for missing planes, but it's commonly used for missing persons as well.
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,203

« Reply #14 on: April 13, 2018, 02:15:52 PM »

Bottom Line Up Front: Anybody, CAP member or not, can participate.

Good opportunity to pitch the Cadet Sponsor Member role to parents. "Hey, we're having a field training exercise this summer. We plan to do some search and rescue, and first aid training. We could use some extra people to help supervise, maybe act as victims. We'd like it if we had some extra members help out. Are you familiar with what Sponsor Members are?"

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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,861

« Reply #15 on: April 13, 2018, 02:24:42 PM »

To do that you're going have to do more than bum gear off of them. Write them into your exercise. Identify the areas where they are weak (mostly, from experience, land nav) and help them get something out of it.

Another alternative would be to ask a nearby fire department to borrow a rescue dummy. Never hurts to remind other agencies we're around.
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,203

« Reply #16 on: April 18, 2018, 09:57:24 AM »

To do that you're going have to do more than bum gear off of them. Write them into your exercise. Identify the areas where they are weak (mostly, from experience, land nav) and help them get something out of it.

Another alternative would be to ask a nearby fire department to borrow a rescue dummy. Never hurts to remind other agencies we're around.

You mean develop a training plan? Unheard of! Absurd!
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,635

« Reply #17 on: April 18, 2018, 11:24:04 AM »

A professional rescue aid costs anywhere from $300 - 1500.  Lose or damage a borrowed one and you're gonna pooch the wing's budget.

Make one with an old shirt, sweats, and stuffing.

With that said, CAP-USAF generally likes to be the "missing person" during evals and other large exercises,
to the detriment of their dermis when they sit all day not being found.

This is no different then when people truck sections of aircraft out to fields when some panels
of Tyvek from Home Despot looks exactly the same from the air.

Don't over think or over complicate things - focus where the real need is.  "Finding" not "setup".

« Last Edit: April 18, 2018, 11:27:10 AM by Eclipse » Logged


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