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Author Topic: ironing just assumed?  (Read 2785 times)
MrsRoe
Member

Posts: 61

« on: March 20, 2018, 12:51:40 AM »

A quick search of "ironing ABUs" has yielded me a ton of conversations about the wear and tear etc of ironing the ABUs but I can't find where it says the cadets are supposed to iron in xyz fashion. Is this an assumed thing they do? Am I once again just being technically cursed and can't find the reg?
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 12:56:58 AM by MrsRoe » Logged
Just a new SM and mom of a CAP kid trying to figure it out one acronym at a time
Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2018, 12:58:24 AM »

From CAPM 39-1: "Do not starch or hot press shoulder patches. Light ironing and center
creasing of NCO chevrons is authorized; however, repeated hot pressing or heavy ironing will accelerate
the overall wear of the fabric."

I had one set of BDU's for most of my 6 years as a Cadet.  Heavily ironed and starched on a regular basis.  They lasted just fine.  I don't think there's a specific way to iron them, but i always heavily starched mine (because I liked the sharp look) and made sure I had creases down the sleeves and the legs.
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MrsRoe
Member

Posts: 61

« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2018, 01:00:27 AM »

Thanks, her squad asks for the crease down the sleeve and front of pants but we couldn't find anything other than the quote from the 39-1 you mentioned which left her confused to why they do it
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Just a new SM and mom of a CAP kid trying to figure it out one acronym at a time
Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #3 on: March 20, 2018, 01:03:54 AM »

WIWAC, I did it because I didn't think it looked professional unless it was starched and ironed.  Even now, my utility uniform (the Blue BDU because I'm a fat and fuzzy) gets starched and ironed.  The only difference is now, as an adult, I can pay someone else to do it.  :D
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MrsRoe
Member

Posts: 61

« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2018, 01:06:25 AM »

"fat and fuzzy" dying lol this actually came up because she's a little over extended time wise and uses a dry cleaners for her uniforms and our new one looked at her insane when she requested the creases and said they'd put it in her customer file if we could print it out.
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Just a new SM and mom of a CAP kid trying to figure it out one acronym at a time
Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2018, 01:08:04 AM »

I'd say she needs to find a new dry cleaner, then.  I have creases put in all garments I take to the cleaners.  Including my dress shirts and trousers I wear to work.  Never had anyone question me when I ask.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,830
Unit: Earth

« Reply #6 on: March 20, 2018, 07:54:25 AM »

I have always been amused when cadets require BDUs to be heavily pressed and starched.  Ironed, yes.  Starched or heavily pressed?  No.  The uniform is a field uniform.  Iron the wrinkles and put the extra fabric folds back into their place, but no need to starch it and make a crease down the sleeve.  The same with boots.  Make them black.  No need to spend 30 min to hours making them mirror like.  YMMV.
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 335

« Reply #7 on: March 20, 2018, 08:29:29 AM »

ABUs are not BDUs. Donít starch them and take it easy on the ironing.

If she has the older heavyweight ones theyíre permanent press and have permanent creases. I wear mine right out of the dryer, periodically lightly ironing my stripes for a crease down the center.

The newer ripstop ones donít have the creases but still donít go crazy with it, itís harder on the fabric.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,830
Unit: Earth

« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2018, 08:34:33 AM »

ABUs are not BDUs.

Hence why I stated BDUs. But that was not the point
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Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 335

« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2018, 08:36:06 AM »

ABUs are not BDUs.

Hence why I stated BDUs. But that was not the point
We posted at the same time, I wasnít responding to you.
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TheSkyHornet
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Posts: 1,395

« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2018, 09:31:24 AM »

You don't generally iron ABUs. It's essentially a "wash and wear" uniform. But you should iron them if they get wash-wrinkle.

From AFI 36-2903, for additional guidance beyond the ABU Wear Instructions that have yet to make it into CAPM 39-1:
Quote
5.1. Do not starch the ABU. Ironing of ABUs and center creasing of enlisted chevrons is authorized; however, repeated hot pressing or heavy ironing accelerates the overall wear of the fabric. Mixing and matching of the heavy weight version of the ABU and Ripstop Airman Battle Uniform (RABU) coat/trouser is not authorized.
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hamburgee
Member

Posts: 83

« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2018, 09:58:09 AM »

I found this on the Malstrom AFB site:

Quote
Q12: Does the ABU require dry cleaning and/or pressing?

A12: The ABU is literally a wash and wear item. In fact, starching and hot pressing of ABUs is prohibited. Also, one should not dry clean the ABU. Dry cleaning, starching and hot pressing will deteriorate the fiber in the uniform and shorten the wear life.

If you're down for reading, check out the whole article! It has some interesting stuff about ABUs on there that CAP contrasts.
http://www.malmstrom.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/349915/qas-regarding-airman-battle-uniform/
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TheSkyHornet
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,395

« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2018, 10:19:52 AM »

I found this on the Malstrom AFB site:

Quote
Q12: Does the ABU require dry cleaning and/or pressing?

A12: The ABU is literally a wash and wear item. In fact, starching and hot pressing of ABUs is prohibited. Also, one should not dry clean the ABU. Dry cleaning, starching and hot pressing will deteriorate the fiber in the uniform and shorten the wear life.

If you're down for reading, check out the whole article! It has some interesting stuff about ABUs on there that CAP contrasts.
http://www.malmstrom.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/349915/qas-regarding-airman-battle-uniform/

Which goes against the 2017 AFI that I posted above (as this page is from 2007).

Whenever I read "prohibited," I personally like to know where that prohibition comes from. If I recall correctly, Army ACUs and Air Force ABUs were once prohibited, in regulation, from being ironed (I know we were always prohibited from ironing our ACUs), but that has since changed for the Air Force (I'm not sure if it was ever published as an official prohibited action).


If CAP regulations don't prohibit it, it's not prohibited.

If CAP regulations don't address a question, take it up the chain. Refer to Air Force guidance, if available, but understand that Air Force regulations do not apply to CAP unless specifically instructed, in CAP regs/manuals, to refer to the Air Force policy.
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Geber
Member

Posts: 68

« Reply #13 on: March 20, 2018, 10:34:49 AM »

I recall reading somewhere that using starch makes fabric easier to detect with near-infrared viewing devices, thus making the camouflage ineffective. I tried a google search with starch near IR and didn't get anything about camo, but found a bunch of academic articles about measurements made with starch and near IR, so there seems to be a relationship.

Of course, CAP doesn't need functional camo.

I agree with the previous comment about the ABU being a utility uniform. If there is a need to put sharp creases in an ABU, that suggest the uniform of the day really ought to have been Class B or corporate equivalent. But then I'm a newbie, and my uniform experience comes from experience as a volunteer firefighter and EMT.
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,281

« Reply #14 on: March 20, 2018, 10:50:50 AM »

I agree with the previous comment about the ABU being a utility uniform. If there is a need to put sharp creases in an ABU, that suggest the uniform of the day really ought to have been Class B or corporate equivalent. But then I'm a newbie, and my uniform experience comes from experience as a volunteer firefighter and EMT.

But the service uniforms are not tacti-kewl!
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,281

« Reply #15 on: March 20, 2018, 10:51:36 AM »

I found this on the Malstrom AFB site:

Quote
Q12: Does the ABU require dry cleaning and/or pressing?

A12: The ABU is literally a wash and wear item. In fact, starching and hot pressing of ABUs is prohibited. Also, one should not dry clean the ABU. Dry cleaning, starching and hot pressing will deteriorate the fiber in the uniform and shorten the wear life.

If you're down for reading, check out the whole article! It has some interesting stuff about ABUs on there that CAP contrasts.
http://www.malmstrom.af.mil/News/Features/Display/Article/349915/qas-regarding-airman-battle-uniform/

Which goes against the 2017 AFI that I posted above (as this page is from 2007).

Whenever I read "prohibited," I personally like to know where that prohibition comes from. If I recall correctly, Army ACUs and Air Force ABUs were once prohibited, in regulation, from being ironed (I know we were always prohibited from ironing our ACUs), but that has since changed for the Air Force (I'm not sure if it was ever published as an official prohibited action).


If CAP regulations don't prohibit it, it's not prohibited.

If CAP regulations don't address a question, take it up the chain. Refer to Air Force guidance, if available, but understand that Air Force regulations do not apply to CAP unless specifically instructed, in CAP regs/manuals, to refer to the Air Force policy.
Excepting the uniform manual, which specifically states otherwise.
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Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,946

« Reply #16 on: March 20, 2018, 10:51:57 AM »

What an AFI says, or doesn't say, regarding CAP uniform wear is largely irrelevant.

The BDU / CFU / ABU is a field uniform the vast majority of members, especially cadets,
will never wear in the field.

CAP members, especially cadets, decreasingly wear mil-spec uniform parts, as its primary
vendor sells knock offs (though the most recent CFU I bought does have Propper tags).

The BDU / CFU / ABU is intended to be worn 8 hours a day, in combat environments.
Most CAP members, especially cadets, wear their field uniform less then 8 hours a month
in urban settings.

Yes, the field uniforms are "wash and wear", however that doesn't mean "wash and leave in
a lump on the floor until next week" which is the care many adolescents give their clothes.

One of the reasons that starch, and some detergents, were / are prohibited for washing military
field uniforms is that they may cause cause the garment to fluoresce in infra-red light, making them easier to
see with night vision.  This is 100% irrelevant to CAP.

In a CAP context, if someone is doing an inspection and giving a member, especially a cadet,
grief for not having their field uniform pressed, they are wrong and the
understanding should be corrected professionally and discreetly.

In a CAP context, if someone is doing an inspection and giving a member, especially a cadet,
grief for having their field uniform pressed, they are wrong  and the
understanding should be corrected professionally and discreetly.

Context is important in all things.

FWIW, CMSAF James Cody made very public statements that while he did not
starch or press his ABUs, he did iron them and crease his stripes, as does
current CMSAF Kaleth O. Wright...

« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 11:03:33 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 28,946

« Reply #17 on: March 20, 2018, 11:05:47 AM »

This is what the current 39-1 actually says about the issue:
https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/media/cms/M391_E6F33EAAEC28A.pdf
Page(s) 66 & 69 Verbiage is the same for both USAF-Style and corporate variants
"5.1. USAF-style Utility Uniforms. Utility uniforms are specifically designed to be worn in a field or
working environment that involves physical exertion Field uniform wear is generally restricted to CAP
meeting and activities with a field or training focus, but may be worn away from activities for short
convenience stops and when eating at restaurants where people wear comparable civilian attire. Do not
wear field uniforms to eat in restaurants where most diners wear business attire or at establishments that
operate primarily to serve alcohol. Do not starch or hot press shoulder patches. Light ironing and center
creasing of NCO chevrons is authorized
; however, repeated hot pressing or heavy ironing will accelerate
the overall wear of the fabric. Females may wear the male version of any of the field uniforms."


Not sure why starching shoulder patches is prohibited, but rules is rules.

I also don't agree with the assertion that ironing and pressing will accelerate the wear of the fabric -
maybe with clothing worn every day, but on stuff worn a couple times a month for a couple hours? No.
I have seen a more then a few "shiny circles" on the CFU over the years where buttons were
pressed or ironed under the pockets, but everyone know's CAP is supposed to removed them
and sew them down AMIRITE?

Seriously, though, I'll take an ironed / dry cleaned field uniform over a sky-blue improperly washed
one all week.
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 11:11:30 AM by Eclipse » Logged


Geber
Member

Posts: 68

« Reply #18 on: March 20, 2018, 11:47:30 AM »


But the service uniforms are not tacti-kewl!

Certainly cammo and/or tactical style clothing become fashionable from time to time, and now is one of those times. Even the armed services can succumb to fashion trends.
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MrsRoe
Member

Posts: 61

« Reply #19 on: March 20, 2018, 12:14:55 PM »

Iím not sure if she specifically has new or old style. My father in law is active air force and buys her uniforms on base regularly so I would assume new. Where as Iím not particularly worried about wear and not at all worried about infrared she did bring up a point this morning. She said, as flight sergeant I have to enforce rules and I donít like doing so without it being written down somewhere that itís even a rule. She has the same issue with PT short length though thatís another headache for another day.

I do see her point in wanting a reg lined out for the obsessive creasing. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Just a new SM and mom of a CAP kid trying to figure it out one acronym at a time
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: ironing just assumed?
 


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