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Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 625

« on: March 13, 2018, 12:43:18 PM »

Any of us recall the controversy and angst about discussing appropriate responses to active shooters when the topic was broached just 2 1/2 short years ago?  Last night I attended a CAP corporate mandated training that covered some of the same active shooter information that was so flamingly controversial on this forum way back when...

IMHO, the CAP corporate mandated material was voluminous and a bit unfocused.  Including material and teaming Safety with the Chaplain's Corps was a great idea.  It's really clear that care is necessary for near victims, victims, and others well after the event.  The TSA video was a well done addition that set the stage for excellent discussion.  Some of the observations offered by viewers of the video, noted did actors in the video neglected to barricade the doors in nearly every scenario.  Actors also said "call the police" which might not be the best phrasing... in stressful situations many people simply cannot process information easily.   Point and then say "CALL 911" would be more likely to elicit an immediate call. 

Here in my community we've had more than one recent false alarm of gunshots since the Florida event.  What other sounds can be interpreted as gun shots?  One police officer in the Squadron pointed out that a slamming toilet seat can have a similar sound.

I thought the videos by the psychologist were great!  They provided a very good transition between the safety conversation and the Chaplain's piece. 

FWIW, at least four scenarios were discussed in our squadron:  Schools; office settings (note that a very high percentage of offices now are open with cubicles created by flimsy partitions - not the individual offices presented in the TSA video); malls with large open areas and shops; and open air (cover/concealment free) gatherings.  Each has it's own unique characteristics for Run, Hide (Cover/Concealment); and FIGHT. 

The material took a long time to plow through.  I could tell, as a non-presenting participant, that death by powerpoint was imminent.  Perhaps some other instructional methods, such as small breakouts with some pre-briefed discussion group leaders might have made the experience more meaningful, and enhanced retention.  Role playing is also helpful. 

Since the ice is now broken, I assume CAP no longer departs from direction in the regs that allows Safety Officers to identify and then present material that is appropriate for topics that are emergent and/or locally important.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 02:36:58 PM »

The fact that something was "controversial" here, has no relevance to whether or not NHQ should be
doing it, nor does the fact that NHQ has a reaction to the news and feels it needs to provide "training"
where it does not.

I hate the fact that AS is a reality of my kids' lives, but they don't need to be getting "reinforcement"
of the "training" from CAP. 

Run, hide, or fight.  There.  We're all trained.

CAP safety topics should be focused and specific to CAP operations, and leave winter driving,
turkey fryers, and yes, AS, to the professionals.  This is another area where kids are hammered
at school with enough information to scare them as is, not to mention making AS seem more like
a "normal" part of life.

FWIW, until the mental health and family issues are addressed in some meaningful way in this country,
protests, walkouts, legislation, and even AS training are pretty much meaningless in prevention.

But in today's "society" of slacktivism and "noise over signal" doing "something" feels like actually
doing something, so there you go.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 04:12:29 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 04:25:59 PM »

The fact that something was "controversial" here, has no relevance to whether or not NHQ should be
doing it, nor does the fact that NHQ has a reaction to the news and feels it needs to provide "training"
where it does not.

I hate the fact that AS is a reality of my kids' lives, but they don't need to be getting "reinforcement"
of the "training" from CAP. 

Run, hide, or fight.  There.  We're all trained.

CAP safety topics should be focused and specific to CAP operations, and leave winter driving,
turkey fryers, and yes, AS, to the professionals.  This is another area where kids are hammered
at school with enough information to scare them as is, not to mention making AS seem more like
a "normal" part of life.

FWIW, until the mental health and family issues are addressed in some meaningful way in this country,
protests, walkouts, legislation, and even AS training are pretty much meaningless in prevention.

But in today's "society" of slacktivism and "noise over signal" doing "something" feels like actually
doing something, so there you go.

Because legislation hasn't done anything in nearly every other civilized nation.......

Can you show me evidence that we have a higher rate of mental illness in our country? 
Can you show me evidence that we have a higher rate of "family issues" in our country?

And I can break down your training curriculum even more.... "fight or flight."
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abdsp51
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 04:35:57 PM »

Tick Tock....
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Eclipse
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 04:36:43 PM »

Can you show me evidence that we have a higher rate of mental illness in our country? 
Can you show me evidence that we have a higher rate of "family issues" in our country?

I don't need to as I didn't make the assertion the US had "more", however in every case of active
shooters in a school environment I can think of, there have been documented mental health issues
with the shooters, and in many (most?) cases family issues.

With that said, CAPTalk isn't the place for this debate, except for where it directly touches CAP
operations, and my primary issue is that with the already limited contact hours CAP
has, it shouldn't be wasting them trying to be "all things"- it should focus on CAP and the mission
and leave things like this at the door, knowing it's already saturating the kids' lives.

Tick Tock....

Pretty much.
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JayT
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Posts: 1,333

« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 05:59:36 PM »

IFWIW, until the mental health and family issues are addressed in some meaningful way in this country,
protests, walkouts, legislation, and even AS training are pretty much meaningless in prevention.

But in today's "society" of slacktivism and "noise over signal" doing "something" feels like actually
doing something, so there you go.

Like whining on a forum about today's youth?
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"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."
Fester
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Posts: 171

« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 07:18:06 PM »

And forgetting that his generation are the ones that raised those whiny youths.....
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EMT-83
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« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 07:38:05 PM »

And forgetting that his generation are the ones that raised those whiny youths.....

Speak for yourself.
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Live2Learn
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Posts: 625

« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 08:01:12 PM »

I think Eclipse brings up a good point:  What is "CAP" related?   For some reason I have the impression one of our goals in the Cadet program is to teach life skills.  IMHO, situational awareness is a critical survival skill that is high on that list.  Another skill set is ability to act promptly and correctly under pressure.  Both are very important as we instill leadership skills in the young people who participate in CAP.  Isn't that part of belonging, teamwork, etc. 

Much as we'd like to segregate AS survival skills as unnecessary or maybe way outside of CAP's mission I believe the skills for dealing with AS, a car wreck, a derailed train, etc. have strong similarities.  Previous thought and simulated experiences are avenues to developing appropriate responses - why else would we practice fire drills or EPs in the cockpit? 

While I respect Eclipse's views, I do not agree with them.  It's very obvious that 'soft targets' abound.  Events like the December 2015 San Diego ISIS wannabe couple who murdered over a dozen people at a holiday party could easily occur in a school setting, mall, beach, or where ever people congregate.  It is definitely short sighted, IMHO, to label all who act with murderous intent as 'mentally ill'.  Extremist views and people who act on them occur even in 'home town USA'.  Based on input from cadets in my squadron, they are exposed to 'lock down' strategies at school which is a variant of "hide".  "Run" and "Fight" not so much.
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 08:03:00 PM »


Come on guys and gals.   No personal attacks.  That's not what we signed on for when we joined the forum.  Disagree with respect.
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Fester
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Posts: 171

« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2018, 08:21:20 PM »

What personal attacks?  All I see are generalizations, nothing personalized.

I wasn't aware that there was ANY mandated training with regards to AS situations.  I believe that what we should be teaching and instilling is more generalized knowledge and skills around situational awareness.

Bottom line, though, I find it overwhelmingly disheartening that my generation (X) and those before mine have been so overwhelmingly negligent with regards to public policy about maintaining safety in public spaces such as schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, etc... to the point where we are forcing our children (and cadets) to be familiarized and trained in these types of situations. 

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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2018, 09:17:36 PM »

I wasn't aware that there was ANY mandated training with regards to AS situations.

There normally isn't, but after Parkland NHQ mandated that some AS training be done within 30 days.

Many units used it as their monthly CDI.
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abdsp51
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Posts: 2,547
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« Reply #12 on: March 13, 2018, 09:20:37 PM »

What personal attacks?  All I see are generalizations, nothing personalized.

I wasn't aware that there was ANY mandated training with regards to AS situations.  I believe that what we should be teaching and instilling is more generalized knowledge and skills around situational awareness.

Bottom line, though, I find it overwhelmingly disheartening that my generation (X) and those before mine have been so overwhelmingly negligent with regards to public policy about maintaining safety in public spaces such as schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, etc... to the point where we are forcing our children (and cadets) to be familiarized and trained in these types of situations.

Liberal ideology is to blame.
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #13 on: March 13, 2018, 09:41:01 PM »

What personal attacks?  All I see are generalizations, nothing personalized.

I wasn't aware that there was ANY mandated training with regards to AS situations.  I believe that what we should be teaching and instilling is more generalized knowledge and skills around situational awareness.

Bottom line, though, I find it overwhelmingly disheartening that my generation (X) and those before mine have been so overwhelmingly negligent with regards to public policy about maintaining safety in public spaces such as schools, churches, shopping malls, movie theaters, etc... to the point where we are forcing our children (and cadets) to be familiarized and trained in these types of situations.

Liberal ideology is to blame.

Explain.  Include cited sources.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #14 on: March 13, 2018, 09:49:05 PM »

Prove it's not.
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Fester
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Posts: 171

« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2018, 09:53:26 PM »

You're the one that made the ridiculous claim.  The onus is on you.  Otherwise, the claim is nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion that isn't based in fact.  And does nothing but show your disdain and disregard for those with whom you disagree. 

Furthermore, the claim is polar opposite of our Core Value of Respect.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2018, 10:05:14 PM »

You're the one that made the ridiculous claim.  The onus is on you.  Otherwise, the claim is nothing more than an unsubstantiated opinion that isn't based in fact.  And does nothing but show your disdain and disregard for those with whom you disagree. 

Furthermore, the claim is polar opposite of our Core Value of Respect.

A person can be respected and not their ideology.  All anyone has to do is look around to see what that ideology has done.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #17 on: March 13, 2018, 10:09:31 PM »

Based on input from cadets in my squadron, they are exposed to 'lock down' strategies at school which is a variant of "hide".  "Run" and "Fight" not so much.

The A.L.I.C.E. concept is relatively new and evolved as the threats have.

Alert - Lockdown - Inform - Counter - Evacuate

https://www.alicetraining.com/our-program/alice-training/k12-education/age-appropriate/

The "Counter" or "fight" is primarily intended for adults, but I've told my kids recently that if hiding
or running isn't an option, throw a desk, or anything else you can grab.
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OldGuy
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Unit: TBKS

« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2018, 10:45:07 PM »

One comment I heard was that the handout was objectionable. Have yet to see same, so withholding judgment.
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Live2Learn
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Posts: 625

« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2018, 11:14:12 PM »


The "Counter" or "fight" is primarily intended for adults, but I've told my kids recently that if hiding or running isn't an option, throw a desk, or anything else you can grab.


I discussed this topic with my kids a long time ago and offered pretty much the same advice.  Get away if you can, hide (considering cover vs conceal) if you must, but always think of ways to fight.  I expect the grand kids will share some of the same conversations with their parents as the grow.

The age of the young people involved in these events varies hugely.  Responses from teens I should be very different from pre-teen adolescents, and vastly different from kids in the early elementary school etc. ages.  This is really NOT set of strategies that are one size fits all.  Most HS and many middle school students should be able to respond in a very mature manner if given the training and opportunity to think about their actions prior to an event. IMHO, the sheep like response of many adults when placed in these situations comes from the very highly secure lives we lead in the US.  Yes, there's a lot of 'news' that centers on crime, but it's not necessarily within the personal experience of most US citizens.  Some communities excepted.
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Brit_in_CAP
Seasoned Member

Posts: 391
Unit: MER-VA-002

« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2018, 09:59:21 AM »

One comment I heard was that the handout was objectionable. Have yet to see same, so withholding judgment.
That was version 1...youth-appropriate version was rapidly issued.  The original referred to using alcoholic beverages, among other things.

FWIW: I presented the material as the monthly CD, alongside safety and it was very well received by the cadets.

For the most part, they agreed with Eclipse: The "Counter" or "fight" is primarily intended for adults, but if hiding
or running isn't an option, they'd throw a desk, or anything else they can grab.  They all agreed, without prompting, that being backed into the store cupboard or similar was a very bad option.
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Chappie
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Posts: 1,054

« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2018, 03:29:16 PM »

Indeed one handout by a reputable source was more adult orientated than youth orientated.  It was "recalled" for that reason.

On another note, the Chaplain Corps was tasked the day following this tragic event by the National Commander to put together this session for our cadets.  Normally, lesson material takes a while to develop.  This lesson, in a quick response to the tasking by Maj Gen Mark Smith, was in the field in less than 2 weeks.   
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Disclaimer:  Not to be confused with the other user that goes by "Chappy"   :)
ol'fido
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« Reply #22 on: March 20, 2018, 12:06:40 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality
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Lt. Col. Randy L. Mitchell
Historian, Group 1, IL-006
Live2Learn
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Posts: 625

« Reply #23 on: March 20, 2018, 04:57:24 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality

It's the media "echo chamber effect" https://www.theguardian.com/science/blog/2017/dec/04/echo-chambers-are-dangerous-we-must-try-to-break-free-of-our-online-bubbles.  Some call it the barnyard chicken peckin' effect...  For the urbanites among us, chickens will start pecking on an unlucky victim until it finally succumbs to the negative attention.  Other folks just say "I know what I know, please don't confuse me with the data".  :o
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Fester
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Posts: 171

« Reply #24 on: March 20, 2018, 09:56:39 PM »

https://www.npr.org/2018/03/15/593831564/the-disconnect-between-perceived-danger-in-u-s-schools-and-reality

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....

The author of this article may be accurate, but that's because he's narrowed the telescope so much that the VAST majority of school shootings don't fit within his sample.

A quick calculation of the list of ALL school shootings by decade, I see that the 90's had 62 school shootings, the 00's had 63 and the 10's have had (so far, with 21 months still remaining in the decade) 149. 
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Fester
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Posts: 171

« Reply #25 on: March 20, 2018, 10:09:40 PM »

And, by the way.... Sandy Hook wouldn't be included in the author's sample because there were less than 4 injuries.  Even though there were 28 deaths.
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LSThiker
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« Reply #26 on: March 20, 2018, 10:34:39 PM »

There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....

The author of this article may be accurate, but that's because he's narrowed the telescope so much that the VAST majority of school shootings don't fit within his sample.

A quick calculation of the list of ALL school shootings by decade, I see that the 90's had 62 school shootings, the 00's had 63 and the 10's have had (so far, with 21 months still remaining in the decade) 149.

Unfortunately, this is an issue in studying gun violence.  What constitutes a school shooting.  There are no official definitions of a school shooting.  Some sources, especially the ones that cite high school shooting numbers, have a definition of any shooting on school ground.  For example, they include a suicide on school ground at 1 am as a school shooting.  Another is a clear gang violence shooting in a school known for gang violence.  More strict definitions use the at least 4 dead (not including the shooter) definition.

Thus, yes the author of the previous uses a strict definition to fit his political bias, other groups use a rather broad definition in order to fit their political bias.  So, everyone is correct "from a certain point of view".

Please see this reference, which I think present a rather fair and unbiased look at the definitions, the many of them:
http://www.politifact.com/california/article/2018/feb/28/how-are-school-shootings-defined/
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EMT-83
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« Reply #27 on: March 22, 2018, 06:37:04 AM »


There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....


No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #28 on: March 22, 2018, 07:04:47 AM »


The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.

It also doesn't advance certain ideologies and agendas.  Inflated numbers go farther and add more meat for Anti-Constitution attacks.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 04:16:14 PM by SarDragon » Logged
JayT
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« Reply #29 on: March 22, 2018, 10:05:03 AM »


There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....


No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.

Now who's messing with the numbers for their own gain?

Grow up.
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"Eagerness and thrill seeking in others' misery is psychologically corrosive, and is also rampant in EMS. It's a natural danger of the job. It will be something to keep under control, something to fight against."
jeders
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Posts: 2,069

« Reply #30 on: March 22, 2018, 10:42:07 AM »

Can we get a lock on this before it descends into ad hominem attacks a la Twitfaceagram, please?
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
LSThiker
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« Reply #31 on: March 22, 2018, 10:45:12 AM »

Can we get a lock on this before it descends into ad hominem attacks a la Twitfaceagram, please?

"Grow up" ~Twitfacegram

 >:D

Agreed
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EMT-83
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,863

« Reply #32 on: March 22, 2018, 12:06:58 PM »


There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....


No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.

Now who's messing with the numbers for their own gain?

Grow up.

On a daily basis: Dan Malloy. Elizabeth Esty, Richard Blumenthal and Chris Murphy to name a few. And those are just the Connecticut Democrats.
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sarmed1
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« Reply #33 on: March 22, 2018, 12:22:31 PM »

I would say the number of shootings doesnt matter.  If you are the one being shot at, it doesnt matter where you are, (we can exclude the suicide example) the principles remain the same.  Run, Hide, Fight it is a pretty simple version.  There is a video you can download.  Its free.  There are also formal classes that can be put on (mostly by Law Enforcement... CRASE)

The reality (sad?) is that it is a risk that we all face, and CAP meetings and activities are no different.  It doesnt matter your political view on the why ([darn] millennial's) or the how (AR-15's are evil); keep those parts out of the discussion on focus on what to do when/if it happens.  My personal opinion is that every activity should have a FOUO type of evacuation and re-unification plan in the event of an incident, and that every participant should know the R.H.F. type of plan just as much as they know the fire alarm plan and the tornado plan or earthquake plan.

MK   
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Mark Kleibscheidel
TSgt USAFR
Live2Learn
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« Reply #34 on: March 22, 2018, 12:47:15 PM »

I would say the number of shootings doesnt matter.  If you are the one being shot at, it doesnt matter where you are, (we can exclude the suicide example) the principles remain the same.  Run, Hide, Fight it is a pretty simple version.  There is a video you can download.  Its free.  There are also formal classes that can be put on (mostly by Law Enforcement... CRASE)

The reality (sad?) is that it is a risk that we all face, and CAP meetings and activities are no different.  It doesnt matter your political view on the why ([darn] millennial's) or the how (AR-15's are evil); keep those parts out of the discussion on focus on what to do when/if it happens.  My personal opinion is that every activity should have a FOUO type of evacuation and re-unification plan in the event of an incident, and that every participant should know the R.H.F. type of plan just as much as they know the fire alarm plan and the tornado plan or earthquake plan.

MK

Agree.   

We might also remember that violent events at schools are really in the minority... while school related events have great shock value that attracts attention and enhances readership, 2/3 or more of active shooter events occur in other settings.  Any 'soft' target for violence... i.e. unprotected by limited access and/or guards ... could benefit from some prior "what if" thinking and planning.  We should also remember that bombs remain a weapon of choice for some evil doers.  And that swords, knives, and other weapons are used to attack individuals or groups of people.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 01:04:47 PM »

^ Which is why you don't increase or change specific plans or expectations in reaction to any one event or incident.

Governments have limited resources, but more importantly limited reach and power, while at the same time
the general public has a literally infinite amount of time and resources to find weaknesses and new exciting ways
to do bad things.

Anything reasonable, which doesn't infringe on rights or come with an expectation of behavioral change
by the general public, should be done immediately, but when you start using specific incidents to justify
government expenditure, legislation, or having to tell people "no", then you have to approach it in rational,
fact-based ways that remove emotion and feelings from the discussions.

Otherwise you risk wasting a lot of time to no result, while the "real problem", whatever that actually is,
continues to exist.

If you die in a plane crash, you proved to be statistically 100% vulnerable to airline safety, however that doesn't
change that air travel as a whole is at historical lows, any more then the first autonomous vehicle fatality
means that autonomous cars are inherently unsafe, either.

Parkand saw someone who was essentially a "peer" use the school's safety systems against the very
people they were meant to protect.  You can't shelter in place at the same time a fire alarm is going off,
right? Or do you?  That's probably a more important topic to figure out then some of the other, louder
things in the news.

What about emergency exits?  Should every classroom in the US be required to have an exterior door exit?
As it stands today, everyone is basically locked in with the bad actors.
Again, probably more important in just about every incident then metal detectors and
security glass, at least once bad things have started.

"Advocates" do not generally like math when math doesn't agree with their advocacy, but that doesn't change the
math.

It's impossible to be prepared for "everything" (ORM actually teaches that as a core principle), you can only be
informed, live with your head on a swivel, and not ignore the warning signs which inevitably have been
pre-cursors of nearly all of these incidents.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2018, 01:12:12 PM by Eclipse » Logged


Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 10:08:46 PM »


There have been 12 school shootings in the 11 weeks of 2018....


No, there hasn't. That's an inflated number purposely used to mislead people who don't know any better.

Let's use real simple criteria: a school shooing is an incident where a student was shot on school grounds. The drug deal on the playground in the middle of the night, the suicide in the parking lot, the drive-by where the building was hit, the little girl who pulled the trigger on the SRO's gun - they don't count.

The real number is 4, not 12. But that number doesn't scream from the headlines as effectively. Yes, that's still too many, but at least it's an honest number.

4.  Right.

1/20 - 1 killed on campus of Wake Forest.
1/22 - 1 injured on campus of Italy High School.
1/22 - 1 injured.  Shots were fired from a truck in the parking lot of NET Charter High School, targeting a crowd of students during lunch time. One student was slightly injured, apparently from injuries unrelated to gunfire. One person was arrested in connection with the shooting.
1/23 - 2 killed, 18 injured at Marshall County High School when 15 year old opened fire during school hours.
2/1 - 5 injured when 12 year old girl negligently discharged a firearm.
2/5 - 1 injured when a student at Oxon Hill High School was shot in the parking lot.
2/14 - Parkland.
3/2 - CMU shooting (questionable according to your definition.)
3/7 - 1 killed, 2 injured at Huffman HS in Birmingham, AL when a gun was discharged in the school building during school hours.
3/14 - 2 killed, 1 injured at University of Alabama at Birmingham.
3/20 - 1 killed, 2 injured at Great Mills HS in Maryland.

Which of these 11 are the 7 you don't consider "school shootings," EMT-83?

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SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,342
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2018, 10:12:12 PM »

Measurement noted and completed.

Stick a fork in it, it's done.

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Active Shooter Training revisited
 


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