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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: 39-3 and Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device
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Author Topic: 39-3 and Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device  (Read 696 times)
gbecker
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: SER-FL-182

« on: March 13, 2018, 11:01:53 AM »

CAPR 39-3  21(g) says, in relevant part:

"Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster[emphasis added].  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above. 

This contrasts with 21(f), the Disaster Relief Ribbon (without V), which specifies "...actual/evaluated disaster relief missions..." 21(g)appears to read that a CAP member who works on a Presidentially-declared disaster, even if not specifically for CAP, may be awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V. Am I reading this correctly? I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

V/r,
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Alaric
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 781

« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2018, 11:53:12 AM »

CAPR 39-3  21(g) says, in relevant part:

"Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster[emphasis added].  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above. 

This contrasts with 21(f), the Disaster Relief Ribbon (without V), which specifies "...actual/evaluated disaster relief missions..." 21(g)appears to read that a CAP member who works on a Presidentially-declared disaster, even if not specifically for CAP, may be awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V. Am I reading this correctly? I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

V/r,

With the exception of the Community Service Award, Lifesaving and Medals of Valor  I have always been told and as a DA/DP have always kept to the standard that CAP Ribbons are for actions while acting for CAP. 
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kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 910

« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2018, 11:55:21 AM »

CAPR 39-3  21(g) says, in relevant part:

"Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster[emphasis added].  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above. 

This contrasts with 21(f), the Disaster Relief Ribbon (without V), which specifies "...actual/evaluated disaster relief missions..." 21(g)appears to read that a CAP member who works on a Presidentially-declared disaster, even if not specifically for CAP, may be awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V. Am I reading this correctly? I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

V/r,

With the exception of the Community Service Award, Lifesaving and Medals of Valor  I have always been told and as a DA/DP have always kept to the standard that CAP Ribbons are for actions while acting for CAP.

Agreed
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gbecker
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2018, 12:15:18 PM »

CAPR 39-3  21(g) says, in relevant part:

"Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster[emphasis added].  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above. 

This contrasts with 21(f), the Disaster Relief Ribbon (without V), which specifies "...actual/evaluated disaster relief missions..." 21(g)appears to read that a CAP member who works on a Presidentially-declared disaster, even if not specifically for CAP, may be awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V. Am I reading this correctly? I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

V/r,

With the exception of the Community Service Award, Lifesaving and Medals of Valor  I have always been told and as a DA/DP have always kept to the standard that CAP Ribbons are for actions while acting for CAP.

And if the reg did not say "Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander", I would not raise the question. CAP participation would be verified through WMIRS (or other documents for pre-WMIRS events) and would not require external verification, no?

And Alaric, glad to see you made it to a computer...  :-)
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arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,242

« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2018, 12:16:10 PM »

First, that quoted section is just 1 of a list of several items (of which 2 must be accomplished) for the DR ribbon. The lack of Presidential Declaration for this covers working at state and local disasters that do not rise to the federal level.

Second, you pre-CAP work wouldn't count.

As mentioned, with few exceptions, CAP awards recognize CAP work. However, an inquiry through channels may produce the result you seek.
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gbecker
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 12:22:10 PM »

First, that quoted section is just 1 of a list of several items (of which 2 must be accomplished) for the DR ribbon. The lack of Presidential Declaration for this covers working at state and local disasters that do not rise to the federal level.

Actually, that's not how the reg reads. The list you describe is in the preceding section - 21(f). The whole section for the Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device (21(g) states:

Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster.  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above [emphasis added].  A maximum of one V device will be worn.  Individuals participating in more than one Presidentially declared disaster may add a bronze clasp to the ribbon with V device beginning on the left side of the device.

The list you describe is for the Disaster Relief Ribbon, and those criteria don't appear to be mandatory for the ribbon with V for Presidentially-declared disasters.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 12:26:31 PM »

And if the reg did not say "Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander", I would not raise the question. CAP participation would be verified through WMIRS (or other documents for pre-WMIRS events) and would not require external verification, no?

That criteria really has not changed for the last few decades.  The on-scene commander requirement was put in long before WMIRS was a twinkle in someone's eye.  The verification was added as many times people's names were not always added to other documents.  Record keeping was not really that great pre-2000 era.  It was meant as a cover for previous presidential disasters since 1990.  So do not read too much into the "must be verified by the on-scene commander". 

Here is the 1998 version:
Quote
Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device. The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster. Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander. Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.

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gbecker
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 12:31:19 PM »


That criteria really has not changed for the last few decades.  The on-scene commander requirement was put in long before WMIRS was a twinkle in someone's eye.  The verification was added as many times people's names were not always added to other documents.  Record keeping was not really that great pre-2000 era.  It was meant as a cover for previous presidential disasters since 1990.  So do not read too much into the "must be verified by the on-scene commander". 


Interesting. So, I wonder why the very specific "mission/evaluated" language in the preceding section, and nothing similar - or at least a reference to the prior section language - in this one?

All in the name of learning. Thanks for the input.
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jeders
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,065

« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 12:42:03 PM »

I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

No. All awards, decorations, and ribbons are subject to the general eligibility criteria found in Paragraph 5, namely:

Quote from: CAPR 39-3
5. Eligibility. A member must be in good standing at the time of the distinguished act and must meet the criteria established for the award. All award recommendations must be submitted within 2 years of the termination date of the act, achievement or service performed. Next of kin of deceased persons are entitled to receive awards earned but not presented.


Anything done while not a member of CAP is not eligible. Further, as a squadron commander, with the exception of the community service ribbon (which requires the service to be outside of CAP), I would not approve a SERVICE award for work done outside of and with no connection to CAP. In your case, work a way to be a primary liaison between your county and CAP and maybe it would be approved; but with the work being done without any connection to CAP, I don't see how it would ever be approved.
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,807
Unit: Earth

« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2018, 12:42:43 PM »


That criteria really has not changed for the last few decades.  The on-scene commander requirement was put in long before WMIRS was a twinkle in someone's eye.  The verification was added as many times people's names were not always added to other documents.  Record keeping was not really that great pre-2000 era.  It was meant as a cover for previous presidential disasters since 1990.  So do not read too much into the "must be verified by the on-scene commander". 


Interesting. So, I wonder why the very specific "mission/evaluated" language in the preceding section, and nothing similar - or at least a reference to the prior section language - in this one?

All in the name of learning. Thanks for the input.

Do not know.  The current DR ribbon was approved in 1982, from the previous CD ribbon that looks nearly the same except with the letters CD.  I am not sure when the V device was added.  Perhaps that was around the same time.  Unfortunately, I do not have access to the 01 July 1988 version of CAPR 39-3.  Regardless, your work with the county EMA does not count for the DR ribbon nor the DR with V device. 
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DocJekyll
Forum Regular

Posts: 110

« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2018, 02:21:17 PM »

CAPR 39-3  21(g) says, in relevant part:

"Disaster Relief Ribbon with V Device.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with a silver V device may be awarded to any CAP member who participates in a disaster relief effort for a Presidential declared disaster[emphasis added].  Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander.  Participation in any Presidential declared disaster since 1990 qualifies.  The Disaster Relief Ribbon with V device may be earned even if the member has not met the requirement of paragraph 21(f), above. 

This contrasts with 21(f), the Disaster Relief Ribbon (without V), which specifies "...actual/evaluated disaster relief missions..." 21(g)appears to read that a CAP member who works on a Presidentially-declared disaster, even if not specifically for CAP, may be awarded the Disaster Relief Ribbon with V. Am I reading this correctly? I'm a county Emergency Management Coordinator who worked (and am still working ) Hurricane Irma - but not as a CAP member. I've also worked a dozen or so before I joined CAP - do those count, too?

V/r,

With the exception of the Community Service Award, Lifesaving and Medals of Valor  I have always been told and as a DA/DP have always kept to the standard that CAP Ribbons are for actions while acting for CAP.

And if the reg did not say "Participation must be verified by the on-scene commander", I would not raise the question. CAP participation would be verified through WMIRS (or other documents for pre-WMIRS events) and would not require external verification, no?

And Alaric, glad to see you made it to a computer...  :-)

FLWG posted an LOA for the ribbon with the names of those who participated and are authorized. Other wings should have done the same and then it be added by the members commander in E-services once verified by the commander.

Where are you doing IRMA stuff? I bet we chewed some of the same dirt!
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Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.

gbecker
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: SER-FL-182

« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2018, 08:08:33 PM »


Where are you doing IRMA stuff? I bet we chewed some of the same dirt!

Pinellas County - West coast of Florida.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: 39-3 and Disaster Relief Ribbon with "V" Device
 


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