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Spencezilla
Newbie

Posts: 1
Unit: Pcr-050

« on: February 22, 2018, 01:01:58 AM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2018, 01:10:52 AM »

Who did you report it to?  The Cadet Commander or a Senior Member?
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2018, 01:16:21 AM »

If you haven't yet, you should have a conversation with your Deputy Commander for Cadets (Senior Member) or Squadron Commander (Senior Member.)
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2018, 07:20:30 AM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.

Call the cops with your parents and start a paper trail. 
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2018, 08:13:43 AM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.

Call the cops with your parents and start a paper trail.
Absent knowledge of a crime, why would you suggest that? "Bullying" is not always a crime and  calling the cops without good cause is both a waste of their time and a potential disaster for all involved.
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The_CAP_Life_Chose_Me
Recruit

Posts: 39

« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2018, 08:36:09 AM »

I was told to just immediately go up the ranks (this is the only time I know of that you can skip the chain of command) to one of the senior members and report to them and then just let them take care of it.
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C/SrA Cassie
The_CAP_Life_Chose_Me
Recruit

Posts: 39

« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2018, 08:37:09 AM »

But for your question they most likely depending on their bullying, will either be demoted or kicked out.
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C/SrA Cassie
abdsp51
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« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2018, 10:17:42 AM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.

Call the cops with your parents and start a paper trail.
Absent knowledge of a crime, why would you suggest that? "Bullying" is not always a crime and  calling the cops without good cause is both a waste of their time and a potential disaster for all involved.

Bullying which usually includes some type of assault or harrasement, which are both crimes..  File a police report start the trail.

That is being much more generous than other options.
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abdsp51
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Posts: 2,529
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« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2018, 10:18:07 AM »

But for your question they most likely depending on their bullying, will either be demoted or kicked out.

Not neccessarily.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2018, 12:42:49 PM »

Bullying which usually includes some type of assault or harrasement, which are both crimes..  File a police report start the trail.
Really? Absent any facts, you decide a crime is involved? Wow.
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Robert Hartigan
Forum Regular

Posts: 184
Unit: each

« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2018, 01:06:12 PM »

I hope someone, somewhere in the senior member chain of command has gone “VFR direct” to this cadet’s parents and squadron commander. A cadet coming here seeking advice like this is indicative of a bigger problem!

In my opinion there is a trust issue here, either this cadet does not have anyone to trust at the local unit or he is putting too much trust in the awareness level and abilities of the chain of command. Unfortunately, based on my experience with CAP, this cadet is probably going to be blamed in some way.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2018, 01:20:21 PM »

Best practice:

1 - Engage your parents. They hopefully will help you analyze the situation and determine how serious it is.
2 - Engage a Senior Member - DCC / CC or Chaplain ASAP.
3 - Keep a very fact based diary, date time, specific words and action, as well as witnesses to same.

Ignore the rest of the well meaning advice, as they are unaware of the facts on the ground. Your parents and the Squadron Senior member / command staff are the folks that are able to help.

4 - If the local folks cannot help, engage the Inspector General.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2018, 01:26:34 PM »

https://www.gocivilairpatrol.com/members/cap-national-hq/inspector-general/complaints/

Civil Air Patrol
Inspector General

Complaints Program
 


CIVIL AIR PATROL COMPLAINTS PROGRAM


The Civil Air Patrol Complaints Program is intended to create an environment where complaints, grievances and misunderstandings can be resolved.  The Complaint System is a last resort management tool.  Every effort should be made to satisfy complaints and grievances at the supervisory or command level where they occur.  While the opportunity always exists to elevate issues to the IG and even to Congressional levels, CAP personnel should be aware that allegations are investigated at the level where they occurred.  The same person who could or should have originally answered the complaint is usually tasked to do so from a higher level.

In other words, if a squadron member has a complaint or grievance or suspects a fraud, waste or abuse problem exists, he/she should bring it to the attention of the unit commander.  If the problem directly involves the commander, then take it to the next higher commander (i.e. group commander).  The first person to contact is NOT the IG, a member of congress, the governor or the CAP National Commander.  Quite often the perceived problem is just a misunderstanding and can be easily corrected or explained.

Allow some time once you have contacted the commander.  The commander may only devote two or three evenings per week to the CAP.  Remember, he/she is a volunteer too and has many other obligations outside of CAP.  If it appears nothing is being done after a reasonable period of time, you may want exercise your rights and responsibilities under the complaints system.

There are exceptions to this.  Allegations of sexual harassment or abuse, verbal or written, will be immediately reported by the unit commander to the wing or region commander, who in turn will immediately report it to NHQ CAP/GC.  Incidents and complaints regarding alleged discrimination or discriminatory practices will be reported promptly to the wing or region commander, who shall immediately report the incident to CAP Equal Opportunity Officer at  NHQ (CAP/IGC).  In incidents or complaints regarding an alleged hostile environment, unit commanders will immediately report the allegation to the wing commander, region commander, or inspector general.

Once you have decided to contact the IG, you should refer to CAPR 123-2 to determine if your concern or grievance meets the definition of a complaint.  If it does, you should follow the steps for “Complaints Submission” outlined in CAPR 123-2 (soon to be CAPR 20-2).
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2018, 01:27:10 PM »

Bullying which usually includes some type of assault or harrasement, which are both crimes..  File a police report start the trail.
Really? Absent any facts, you decide a crime is involved? Wow.

Did you not read what was said.  Bullying on the average involves some type of physical assault and or  harrasement.  Both are crimes.  The OP never gave specifics.  And yes bullying in some states is actually considered a crime now. 

I could have given other advice but given how sensitive people here are it would not have been well recieved.  Filing a police report is an action that can be taken and if this is a solid case of bullying should be taken.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2018, 01:44:31 PM »

Did you not read what was said.  Bullying on the average involves some type of physical assault and or  (sic) harrasement.  Both are crimes.  The OP never gave specifics.  And yes bullying in some states is actually considered a crime now. 
You have no idea what happened or what state laws apply. Your advice may be - probably is - well intentioned, but it is way to broad given the fact set. Again you only know that a claim of bullying has been made. Nothing else. Parental involvement, sure. Senior staff involvement, sure. If - and only if a crime happened, based on a responsible adult with knowledge of the facts then calling in law enforcement. Again, just calling the cops on what you know is - at best - premature.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2018, 01:48:42 PM »

Did you not read what was said.  Bullying on the average involves some type of physical assault and or  (sic) harrasement.  Both are crimes.  The OP never gave specifics.  And yes bullying in some states is actually considered a crime now. 
You have no idea what happened or what state laws apply. Your advice may be - probably is - well intentioned, but it is way to broad given the fact set. Again you only know that a claim of bullying has been made. Nothing else. Parental involvement, sure. Senior staff involvement, sure. If - and only if a crime happened, based on a responsible adult with knowledge of the facts then calling in law enforcement. Again, just calling the cops on what you know is - at best - premature.

The OP asked for advice and advice was given.  You're outline saying it's unjust and premature without knowing the facts yourself. 
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2018, 01:50:53 PM »

Did you not read what was said.  Bullying on the average involves some type of physical assault and or  (sic) harrasement.  Both are crimes.  The OP never gave specifics.  And yes bullying in some states is actually considered a crime now. 
You have no idea what happened or what state laws apply. Your advice may be - probably is - well intentioned, but it is way to broad given the fact set. Again you only know that a claim of bullying has been made. Nothing else. Parental involvement, sure. Senior staff involvement, sure. If - and only if a crime happened, based on a responsible adult with knowledge of the facts then calling in law enforcement. Again, just calling the cops on what you know is - at best - premature.

The OP asked for advice and advice was given.  You're outline saying it's unjust and premature without knowing the facts yourself.
Bad advice absent facts was given. My advice takes that lack of facts into account. You seem unwilling to see the difference. -30-
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2018, 02:01:17 PM »

Did you not read what was said.  Bullying on the average involves some type of physical assault and or  (sic) harrasement.  Both are crimes.  The OP never gave specifics.  And yes bullying in some states is actually considered a crime now. 
You have no idea what happened or what state laws apply. Your advice may be - probably is - well intentioned, but it is way to broad given the fact set. Again you only know that a claim of bullying has been made. Nothing else. Parental involvement, sure. Senior staff involvement, sure. If - and only if a crime happened, based on a responsible adult with knowledge of the facts then calling in law enforcement. Again, just calling the cops on what you know is - at best - premature.

The OP asked for advice and advice was given.  You're outline saying it's unjust and premature without knowing the facts yourself.
Bad advice absent facts was given. My advice takes that lack of facts into account. You seem unwilling to see the difference. -30-

Sound advice.  But I guess you would rather have it continue than dealt with.  Or maybe you'd prefer the alternatives.
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,616

« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2018, 02:49:44 PM »

Abd, that was mean!

He never, but never said for it to continue!

I guess you are the kind of guy that would go directly to the Centers of Disease Control when a visit to your doctor would suffice.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2018, 03:38:16 PM »

Abd, that was mean!

He never, but never said for it to continue!

I guess you are the kind of guy that would go directly to the Centers of Disease Control when a visit to your doctor would suffice.

I was hardly mean..  I can be mean if you would like.  Cicero was out of line and called on it.  Unlike many here I have a thick skin and don't take every little slight or barb and cry "violates our core value of respect". 

Police action is a very suitable action and sound advice.  I never once stated or inferred what the alternative was.   

Maybe you Luis are ok with someone especially a minor being consistantly bullied and let it progress but I am not.
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,616

« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2018, 04:26:25 PM »

No, I am not OK with a minor being constantly bullied. But being a retired public school teacher I have learned that what minors call bullying is not. Minors sometimes are known to misidentify what does bullying consist. As Cicero claims, it can be investigated at the local level without calling the police.

And remember that in most states, like New York, teachers are child abuse mandated reporters. And are trained in spotting so.
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Pylon
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Posts: 5,164
Unit: NER-NH-038

Michael Kieloch, Marketing Communications & PR Leadership
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2018, 04:56:14 PM »

Knock off the contest, gentlemen. Only warning.



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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
Concord Composite Squadron, NH       
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2018, 05:19:47 PM »

No, I am not OK with a minor being constantly bullied. But being a retired public school teacher I have learned that what minors call bullying is not. Minors sometimes are known to misidentify what does bullying consist. As Cicero claims, it can be investigated at the local level without calling the police.

And remember that in most states, like New York, teachers are child abuse mandated reporters. And are trained in spotting so.

You know I could have called bs and said it's not.  I didn't and chose to give the benefit of the doubt that everyone cries about. 

If there is assault or harrasement then a police report is the way to go.  The advice doesn't have to be taken but it's bunk and foul to say what was said. 

I can tell you as a former cop that documentation goes a long way in dealing with things especially bullying.  I can tell you as the parent of a bullied child I dealt with it and it stopped.

My advice was sound, just and approppriate.  You don't have to like it or agree with it it wasn't given to either of you.
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CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 134
Unit: MER

« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2018, 05:31:35 PM »

Immediately contact your Deputy Commander for Cadets.
If you cannot contact the DCC, contact the Squadron Commander.
Are your parents engaged?

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.
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"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
Live2Learn
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Posts: 618

« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2018, 06:05:42 PM »


Bullying which usually includes some type of assault or harrasement, which are both crimes..  File a police report start the trail.


maybe.  OP has not provided details sufficient to made an informed judgment.  The best advice I've seen is discuss it with the DCC or CC. 
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2018, 06:08:21 PM »


Bullying which usually includes some type of assault or harrasement, which are both crimes..  File a police report start the trail.


maybe.  OP has not provided details sufficient to made an informed judgment.  The best advice I've seen is discuss it with the DCC or CC.
Exactly. Bullying is a vague and subjective verb in this context. We have no clue what happened. Engaging the adults - parents and Senior Members is the best practice absent any specific data that would indicate escalation.
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vorteks
Seasoned Member

Posts: 240

« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2018, 06:27:01 PM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.
Um didn't this get anyone's attention?
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,529
Unit: Classified

« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 06:33:10 PM »

Yeah talking to a bully really does the trick.  When it gets worse as it usually does ya'll be eating crow.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2018, 06:33:41 PM »

The correct procedures are outlined in CAPR 52-10 4-1 et seq. and reporting under CPAR 20-1.
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OldGuy
Seasoned Member

Posts: 376
Unit: TBKS

« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2018, 06:34:21 PM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.
Um didn't this get anyone's attention?
I read that as a question.
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754837
Forum Regular

Posts: 107

« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2018, 06:47:08 PM »

I have never written this before but it is time to lock this thread. 
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Johnny Yuma
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 608

« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2018, 07:01:25 PM »

OP if believe you were bullied or hazed you need to report this immediately to your unit commander or barring that your wing commander along with your parents.

While all forms of bullying and hazing are out of line for any CAP member it may or may not rise to the level of being a criminal offense. This is where your parents and CAP command need to deal with it together. 
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"And Saint Attila raised the Holy Hand Grenade up on high saying, "Oh Lord, Bless us this Holy Hand Grenade, and with it smash our enemies to tiny bits. And the Lord did grin, and the people did feast upon the lambs, and stoats, and orangutans, and breakfast cereals, and lima bean-"
 
" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2018, 10:12:32 PM »

I am a C/SSgt in the Oregon Wing. We have this C/Sra soon to be C/SSgt and he is bullying me. I told our cadet commanders what will happen to the bully.
Um didn't this get anyone's attention?

Yes, I saw it.  Which is why my response was "your Cadet Commander or a Senior Member Commander?"
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2018, 10:13:44 PM »

I have never written this before but it is time to lock this thread.

No, it's not.  It's time for the ADULTS that are arguing over this to remove themselves and allow the real adults to help guide this cadet through this in an appropriate matter.
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CAP9907
Member

Posts: 54
Unit: NER-000

« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2018, 10:28:23 PM »

Already been done.

The OP's concern has been addressed, if it ever existed in the 1st place (troll?) and good advice given. End.

I have never written this before but it is time to lock this thread.

No, it's not.  It's time for the ADULTS that are arguing over this to remove themselves and allow the real adults to help guide this cadet through this in an appropriate matter.
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16 yrs of service
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,337
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2018, 11:51:03 PM »

Y'all know the drill.

Click.
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
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