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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF transition to OCP
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Author Topic: USAF transition to OCP  (Read 4611 times)
abdsp51
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« Reply #20 on: February 19, 2018, 01:12:02 PM »


The main disadvantage I see is you can't wright a policy now that will be good for quite a few years, because you can't describe the distinctions between the USAF version and the CAP version until the USAF version exists.

Yes you you can.  Because an AF version exists already in a limited capacity.  We went through this with the ABU the big issue there was getting approval from DoD.  By being proactive about it and figuring out the distinctiveness ahead of time would put us ahead of the game.   
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GroundHawg
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« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2018, 03:35:13 PM »

I know what is written, but can anyone truly give a good reason why cadets cant wear the BBDU?

I one day dream of an entire squadron dressed the same.
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jeders
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« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2018, 03:55:46 PM »

I know what is written, but can anyone truly give a good reason why cadets cant wear the BBDU?

I one day dream of an entire squadron dressed the same.

Why would they want to?
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If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse
Jester
Seasoned Member

Posts: 320

« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2018, 04:31:04 PM »

The more I think about it, I'd be ok with moving everyone to BBDU but they don't seem to be anywhere near as available as BDU/ABUs. 

This isn't 1994, and nobody wears the old 4-pocket BDU tops or 6-pocket BDU pants anymore, much less in dark blue.  I went to a couple of police supply shops in a big city nearby and there wasn't anything in any color in that design.  Everything has 80 pockets and is super-operator with a special garrote pouch on it nowadays. 

I think being able to wear military awards/badges/ribbons on corporate uniforms is a good idea too, so YMMV.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2018, 04:40:23 PM »

I think being able to wear military awards/badges/ribbons on corporate uniforms is a good idea too, so YMMV.

Until the services change their policy not likely.  Personally while it's a nice addition to the AF style we should really do without them.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #25 on: February 20, 2018, 02:56:01 AM »

Should have just kept woodland and made it "ours".  Annnnd.  Done.

Ummm... not so quick there. Since the supply of new BDUs seems to have dried up, that would entail new production. I think we have a huge economy of scale issue here.

The current AF manning is about 490,000. We'll use 400,000 to account for folks who don't wear BDUs as a normal working uniform. The minimum required uniform quantities, from AFI36-3014, and expected life: Cap, Utility ABU, 2, 1ea/annually; Coat, Men's ABU, 4, 1ea/2 years; Trousers, Men's ABU, 4, 1pair/2years.

The anticipated wear frequency is about 208 days/yr. Replacement at the same rate that the replacement allowance is paid gives us: cap, 1/yr x 400k; coat, 2/yr x 800k; trousers, 2/yr x 800k. Given that uniforms frequently do not last through their wear cycle, and many people need more than the issue allowance, the procurement rate is probably higher than the stated figures. Let's round that up to 2 million/yr each for the coats and trousers (one set). A reasonable guess is that the Air Force acquired two million ABU uniform sets every year.

Let's compare that to some CAP numbers. Estimate an end strength of 35,000 members wearing ABUS an average of six days a month, or, rounding up, 40 days a year. That's an equivalent life of 5.2 years. At the rate of two sets every 5.2 years, it averages out to about 0.4 sets/yr. Multiply that times 35,000, and the annual procurement is about 14,000 sets/yr. That's a drop in the bucket production-wise and does not take into account sizing, which reduces individual production runs even further. Nobody would be willing to manufacture that few items for the same cost they sold them to the government, or even at all.

These numbers are mostly all reasonable SWAGs; good guesses to illustrate a point. If you have better numbers, or can point out reasonable considerations I might not have made, I'd like to hear them.

Oh, yeah, here's an olde thread discussing ABUs, from 2011: the whole thread, and some specific 2013 commentary on economy of scale thing regarding introducing a new, non-AF uniform combination, a response, and my reply to that.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #26 on: February 20, 2018, 01:21:24 PM »

I know what is written, but can anyone truly give a good reason why cadets cant wear the BBDU?

I one day dream of an entire squadron dressed the same.

Why would they want to?

Around here the Blue BDU is the official uniform of our ground team. Granted, there aren't many cadets on the ground team, but until the change they were expected to be in blue BDUs like everyone else.
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Ned
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« Reply #27 on: February 20, 2018, 02:07:10 PM »

I know what is written, but can anyone truly give a good reason why cadets cant wear the BBDU?

For over 75 years, our cadets have been required to wear AF-style uniforms whenever possible.  It is a critical tool for use in our successful cadet program. 

(Yes, the first couple of years were in Army uniforms, and occasionally there is a delay as we transition to new uniforms as the AF does.  And the AF restricts all members from AF-style uniforms, and that includes the relatively small number of cadets over 18 who do not meet H/W standards.)

Quote
I one day dream of an entire squadron dressed the same.

In some situations, that might indeed be nice.  But remember, the AF has almost exactly the same number of uniform variations as we do.  It is actually rare for everyone in an AF squadron to be in the same uniform combination on any given day.  So we are in good company.

And ultimately, the reason that we have multiple uniforms is the same reason our AF colleagues have multiple uniforms -- we need the variations to perform our assigned missions under the current law and AFI situation.

But we can all dream.   8)

And the One Incontrovertible Truth is that -- at some point -- the AF will change their uniforms.  As they have many times over the years.  There will be a uniform after ABUs, whether that is OCP or something else.  And, there will be a new uniform after that.  And another after that.  No one, including anyone in the AF, knows when the next transition will be, and what the uniform will look like.  It could be  next year, or 10 years from now.

In the meantime, we will continue to perform our duties.  As we always have.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2018, 02:11:52 PM by Ned » Logged
PHall
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« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2018, 10:07:47 PM »

Heck, I wonder why the Air Force wears camouflage uniforms in the first place. They're not needed by the vast majority of AF members.
Yes the camo uniforms are needed if you get deployed to a "war zone", but you'll get those when you go through the Deployment processing line anyway.
The Blue BDU's would work just fine. >:D
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etodd
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« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2018, 10:56:12 PM »


I one day dream of an entire squadron dressed the same.


YES!  Polos for everyone!   >:D

(Sorry, but I just couldn't resist that opening. LOL)
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MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO
foo
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Posts: 164

« Reply #30 on: February 21, 2018, 08:59:37 AM »

Heck, I wonder why the Air Force wears camouflage uniforms in the first place. They're not needed by the vast majority of AF members.
Yes the camo uniforms are needed if you get deployed to a "war zone", but you'll get those when you go through the Deployment processing line anyway.
The Blue BDU's would work just fine. >:D

FTFY   :)
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #31 on: February 21, 2018, 10:33:57 AM »

I have predominately found that those who want to wear the corporate uniform full-time either can't meet the fitness standards or refuse to get a haircut. I have found that those who want everyone to wear the Air Force-style want to "play military" and get attention.

Put the uniform on. Shut up. And just do your jobs. If there is a standard to meet for a certain uniform, meet that standard. If you don't, wear the alternative uniform.

I fully agree that cadets should be in a common, military-style uniform to reinforce uniformity and discipline as part of their training curriculum. It's a training tool, nothing more. If we want to redesign our own uniform, whatever; go for it. Until then, this is what we use.

How many times does has this conversation happened in the last few decades? And the result...?
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PHall
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« Reply #32 on: February 21, 2018, 10:20:56 PM »

I have predominately found that those who want to wear the corporate uniform full-time either can't meet the fitness standards or refuse to get a haircut. I have found that those who want everyone to wear the Air Force-style want to "play military" and get attention.

Put the uniform on. Shut up. And just do your jobs. If there is a standard to meet for a certain uniform, meet that standard. If you don't, wear the alternative uniform.

I fully agree that cadets should be in a common, military-style uniform to reinforce uniformity and discipline as part of their training curriculum. It's a training tool, nothing more. If we want to redesign our own uniform, whatever; go for it. Until then, this is what we use.

How many times does has this conversation happened in the last few decades? And the result...?


So I do wear both the ABU (legally) and the Blue BDU, what does that make me?
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SarDragon
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« Reply #33 on: February 21, 2018, 10:39:46 PM »

So I do wear both the ABU (legally) and the Blue BDU, what does that make me?

A mixed up goofball?  ;) 8)
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Dave Bowles
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abdsp51
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« Reply #34 on: February 21, 2018, 10:49:19 PM »

Yes the camo uniforms are needed if you get deployed to a "war zone", but you'll get those when you go through the Deployment processing line anyway.

Uniforms aren't really issued on a deployment line anymore.  If you need them they are purchased at the Supply Store.
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PHall
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« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2018, 12:04:07 AM »

Yes the camo uniforms are needed if you get deployed to a "war zone", but you'll get those when you go through the Deployment processing line anyway.

Uniforms aren't really issued on a deployment line anymore.  If you need them they are purchased at the Supply Store.

They're still in your D Bag, right?
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PHall
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« Reply #36 on: February 22, 2018, 12:04:54 AM »

So I do wear both the ABU (legally) and the Blue BDU, what does that make me?

A mixed up goofball?  ;) 8)

You're one to talk Squid Boy. ;-)
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Fester
Forum Regular

Posts: 171

« Reply #37 on: February 22, 2018, 12:13:06 AM »

Heck, since we are a SAR organization, I think we should all just wear the uniform of the Thai Royal Guard!  Or the South Korean Honor Guard uniform.
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PHall
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Posts: 6,136

« Reply #38 on: February 22, 2018, 01:34:51 AM »

Heck, since we are a SAR organization, I think we should all just wear the uniform of the Thai Royal Guard!  Or the South Korean Honor Guard uniform.

Not everybody in CAP participates in ES..... ::)
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abdsp51
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« Reply #39 on: February 22, 2018, 10:13:22 AM »

Yes the camo uniforms are needed if you get deployed to a "war zone", but you'll get those when you go through the Deployment processing line anyway.

Uniforms aren't really issued on a deployment line anymore.  If you need them they are purchased at the Supply Store.

They're still in your D Bag, right?

D-bag is aircrew specific.
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: USAF transition to OCP
 


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