Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 11, 2018, 11:12:20 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Vanguard fleece
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print
Author Topic: Vanguard fleece  (Read 5202 times)
Turtle1
Member

Posts: 66

« on: November 30, 2017, 11:20:00 AM »

Good Morning several members of our squadron have purchased the black fleece. After repeated washing and drying the jacket is still leaving black lint over everything. Did anyone else experience this problem?
Thank you.
Logged
Marybeth Williams
Major, CAP
Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,145
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #1 on: November 30, 2017, 11:39:41 AM »

Yes. It is much like house breaking a pet:

"Bad fleece! BAAAAAD fleece! Back in the wash for you".

The thing that really sucks is when your spouse drives the car after you and gets out with black fleece droppings in a vertical bar down their white shirt (and doesn't notice until after their amused coworkers). You'll hear about it for days. The seat belt is a major fleece remover.


V/r
Spam
Logged
CS
Recruit

Posts: 35

« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2017, 12:30:34 PM »

Yes, The Rothco Fleece is crap and no amount of washing will ever stop the shedding.  Need to find a a good Polar Black Fleece if you don't want to be embarrassed.
Logged
chuckmilam
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #3 on: November 30, 2017, 03:22:56 PM »

Along the same lines, I had my knit dark blue polo go through the wash with some soft baby clothes.  I'll likely never get the fine white lint off it. 

So far, I haven't had too much trouble with the black fleece, but I've been babying it so it doesn't have to be washed too often.  It helps that I'm a Wisconsin-grown boy now living in Kentucky, so I pretty much wear short sleeves year-round. 
Logged
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2017, 05:32:37 PM »

I bought a Rothco fleece (only because it was the only thing I could afford, it's also super soft) and I haven't had this problem. I have, however, had problems with holes opening along the seams.
Logged
Phillip
Member

Posts: 77

« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2017, 06:36:57 PM »

I turn my Vanguard fleece inside out when washing.  It helps with the shedding, but it's only resulted in about a 50% reduction.
Logged
Captain
Turtle1
Member

Posts: 66

« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2017, 04:44:01 PM »

Thank you for all your replies. Problem solved Vanguard sent me a return packing slip and will issue a refund. So far they do not have a replacement vendor for a new jacket. Vanguard did acknowledge that this is a known problem with the jacket.
Logged
Marybeth Williams
Major, CAP
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,505
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2017, 03:10:35 AM »

I have two civilian black fleece jackets - one from Weatherproof Garment Company, and the other from Port Authority. Neither of them have any shedding problems.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2017, 12:43:12 PM »

The Black Fleece I was issued by the Air Force was made by Peckham.
100% Polyester Synthetic Fleece.
Logged
CAPSOC_0pur8ur
Member

Posts: 52

« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2017, 11:31:08 PM »

So if a fleece is 'Small R', is it made to fit over 'Small R' ABU's, or is it sized like a 'Small R' ABU blouse? Basically, if I wear a 'Small R' ABU blouse, should I get a 'Small R' fleece, or a 'Med R' fleece?
Logged
"To be somebody or to do something. In life there is often a roll call. That’s when you will have to make a decision. To be or to do? Which way will you go?” -Col John Boyd
Turtle1
Member

Posts: 66

« Reply #10 on: December 27, 2017, 01:43:14 PM »

I would go with the medium, especially if you order the fleece from VG.
Logged
Marybeth Williams
Major, CAP
J2H
Seasoned Member

Posts: 200
Unit: MER-MD-031

« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2018, 06:39:29 AM »

I wear a foliage Green Rothco and never had shedding problems.
Logged
SSgt Jeffrey Hughes, Squadron NCO
Glenn L. Martin Composite Squadron MD-031
#217169
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 166
Unit: MER

« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2018, 05:34:19 PM »

So if a fleece is 'Small R', is it made to fit over 'Small R' ABU's, or is it sized like a 'Small R' ABU blouse? Basically, if I wear a 'Small R' ABU blouse, should I get a 'Small R' fleece, or a 'Med R' fleece?

Negative.
It is not made to be worn that way, we're wearing it in a manner for which it was not designed.
The lighter-weight fleece was never meant to be worn over the ACU/ABU.
ECWS is a nested system of layers, cotton BDU/ABU isn't designed to be in the mix.
An oversized Polartec 300-weight Series ECWCS Cold Weather Fleece Jacket can be worn nicely over the ABU/ACU.
The lighter-weight one, not so much. Arm holes are smaller, etc.
Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
HGjunkie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,619

« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2018, 01:09:31 PM »

So if a fleece is 'Small R', is it made to fit over 'Small R' ABU's, or is it sized like a 'Small R' ABU blouse? Basically, if I wear a 'Small R' ABU blouse, should I get a 'Small R' fleece, or a 'Med R' fleece?

Negative.
It is not made to be worn that way, we're wearing it in a manner for which it was not designed.
The lighter-weight fleece was never meant to be worn over the ACU/ABU.
ECWS is a nested system of layers, cotton BDU/ABU isn't designed to be in the mix.
An oversized Polartec 300-weight Series ECWCS Cold Weather Fleece Jacket can be worn nicely over the ABU/ACU.
The lighter-weight one, not so much. Arm holes are smaller, etc.

Uh, standard wear in the AF/Army is wearing the fleece over the blouse. I wear a medium/X-long fleece over chest size 36 ABUs for reference.
Logged
••• retired
2d Lt USAF
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2018, 04:13:05 PM »

So if a fleece is 'Small R', is it made to fit over 'Small R' ABU's, or is it sized like a 'Small R' ABU blouse? Basically, if I wear a 'Small R' ABU blouse, should I get a 'Small R' fleece, or a 'Med R' fleece?

Negative.
It is not made to be worn that way, we're wearing it in a manner for which it was not designed.
The lighter-weight fleece was never meant to be worn over the ACU/ABU.
ECWS is a nested system of layers, cotton BDU/ABU isn't designed to be in the mix.
An oversized Polartec 300-weight Series ECWCS Cold Weather Fleece Jacket can be worn nicely over the ABU/ACU.
The lighter-weight one, not so much. Arm holes are smaller, etc.

The fleece is most certainly made to be worn over the ABU/BDU.  That is why it has name tapes and rank.
Logged
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 166
Unit: MER

« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2018, 06:22:03 PM »

The fleece is most certainly made to be worn over the ABU/BDU.  That is why it has name tapes and rank.

Incorrect.
That is not how ECWCS was designed (Google it).
We beta'd that stuff for PEO-Soldier in 01/02.
Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 166
Unit: MER

« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2018, 06:23:11 PM »

The fleece is most certainly made to be worn over the ABU/BDU.  That is why it has name tapes and rank.

100% incorrect.
That is not how ECWCS was designed nor how it's supposed to be used. (Google it).
Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
68w20
Forum Regular

Posts: 172

« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2018, 07:00:53 PM »

The fleece is most certainly made to be worn over the ABU/BDU.  That is why it has name tapes and rank.

100% incorrect.
That is not how ECWCS was designed nor how it's supposed to be used. (Google it).

That may be the use for which it was designed, but the practical reality is that it isn't used that way.  AFI 36-2903 states that it will be worn only as an outer garment.  TM 10-8415-236-10 (Army TM for the ECWCS) says that it can be worn nested within other layers of the ECWCS, or as an outer garment for utility uniforms.  We may be wearing it in a manner for which it was not designed, but so are the Army and the Air Force.
Logged
kwe1009
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 915

« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2018, 07:01:28 PM »

The fleece is most certainly made to be worn over the ABU/BDU.  That is why it has name tapes and rank.

100% incorrect.
That is not how ECWCS was designed nor how it's supposed to be used. (Google it).

Can you provide a CAP or USAF reference to back up your statement? 

The fleece is listed as an outer garment in CAPM 39-1, AFI 36-2903, and the CAP ABU Wear Guidance memo.  I am also a SNCO in the Air Force and have never seen anyone wear the fleece under their ABU shirt.  It doesn't make sense that it goes under the ABU since it has rank and name on it.  No undergarment has mandated rank and name on it.

So is the former AF Chief of Staff wearing it wrong in this picture:
Logged
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2018, 07:47:26 PM »

Both the AFI and CAPR says it's an outer-garment.  What is/was done in other branches is a moot point and irrelevant.
Logged
CAPLTC
Forum Regular

Posts: 166
Unit: MER

« Reply #20 on: February 07, 2018, 09:25:14 PM »

Yeah roger, I am familiar with USAF and Army regs.
That's not what I said. 
The point was that the GEN-III Level III Fleece Jacket referenced does indeed fit funny/oddly because the lighter-weight fleece was never designed to be worn over a BDU/ABU/ACU/OCP jacket.
There were 2 different styles of fleece jacket:
- One was designed to go over bulkier under-layers, it's 300-weight Polartec. It has armpit vents/zippers.
- The one in question was designed as an under-layer or stand-alone, it's 200-weight Polartec Thermal Pro with even lighter side panels.  Does not have armpit vents/zippers.
But whatever, you're right, it's moot.
Logged
"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they’re so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis
HGjunkie
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,619

« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2018, 04:35:15 PM »

That's an irrelevantly pedantic point to argue about. It's an outer garment, plain and simple.
Logged
••• retired
2d Lt USAF
chuckmilam
Forum Regular

Posts: 124
Unit: GLR-KY-216

« Reply #22 on: February 11, 2018, 09:41:58 PM »

Held my breath and put mine through the wash this weekend.  It survived with minimal shedding.  Whew. We'll see how it makes it through the next/end-of-season wash.
Logged
Slim
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 580

« Reply #23 on: February 12, 2018, 05:36:56 AM »

Held my breath and put mine through the wash this weekend.  It survived with minimal shedding.  Whew. We'll see how it makes it through the next/end-of-season wash.

Good luck,

I've have mine about three years, numerous washings, and several lint rollers later, it still turns the grey upholstery of my truck seat black.  I don't even bother wearing it in the truck anymore.
Logged

Slim
Turtle1
Member

Posts: 66

« Reply #24 on: February 12, 2018, 07:41:25 AM »

Good Morning regarding the shedding. If you recently bought the fleece from VG and after several washings it still sheds VG will return your money. They are aware of the problem, so I do not understand why they continue to sell defective merchandise.
Logged
Marybeth Williams
Major, CAP
SCE124
Recruit

Posts: 10

« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2018, 05:22:03 PM »

I refused to pay Vanguard for a subpar Rothco jacket that sheds! I found this jacket online for around $30 (I got mine for $24 with free shipping from Galls.com). This jacket is polar fleece, but also has an inner liner to make the jacket more water-resistant. I guess the only downside I see for this jacket is you need to have the hook and loop sewn on (it's included, but not sewn on). Anyways; Here's the link for anyone interested >>> https://www.galls.com/tru-spec-polar-fleece-jacket?PMSRCE=GAPLA&gclid=CjwKCAiA-9rTBRBNEiwAt0Znw-UCNXwn6s7MO4Lm3vyQzx8JMyc35INwbLTYhhI83-ZIygaVCv3tghoClTIQAvD_BwE
Logged
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2018, 06:30:20 PM »

That fleece looks unauthorized, the shoulders are supposed to be non-fleece (not sure exactly what the material it is. Nylon?). See this picture, posted before:
Logged
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2018, 06:53:23 PM »

That fleece looks unauthorized, the shoulders are supposed to be non-fleece (not sure exactly what the material it is. Nylon?). See this picture, posted before:


39-1 disagrees

6.1.12.2. Fleece will be acquired commercially, and will be similar in design and construction to
the USAF-style Sage Green Fleece. Members will wear fleeces that only have a very small or no
manufacturer’s emblem that is externally visible.
Logged
SCE124
Recruit

Posts: 10

« Reply #28 on: February 14, 2018, 07:13:02 PM »

That fleece looks unauthorized, the shoulders are supposed to be non-fleece (not sure exactly what the material it is. Nylon?). See this picture, posted before:


39-1 disagrees

6.1.12.2. Fleece will be acquired commercially, and will be similar in design and construction to
the USAF-style Sage Green Fleece. Members will wear fleeces that only have a very small or no
manufacturer’s emblem that is externally visible.

When it comes to the BLACK fleece for corporate uniforms the jacket I posted appears to be correct with the limited guidelines listed in 39-1. The black fleece has been around for several years and pre-dates the roll-out of the ABU for CAP. When it comes to the ABU Foilage Green fleece the product I posted WOULD NOT be allowed (but plenty of those styles can be found surplus rather than Vanguard). I wear both Corporate and USAF Style, although I tend to wear ABUs/Blues more often than not so I didn't want to spend crazy money on a black fleece; otherwise, I would've bought this one I also found!  >>> https://www.drto.com/products/ujf-b04f107-warmor-fleece-ecwcs-jacket <<< This one is pretty much an exact copy of the Foliage Fleece but looks to be a much higher quality than Vanguard's current black fleece.
Logged
I_Am_Twigs
Forum Regular

Posts: 115
Unit: RMR-ID-069

« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2018, 07:41:04 PM »

I've heard that the VG fleece sheds a lot from quite a few people, does anyone know if this one would?

https://uspatriottactical.com/ecwcs-gen-iii-level-3-usaf-fleece-jacket-foliage/
Logged
Mitchell #68874
1st Encampment 2016 
2nd Encampment 2017
3rd Encampment 2018
C/2nd Lt, CAP
 
SCE124
Recruit

Posts: 10

« Reply #30 on: February 14, 2018, 08:30:15 PM »

From what I heard and seen only the fleece jackets made by the company Rothco (both green and black) have the shedding issue. I found a surplus, military issued foilage green fleece on eBay brand new/in the package for $27 & free shipping! That seems to be the best way to go in my opinion!
Logged
hamburgee
Member

Posts: 92

« Reply #31 on: February 14, 2018, 09:07:55 PM »

I have the Rothco fleece, and I haven't had any shedding problems. It's been through at least 10 washes and still holds up great. Maybe Vanguard gets even cheaper fleeces from Rothco?
Logged
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 981
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2018, 07:54:08 PM »

That fleece looks unauthorized, the shoulders are supposed to be non-fleece (not sure exactly what the material it is. Nylon?).

I think he's wearing an Army issued Fleece, looks like the one I got from CIF.
Logged
Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2018, 09:14:03 PM »

That fleece looks unauthorized, the shoulders are supposed to be non-fleece (not sure exactly what the material it is. Nylon?).

I think he's wearing an Army issued Fleece, looks like the one I got from CIF.

As long as it's black he's good to go and authorized
Logged
shuman14
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 981
Unit: NHQ-996

« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2018, 11:31:57 PM »

As long as it's black he's good to go and authorized

Well clearly in the picture it's green.  ???
Logged
Joseph J. Clune
Major (Promotable), Military Police

USMCR: 1990 - 1992                           USAR: 1993 -1998, 2000 - Present     CAP (National Patron) 2013 - Present
INARNG: 1992 - 1993, 1998 - 2000       USCGAux: 2004 - Present
PHall
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 6,349

« Reply #35 on: February 15, 2018, 11:54:10 PM »

As long as it's black he's good to go and authorized

Well clearly in the picture it's green.  ???

You wear the green fleece with the ABU and the black fleece with the Blue BDU's.
The gentlemen in the picture are Active Duty Air Force wearing ABU's.
Logged
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,505
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2018, 12:26:03 AM »

Yup, we're done.

Click.
Logged
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Pages: 1 2 [All] Print 
CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Uniforms & Awards  |  Topic: Vanguard fleece
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.457 seconds with 25 queries.