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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Emergency Services & Operations  |  Topic: Drones used in SAR
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Author Topic: Drones used in SAR  (Read 4760 times)
etodd
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« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2017, 10:35:47 PM »

Looked in my saved grids for a bigger one, and found one I setup for 1083 acres. Using a P4 Pro and Drone Deploy software to setup and fly the grid. All vertical imagery, no obliques. 20 mp images for nice detail when zoomed in on a computer later.

Actual flying time approx 106 minutes. Flying at 400 feet and 70% overlap.  Would take 7 batteries to be safe. If a person search, the SD card could be taken out at each battery change, handed to someone with a laptop who could be looking at this set of images while the drone is continuing the grid search.

After a battery change the drone returns to the exact spot it left off. If the pilot sees something while flying, or the laptop person, the grid search can be paused to go take a look, and then resumed.

We must have lots of CAP folks that could start up with this today using member owned gear.

But ....  you know the answer to that idea.
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etodd
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« Reply #21 on: November 11, 2017, 12:52:19 AM »

An interesting article. A company getting military approval of their system:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/training-dma-yuneec-jennifer-pidgen/

[Edit: Apologies, I have some admin privs to help Pylon out behind the scenes with some site stuff, and I mashed the wrong button when attempting to quote earlier today and instead accidentally modified edtodd's message.  That was..clumsy. Sorry for any confusion -NIN]
« Last Edit: November 11, 2017, 10:55:36 PM by NIN » Logged
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NIN
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« Reply #22 on: November 11, 2017, 10:55:56 PM »

An interesting article. A company getting military approval of their system:

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/training-dma-yuneec-jennifer-pidgen/

Douglas Spotted Eagle, mentioned in the article, is a very good friend of mine.

These guys are working hard to capture sort of the "more than consumer drone, but less than a massive industrial drone" segment for things like LIDAR, thermal imaging and photography (Douglas is a long-time NAB video producer... )
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
bwana50
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« Reply #23 on: November 14, 2017, 09:31:51 PM »

Quote
Will drone pilots be required to have the Part 107? If so, how many CAP members will fork out the $150 for the test or will CAP reimburse?  CAP airplane pilots can take an online test and get it for free, so would it wind up with most drone pilots be existing Mission Pilots?
Yes.  And yes, certificated pilots can take the 107 test for free, but that doesn't necessarily mean they would all be mission pilots - could be TMPs or even just VFR pilots.  And, we might even attract existing Part 107 pilots as recruits to CAP if we could say "we have a drone program...".

Quote
Our local City, police, fire and newspaper, already have drones. The local police and sheriff BOTH have manned helicopters. If I talked to any of them representing CAP and let them know our capabilities, they would give me 'that smile' as they said 'thanks for letting us know', that lets me know I'm forgotten as soon as I'm out the door.
Exactly.  I fear CAP may already be too late to get involved in drone ops.  Still, two drones can cover a given area faster than one can, so perhaps our angle will be not so much "we can do this for you" but "we can help you do this".

Quote
After selling the so-called white elephants, how do you suggest we conduct our orientation flights?
I think I actually saw this in a CAPR somewhere, but - that's not why we have aircraft.  Sure, it's a cool benefit of being in CAP, but the aircraft fleet exists for ES missions, and we can use them for O-rides because we just happen to have them.

Quote
I just don't see the usefulness of these small drones in very many SAR situations.
Agreed that they may not be useful in all situations.  But, IMO, the cost is low enough that they can be purchased and available for use when needed.  Here's a couple ideas for situations where they might be useful:
- Ground team searches one direction, while drone searches the other direction.  Now we're covering twice as much ground with the same number of people.
- Obstacle that prevents a team from moving forward on a search.  Pop the drone up to take a look at the other side and see if there are any items of interest there.
- Time-critical missions.  Deploying a drone for a quick air search will be much faster than deploying an aircraft.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #24 on: November 14, 2017, 09:37:42 PM »

Quote

I think I actually saw this in a CAPR somewhere, but - that's not why we have aircraft.  Sure, it's a cool benefit of being in CAP, but the aircraft fleet exists for ES missions, and we can use them for O-rides because we just happen to have them.


Really? I have been in the program 20 years and this is how it has been given to me all this time. For both ES and O-flights...
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #25 on: November 15, 2017, 03:13:21 PM »

Quote

I think I actually saw this in a CAPR somewhere, but - that's not why we have aircraft.  Sure, it's a cool benefit of being in CAP, but the aircraft fleet exists for ES missions, and we can use them for O-rides because we just happen to have them.


Really? I have been in the program 20 years and this is how it has been given to me all this time. For both ES and O-flights...

Cadet Programs, Disaster Relief/SAR, and Aerospace Education are the three pillars.  "O" flights are a means to accomplish aspects of both Cadet Programs and Aerospaced Education...  An important means, certainly.  Also "O" flights may be a valuable perk for recruiting and Cadet retention.  For some individuals learning and doing mission related drone piloting skills might be an equal or greater draw than "O" flights, depending upon how that tool is presented and trained.  In any case, automated cockpits (where a 'pilot' is an optional feature) are clearly on the horizon.  Opportunities for cadets to acquire deeper understanding of drones may offer greater value than the "O" flight syllabus presents.
« Last Edit: November 15, 2017, 03:25:59 PM by Live2Learn » Logged
Live2Learn
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« Reply #26 on: November 15, 2017, 04:04:11 PM »

Here's a pretty good example of how a drone is a better SAR tool than an aircraft.

https://www.hubcitytimes.com/2017/11/14/drone-public-safety-dog-search-rescue/

"Today it was somebody’s dog. Tomorrow it could be somebody’s child or somebody’s grandparent,” Bodendorfer said.

“The reality is that this is a very hard operation when you think about the size of the dog  (or a person)  and the area we were covering. … Even though the drone was a tool that helped us cover so much ground, it wasn’t the right tool for the job,” he added.

Bodendorfer said with infrared technology — a thermal camera — the search for Jax could have continued into the night and would have led to a quicker rescue.
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sardak
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« Reply #27 on: November 15, 2017, 04:33:45 PM »

Here's a search from two years ago in which a sUAS with an infrared camera found a missing horse.

http://kdvr.com/2015/10/18/local-store-operator-helps-find-missing-castle-rock-horse-with-a-drone/



Mike
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etodd
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« Reply #28 on: November 15, 2017, 06:32:18 PM »

My example at the top of page two of this thread of a 1000 acre search ... give me a few minutes notice and travel time and I can be there searching.

Call 2 hours before sun-down and we can maybe locate before the sun goes down. Call us to use the airplane and it'll have to wait 12 hours until sun up.

These smaller drones cannot be used in the same way as a plane. The batteries start to auto 'spin down' after a few days. They cannot be left at a hangar or CAP office. They have to be maintained. Another reason member-owned gear would work best in many instances.

Don't make me have to spend time trying to enter drone sorties in WMIRS and have to find a FRO. If so, may as well wait until tomorrow again. The local police, fire, etc., folks we would compete with, would be 'out the door' and flying in minutes.

Its all apples and oranges with airplane usage. Any attempt to try and make drone usage the same ... will fail.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #29 on: November 15, 2017, 06:38:16 PM »

Only drones modified to self-charge batteries would overcome limitation on battery as posted by eTodd. As in having a drone with solar cells on their wings. As they fly, their battery is charged, but what will happen at night?

As of now, I do not think that CAP is ready to just take over drones as part of our ES.

The few real-world examples notwithstanding.
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etodd
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« Reply #30 on: November 15, 2017, 06:56:57 PM »

Only drones modified to self-charge batteries would overcome limitation on battery as posted by eTodd. As in having a drone with solar cells on their wings. As they fly, their battery is charged, but what will happen at night?

All the DJI type lithium batteries 'self-drain' electronically after a few days. Not good for them to remain on the shelf fully charged.

Quote
As of now, I do not think that CAP is ready to just take over drones as part of our ES.

Agree ... partially for reasons I stated above. The CAP 'powers that be' I don't think are ready for something so fast moving and changing as I described above. Other agencies would be flying within minutes. CAP simply isn't setup that way and not sure we, as an organization, can compete in that arena.  We relish our systems that eat up time. Good for airplane use, but will make drones extremely difficult.
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etodd
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« Reply #31 on: November 15, 2017, 07:01:08 PM »

Bottom line. If you are currently a Part 107 pilot and want to use your gear for SAR, then go visit your local EMA, police and fire folks, and volunteer on your own. NOT as part of CAP, and don't wear your uniform. Just go 'make a difference' as John Q. Public and help. :)
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2017, 10:55:14 AM »

Bottom line. If you are currently a Part 107 pilot and want to use your gear for SAR, then go visit your local EMA, police and fire folks, and volunteer on your own. NOT as part of CAP, and don't wear your uniform. Just go 'make a difference' as John Q. Public and help. :)

Agree.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:34:07 AM by Live2Learn » Logged
Live2Learn
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« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2017, 11:32:03 AM »

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2017/december/11/the-art-of-disaster-response-by-drone

Nice discussion of 'drones' and DR on the AOPA website.

And as a reminder, this NTSB describes a litany of errors and violations that the drone operator committed in his September 2017 mid air collision with a Blackhawk helicopter.   Anyone who wants to conduct 'do it yourself' SAR with their toy drone should keep these in mind.

https://app.ntsb.gov/pdfgenerator/ReportGeneratorFile.ashx?EventID=20170922X54600&AKey=1&RType=HTML&IType=IA%EF%BB%BF
« Last Edit: December 14, 2017, 11:35:09 AM by Live2Learn » Logged
Live2Learn
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« Reply #34 on: December 19, 2017, 11:41:29 AM »

It looks like the FAA and a bunch of Federal, state, and perhaps local jurisdictions are requesting specific prohibitions for drone flights conducted within certain (sometimes large) airspaces.  Here's the FAA news release from yesterday afternoon (EST)  that appears to respond to the current Christmas sales rush to put a drone in every home.



Quote

News & Update

 
 
Drone over homes in residential areas

FAA Restricts Drone Operations Over DOE Facilities


December 18 - At the request of U.S. national security and law enforcement agencies, the Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) is using its existing authority under Title 14 of the Code of Federal Regulations 99.7 Special Security Instructions to address concerns about unauthorized drone operations over seven Department of Energy (DOE) facilities.

The FAA and DOE have agreed to restrict drone flights up to 400 feet within the lateral boundaries of these sites:

Hanford Site, Franklin County, WA

Pantex Site, Panhandle, TX

Los Alamos National Laboratory, Los Alamos, NM

Idaho National Laboratory, Idaho Falls, ID

Savannah River National Laboratory, Aiken, SC

Y-12 National Security Site, Oak Ridge, TN

Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Oak Ridge, TN

The airspace restrictions are shown in an FAA Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) and the details about where drone flights are restricted are available here [link broken in cut/paste operation].

These UAS National Security restrictions are pending until they become effective on December 29, 2017. There are only a few exceptions that permit drone flights within these restrictions, and they must be coordinated with the individual facility and/or the FAA.

To ensure the public is aware of these restricted locations, the FAA has created an interactive map online. The link to these restrictions is also included in the FAA's B4UFLYmobile app. The app will be updated within 60 days to reflect these airspace restrictions. Additional information, including frequently asked questions, is available on the FAA's UAS website.

Operators who violate the airspace restrictions may be subject to enforcement action, including potential civil penalties and criminal charges.

This is the first time the agency has placed specific airspace restrictions for unmanned aircraft, or drones, over DOE sites. The FAA has placed similar airspace restrictions over military bases that currently remain in place, as well as more recently issued UAS flight restrictions over 10 Department of Interior facilities, including several large dams and iconic landmarks.

The FAA is considering additional requests from other federal security agencies for restrictions using the FAA's 99.7 authority to support national security and defense, as they are received.

The text of the NOTAM is as follows:

FDC 7/6429 FDC SECURITY SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS FOR UNMANNED AIRCRAFT SYSTEM (UAS) OPERATIONS FOR MULTIPLE LOCATIONS NATIONWIDE. THIS NOTAM SUPPLEMENTS THE UAS-SPECIFIC SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS DEFINED BY FDC 7/7282 AND IMPLEMENTED PURSUANT 14 C.F.R. 99.7 AND HAVE BEEN APPLIED TO AIRSPACE OVER ADDITIONAL NATIONAL SECURITY SENSITIVE FACILITIES. THE UPDATED LIST OF AFFECTED AIRSPACE AND ASSOCIATED PROTECTED LOCATIONS, AND OTHER IMPORTANT INFORMATION ARE PROVIDED AT THE FOLLOWING FAA WEBSITE: http://HTTP://UAS.FAA.OPENDATA.ARCGIS.COM. SEE FDC 7/7282 FOR COMPLETE INFORMATION ON THESE SPECIAL SECURITY INSTRUCTIONS. 1712290001-1902012359   
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sardak
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« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2017, 03:24:00 PM »

Quote
It looks like the FAA and a bunch of Federal, state, and perhaps local jurisdictions are requesting specific prohibitions for drone flights conducted within certain (sometimes large) airspaces.  Here's the FAA news release from yesterday afternoon (EST)  that appears to respond to the current Christmas sales rush to put a drone in every home.
No, DOE is just late to the party. DOD started this process some time ago, even the missle silos are marked. Here is the FAA map showing the no-fly zones and altitude restricted zones around airports. DOE sites are already showing up (scroll down to Visualize it) https://uas-faa.opendata.arcgis.com/

Mike
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Live2Learn
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« Reply #36 on: December 21, 2017, 01:32:00 AM »

No, DOE is just late to the party. DOD started this process some time ago, even the missle silos are marked. Here is the FAA map showing the no-fly zones and altitude restricted zones around airports. DOE sites are already showing up (scroll down to Visualize it) https://uas-faa.opendata.arcgis.com/

Mike

You're right about DOE's late arrival.  It appears more late comers will likely soon join the line.  When all the dust settles I think recreational drones may be disinvited from considerable airspace.

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GroundHawg
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« Reply #37 on: February 09, 2018, 10:51:08 AM »

I saw a video at our meeting last night about drones and their possible use for SAR. The specific unit used was a preprogrammed autonomous drone that flew a predetermined grid, and took video of the track. I'll have to get the URL from the presenter and post it later.

Did you ever post a link to this video? I would be interested in the "Roomba" approach to UAV SAR ops
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etodd
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« Reply #38 on: February 09, 2018, 09:18:03 PM »

I saw a video at our meeting last night about drones and their possible use for SAR. The specific unit used was a preprogrammed autonomous drone that flew a predetermined grid, and took video of the track. I'll have to get the URL from the presenter and post it later.

Did you ever post a link to this video? I would be interested in the "Roomba" approach to UAV SAR ops

Roomba is random.   Easy to miss spots.   Any number of existing apps like Drone Deploy make it very easy to cover a grid using flight lines with overlapping photos. Land, swap batts and SD card, and start the next grid while someone puts the card in a laptop and looks over the photos.

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SarDragon
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« Reply #39 on: February 09, 2018, 09:39:00 PM »

I saw a video at our meeting last night about drones and their possible use for SAR. The specific unit used was a preprogrammed autonomous drone that flew a predetermined grid, and took video of the track. I'll have to get the URL from the presenter and post it later.

Did you ever post a link to this video? I would be interested in the "Roomba" approach to UAV SAR ops

That member has been away. I'll ask him at our next meeting.
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Dave Bowles
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