AFCENTI 36-2903, OCP = ACU, Ball caps and patches are back.

Started by Eclipse, September 01, 2017, 03:37:19 am

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DocJekyll

Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 09:20:44 pm
Quote from: abdsp51 on September 01, 2017, 07:30:31 pm
Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 06:31:26 pm
As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.


Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.


You're part of the exempt classified unit, so you're good.


Don't know what you're talking about, and neither do you. *random guys in black suits come from nowhere and carry you off into the distance*
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


Spam

At last weekends Commanders Call, I brought a digital floor scale down in front of the assembled Group and Squadron Commanders, and the boss and my brother CV and I self-weighed in front of them, read the hard copy of the applicable 39-1 page, and announced our results.  We then told the assembled commanders that we expected them to expect ALL of their people who want to wear USAF style to do the same.

I cautioned the commanders against lecturing members on their weight; their weight per se is not our business, but members desiring to wear the USAF style uniform should expect to be able to demonstrate compliance with 39-1. We want people of all talents and abilities in CAP - but are required by regulations to put a fence around the optional wear of USAF style.

Continued integrity issues with simple compliance on this issue are leading indicators of unsafe attitudes towards far more serious compliance with operational issues. (I think Patton probably would have phrased that more succinctly, but I'm not Patton).

V/r
Spam

PS, for the record, I am 6'4" and 310. My eServices record matches that. Noncompliant, which is why I have a closet of dusty USAF style. If a member is self delusional enough to try to sneak an extra 20 lbs in on top of the added CAP weight margin, you will find me unsympathetic... enough so to initiate an adverse member action, as we cant afford to lose base access, etc.

PPS now why are we wasting time talking about AFCENT directives.  :-\


etodd

While sitting around awhile at the last Eval, waiting for my flight release, I sat in a corner, watching the dozens of folks milling around, in and out getting their work done. When it comes to uniforms, my general observation that day was the folks in polos seemed more casual, at ease, and happy. The others just seemed so tense. I dunno. Just something I've noticed.
MS - MO - AP - MP - FRO - ESO

sUAS MP - sUAS Instructor - sUAS Check Pilot

Майор Хаткевич

Quote from: etodd on September 02, 2017, 12:06:37 am
While sitting around awhile at the last Eval, waiting for my flight release, I sat in a corner, watching the dozens of folks milling around, in and out getting their work done. When it comes to uniforms, my general observation that day was the folks in polos seemed more casual, at ease, and happy. The others just seemed so tense. I dunno. Just something I've noticed.



Well sure, confirmation bias is a thing.

Eclipse

+1 Perhaps they were taking their role and situation in a more serious, business like fashion.

One thing that makes me crazy is people who treat ICPs like a gardening club, both in manner of dress and behavior.
People are there to work.  When you're done. GO HOME.



Mitchell 1969

Quote from: NIN on September 01, 2017, 06:10:55 pm


Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on September 01, 2017, 05:51:43 pm
+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.


Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.



For all the talk about "parent organization," the reality is that more CAP members work with and relate to other CAP members than they do to USAF members. That is especially true when it comes time to climb into utility type uniforms. Getting them into one WAS a lost opportunity.


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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.

jjmalott



Jeff Malott, Lt Col, CAP
National eLearning Coordinator

Eclipse

Quote from: Mitchell 1969 on September 08, 2017, 06:33:45 am
For all the talk about "parent organization," the reality is that more CAP members work with and relate to other CAP members than they do to USAF members. That is especially true when it comes time to climb into utility type uniforms. Getting them into one WAS a lost opportunity.


Very true - the days of the regular CAP-RAP visits are long gone, so for the average member who doesn't staff an encampment,
get involved in ES, or participate in NCSAs, they may literally never see or meet anyone in the USAF, or any other service for that matter.



CAPLTC

Quote from: Jester on September 01, 2017, 03:54:06 am
I wonder how they'll look with black boots.

They will look VASTLY better than this bizarro tiger stripe pattern currently approved.

"Find the enemy that wants to end this experiment (in American democracy) and kill every one of them until they're so sick of the killing that they leave us and our freedoms intact." -- SECDEF Mattis

TX CAP Mom

So in your honest opinion, should I not purchase my cadet a set of ABUs? He has BDUs and Blues as provided by his Squadron. But he needs another set apparently for encampment and they don't have anything in his size. But more importantly he WANTS the ABUs as he perceives them as more important. Most of his staff wears them so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta have 'em.

I can invest ~$50 and get him his ABUs but I do hate to do that if another switch is imminent. What say you? Don't worry about more changes for a 13 year old that will outgrow what he has now anyways? Seems like to me if he got a year out of them I'd be fine with that. Think we have that long before more changes trickle down?

Spam

Hi, Mom (*grins)

No, don't worry.

I would urge you to go ahead and purchase the ABUs, and kit him out accordingly. This thread is interesting but entirely speculative, based on local uniform changes for personnel on the other side of the world, not your guy. Stick with the ABUs, and be sure to get them nice and big and baggy for him to grow into. It will be the 2020s or later before CAP ever goes this route and even then we'll have a two to three year phase in period (as we do now with ABUs).

V/r
Spam


Jester

Quote from: TX CAP Mom on September 28, 2017, 05:23:27 am
So in your honest opinion, should I not purchase my cadet a set of ABUs? He has BDUs and Blues as provided by his Squadron. But he needs another set apparently for encampment and they don't have anything in his size. But more importantly he WANTS the ABUs as he perceives them as more important. Most of his staff wears them so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta have 'em.

I can invest ~$50 and get him his ABUs but I do hate to do that if another switch is imminent. What say you? Don't worry about more changes for a 13 year old that will outgrow what he has now anyways? Seems like to me if he got a year out of them I'd be fine with that. Think we have that long before more changes trickle down?


Concur with Spam.  If it happens at all, late 2020s is the absolute earliest I could ever envision it with CAP (ABUs aren't even phased in completely until 2021), and I would probably say 2030s is the more reasonable estimate.

But, as said earlier, this is all speculation and a whole lot of dominoes have to fall for this to even be a possibility for CAP.

But I swear, if in 2030 or whenever we get OCPs, we're still stuck with black boots, I'm burning my membership card.  :D

BuckeyeDEJ

Quote from: Storm Chaser on September 01, 2017, 07:26:56 pm
The Air Force is not pushing for us to wear their uniforms; we are pushing to continue wearing Air Force-style uniforms even though we know many of our members are unable to do so, yet their contributions to CAP and the Air Force are significant.

Wanting a single uniform that all our members can wear is not "divorcing ourselves" from the Air Force; it's actually acknowledging that we are a single organization and that, while we are the Air Force Auxiliary, we're not service members, but volunteer civilians performing a non-combat role for the Air Force.


Funny, but the Air Force side of the house -- and I don't mean CAP-USAF, but further up the food chain -- has been asking why CAP has dissed the "auxiliary" status and nomenclature. Seems Ma Blue wants to draw us closer. I have no problem with that.

And yet another uniform thread. For the love of Pete, is that all CAP people can do -- complain about uniforms?


CAP since 1984: Lt Col; former C/Lt Col; MO, MRO, MS, IO; former sq CC/CD/PA; group and wing PA, natl cmte mbr, nat'l staff member, at region level now
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Eclipse

September 29, 2017, 03:47:33 am #33 Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 06:08:09 am by SarDragon
Quote from: TX CAP Mom on September 28, 2017, 05:23:27 am
So in your honest opinion, should I not purchase my cadet a set of ABUs? He has BDUs and Blues as provided by his Squadron. But he needs another set apparently for encampment and they don't have anything in his size. But more importantly he WANTS the ABUs as he perceives them as more important. Most of his staff wears them so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta have 'em.


If he has BDUs, why waste the money until he actually needs another uniform - if he goes to encampment, and they require more then one
set, that's a good "excuse", but beyond that, neither is more "important" then the other.

QuoteI can invest ~$50 and get him his ABUs but I do hate to do that if another switch is imminent. What say you? Don't worry about more changes for a 13 year old that will outgrow what he has now anyways? Seems like to me if he got a year out of them I'd be fine with that. Think we have that long before more changes trickle down?


You're more likely looking at closer to $100+.  That's assuming you do your own sewing.
Remember you in addition to the shirt and pants, you need new t-shirts, belt, hat, and all new insignia / tapes.

He can wear woodland outerwear until June, but after that will need that as well.

[fixed quotes]



TX CAP Mom

September 29, 2017, 04:02:34 am #34 Last Edit: September 29, 2017, 06:10:24 am by SarDragon
Quote from: Jester on September 28, 2017, 06:03:11 am
Quote from: TX CAP Mom on September 28, 2017, 05:23:27 am
So in your honest opinion, should I not purchase my cadet a set of ABUs? He has BDUs and Blues as provided by his Squadron. But he needs another set apparently for encampment and they don't have anything in his size. But more importantly he WANTS the ABUs as he perceives them as more important. Most of his staff wears them so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta have 'em.

I can invest ~$50 and get him his ABUs but I do hate to do that if another switch is imminent. What say you? Don't worry about more changes for a 13 year old that will outgrow what he has now anyways? Seems like to me if he got a year out of them I'd be fine with that. Think we have that long before more changes trickle down?


Concur with Spam.  If it happens at all, late 2020s is the absolute earliest I could ever envision it with CAP (ABUs aren't even phased in completely until 2021), and I would probably say 2030s is the more reasonable estimate.

But, as said earlier, this is all speculation and a whole lot of dominoes have to fall for this to even be a possibility for CAP.

But I swear, if in 2030 or whenever we get OCPs, we're still stuck with black boots, I'm burning my membership card.  :D
Quote from: Eclipse on September 29, 2017, 03:47:33 am
Quote from: TX CAP Mom on September 28, 2017, 05:23:27 am
So in your honest opinion, should I not purchase my cadet a set of ABUs? He has BDUs and Blues as provided by his Squadron. But he needs another set apparently for encampment and they don't have anything in his size. But more importantly he WANTS the ABUs as he perceives them as more important. Most of his staff wears them so... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Gotta have 'em.


QuoteIf he has BDUs, why waste the money until he actually needs another uniform - if he goes to encampment, and they require more then one
set, that's a good "excuse", but beyond that, neither is more "important" then the other.

I can invest ~$50 and get him his ABUs but I do hate to do that if another switch is imminent. What say you? Don't worry about more changes for a 13 year old that will outgrow what he has now anyways? Seems like to me if he got a year out of them I'd be fine with that. Think we have that long before more changes trickle down?


You're more likely looking at closer to $100+.  That's assuming you do your own sewing.
Remember you in addition to the shirt and pants, you need new t-shirts, belt, hat, and all new insignia / tapes.

He can wear woodland outerwear until June, but after that will need that as well.
Quote from: Spam on September 28, 2017, 05:49:24 am
Hi, Mom (*grins)

No, don't worry.

I would urge you to go ahead and purchase the ABUs, and kit him out accordingly. This thread is interesting but entirely speculative, based on local uniform changes for personnel on the other side of the world, not your guy. Stick with the ABUs, and be sure to get them nice and big and baggy for him to grow into. It will be the 2020s or later before CAP ever goes this route and even then we'll have a two to three year phase in period (as we do now with ABUs).

V/r
Spam

Thanks for the replies. I found pants, blouse, and cover for <$50 at local military surplus so that's good. I did forget that he'll need a new belt and he's got the right t-shirts already. So it's all good. I also was given extra tapes when I ordered them, and had the foresight to already have an extra Wing patch on hand too. Eclipse, he needs this second set for Encampment in a couple of months, not next summer. He'll go to the Winter one.

Interesting that you mention the outerwear. I have NO idea what to get him for colder weather. Is this a good place to ask? I don't understand the sections in 39-1 about this, so please don't point me there. We are in TX so we don't need much for colder weather, perhaps warm long sleeve shirts suffice, but it does sometimes get pretty cold. Is there any jacket I could get him that he could wear with both Blues and BDU/ABU? Like a plain black coat of some kind?

[fixed quotes]

Spam

Quote from: BuckeyeDEJ on September 29, 2017, 03:39:07 am

Funny, but the Air Force side of the house -- and I don't mean CAP-USAF, but further up the food chain -- has been asking why CAP has dissed the "auxiliary" status and nomenclature. Seems Ma Blue wants to draw us closer. I have no problem with that.



I hate to throw out that super snarky "Cite, Please" rejoinder, but, Buckeye, if you please, where did you hear that USAF senior leadership had made such comments? That is completely new to me.

Thanks - I am interested.
Spam


Spam

Hi again TX Mom.

Good deal - and good on you!

For cold weather gear, there have been several threads on that here. Rather than laborious cut and paste, you might want to try the "search" tool, searching for "ABUs" + "Cold".

The short answer is, many under layers to start with (long johns, thermal shirts, socks, etc.) coupled with authorized ABU outerwear, coupled with existing 39-1 authorization to wear headgear to keep little ears nice and warm, and finally there is a supplemental letter authorizing the wear of woodland camo Field Jackets until phase out.

That's it - no plain black coats authorized (for ABUs). No civilian jackets at all, in fact.

Best wishes,
Spam

Edit: here are the current references. I omitted the goretex parks, for example:

https://www.capmembers.com/cap_national_hq/cap-transition-to-abus-announced

https://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/UPDATED_ABU_wear_instruction_20_Jul_F9C2512038FC2.pdf

DocJekyll

Hey Spam,

There's a more up to date wear memorandum (Oct 24th):

http://capnhq.custhelp.com/ci/fattach/get/1220/0/session/L2F2LzEvdGltZS8xNTA2Njg1MTQxL3NpZC91OXBTTlZ0bg==/filename/UPDATED+ABU+wear+instructions+%2824+October+2016%29.pdf

looks like it went missing from Capmembers though? Odd.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


Spam


Stonewall