AFCENTI 36-2903, OCP = ACU, Ball caps and patches are back.

Started by Eclipse, September 01, 2017, 03:37:19 am

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Eclipse

With reference to this, http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=22315.0

Enjoy.

http://soldiersystems.net/2017/09/01/afcenti-36-2903/

Major Revisions to AFCENTI 36-2903:
- Expanded wear guidance of the Airman Combat Uniform (ACU), all variations, which were previously referred to as OCPs, Multicam, or Scorpion Pattern
- Clarified guidance for ACU wear of patches, badges and insignias
- Clarification on the prohibition to mix and match camouflage patterns
- Clarification of the wear of rings
- Standard Uniform Postures have been removed but may be addressed in local guidance
- Authorized AEW or AEG/CCs to dictate wear of Airman Combat Shirt (ACS) for those who work outdoors
- Authorized ball caps with ACUs
- Mandated wear of Commanders Insignia Pin

AFCENT will mandate AOR-wide wear of the ACU (non Fire Resistant version) in 2018 with further implementation timeline to follow.







Yes, this currently applies only to AF Central, but that's just likely a matter of time. 
More evidence the USAF will be out of the ABU before CAP is done getting in it.






PHall

No, does not mean that at all. The ONLY authorized "combat" uniform in the CENTCOM AOR for Army and Air Force personnel is the OCP.
And it has been since the OCP came about. Before that it was the ACU.

Jester

I'm sure we'll see someone post pics of an OCP top with CAP tapes and patches soon.

Cue the next decade-long cry for a uniform switch.

I wonder how they'll look with black boots.

LATORRECA


abdsp51

Quote from: PHall on September 01, 2017, 03:53:36 am
No, does not mean that at all. The ONLY authorized "combat" uniform in the CENTCOM AOR for Army and Air Force personnel is the OCP.
And it has been since the OCP came about. Before that it was the ACU.


Yes and no.  It's all been location specific.  Deployed to CENTCOM since ACUs came out and never wore them.  And its only been within the last few years that OCPs have been required..

NIN

Please explain how an AFCENT instruction applies to CAP?

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on September 01, 2017, 01:44:46 pm
Please explain how an AFCENT instruction applies to CAP?


It doesn't, however it's another indicator that the USAF is working to shape the OCPs into its own image
and is clearly working to move the entire force in that direction, and historically CAP has been
somewhat distracted by what it's older cousin wears.

If CAP adopted it's own uniform, these conversations would be purely anecdotally interesting,
however as it stands, CAP is being set up for all it's "affinity" work to be for naught before the process is
even complete.



Brit_in_CAP

Quote from: Eclipse on September 01, 2017, 04:10:08 pm

If CAP adopted it's own uniform, these conversations would be purely anecdotally interesting,
however as it stands, CAP is being set up for all it's "affinity" work to be for naught before the process is
even complete.

+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed. 

NIN



Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on September 01, 2017, 05:51:43 pm
+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.


Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.

Darin Ninness, Col, CAP
Wing Dude
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
Nothing posted on CAPTalk should be considered policy unless otherwise stated
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2020 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.

JoeTomasone


ZigZag911

Quote from: NIN on September 01, 2017, 06:10:55 pm


Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on September 01, 2017, 05:51:43 pm
+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.


Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.


Honestly, it would probably improve our standing in the eyes of the actual members of our parent organization if we -- at least senior members -- looked less like they do.

Many, if not most, of us are middle aged or older and simply do not (in some instances, cannot) meet USAF height/weight standards).

Air Force personnel that know what we do appreciate our contributions, but are uneasy about appearance.

Air Force personnel that are not familiar with us, in my experience, harbor some level of disdain or resent,ent.

If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.


Eclipse

Quote from: NIN on September 01, 2017, 06:10:55 pm
I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.


The assumption that having a CAP-specific uniform somehow separates or divorces CAP from the USAF is the fallacy
that allows the uniform carousel to continue, especially in light of the fact that arguably more then 1/2 the adult membership
isn't allowed to wear the USAF variants.

So those in whites and CFUs are divorced from CAP?

A single uniform, which would enhance professionalism and appearance, without the temptation to "fudge 5 50lbs"
would go alot further towards the relationship the the current situation of far too many members, even many in
positions of national leadership, ignore the regs and "do what they will".

Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 01, 2017, 06:22:56 pm
If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.


This.



Holding Pattern

Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 01, 2017, 06:22:56 pm

If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.


That's not how you show respect for the uniform. Respect would be working with your members to make sure they are compliant when wearing the uniform.

Holding Pattern

As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.

Eclipse

Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 06:29:39 pm
Quote from: ZigZag911 on September 01, 2017, 06:22:56 pm

If CAP showed some respect for the USAF uniform, by getting all senior mebers out of it, our relationship with the rest of the "Total Force" would, in my opinion, improve considerably.


That's not how you show respect for the uniform. Respect would be working with your members to make sure they are compliant when wearing the uniform.


If the standards were universally enforced, there's be a lot less blues and ABUs and a lot more white and CFU at every function and meeting.
Absent the will to enforce, your only two other options are abandonment of the option, or hypocrisy.



stillamarine

Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 06:31:26 pm
As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.


Do many people carry scales in their planes for people? People tell the drivers license place, that places a number on an official document and they are always honest [/sarcasm]
Tim Gardiner, 1st LT, CAP

USMC AD 1996-2001
USMCR    2001-2005  Admiral, Great State of Nebraska Navy  MS, MO, UDF
tim.gardiner@gmail.com

Eclipse

I've argued for years there should be an annual weigh-in, the response is generally that it's
unworkable, which is ridiculous.

If you want to wear USAF combos, you get weighed-in at join or renewal by the CC, and some symbol or another
goes on your ID.  Don't want to weigh-in, no issue. 

Also no symbol and no USAFs.

Easy-peasy.



Storm Chaser

Quote from: NIN on September 01, 2017, 06:10:55 pm


Quote from: Brit_in_CAP on September 01, 2017, 05:51:43 pm
+1.  Having our own uniform was an opportunity missed.


Missed in what way?

I'm genuinely curious how further divorcing ourselves from the organization we're the auxiliary of is a missed opportunity.


Air Force civilian employees and contractors are part of the Total Force, yet they don't wear an Air Force uniform. Most civilian security guards at Air Force bases wear uniforms that do not resemble Air Force uniforms at all, yet they're also part of the Total Force.

We are part of the Air Force Total Force because of what we do in support of the Air Force and our Nation, not because of what we wear. If that was the case, then many of our members would not be part of the Total Force, yet they are.

The Air Force is not pushing for us to wear their uniforms; we are pushing to continue wearing Air Force-style uniforms even though we know many of our members are unable to do so, yet their contributions to CAP and the Air Force are significant.

Wanting a single uniform that all our members can wear is not "divorcing ourselves" from the Air Force; it's actually acknowledging that we are a single organization and that, while we are the Air Force Auxiliary, we're not service members, but volunteer civilians performing a non-combat role for the Air Force.

abdsp51

Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 06:31:26 pm
As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.


Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.

Holding Pattern

Quote from: abdsp51 on September 01, 2017, 07:30:31 pm
Quote from: Mordecai on September 01, 2017, 06:31:26 pm
As for enforcement, that is easy. Require every member wearing the AF uniform to be put in the sky once a year. Pilots will take weight/balance notes at that point and by doing so also verify that the member is compliant weight wise.


Good luck with that.  I have no desire to be in a light aircraft and I sure as heck would fight any idea to put me in one just to find out if I am within H/W.


You're part of the exempt classified unit, so you're good.