Do you have to shine boots for ABU's

Started by jfkspotting, July 21, 2017, 03:05:42 am

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jfkspotting

Just until now, I've been under the impression that boots have to be shined for both ABU's and BDU's, since both my flight sergeant and my flight commander have enforced these regulations. I've heard from hear-say that this isn't necessary to.

*I HAVE SEARCHED AND SEARCHED USING THE SEARCH FEATURE ALREADY*

PHall

Yes you have to shine them. They're the same boots you wore with the BDU's.

SarDragon

Quote from: CAPM 39-16.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.
Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Adam B

I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.
Adam

kwe1009

July 21, 2017, 02:18:21 pm #4 Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 07:01:20 pm by SarDragon
Quote from: Adam B on July 21, 2017, 01:41:18 pm
I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.


That is true but in this case it would be an unlawful order since a commander can't go against regulations.

JFKSpotting, you ask a ton of questions that a quick look in a reg or an email to your chain of command could answer.  I highly encourage you to talk to your chain of command (cadet and Senior Member) to get answers to your questions if you can't find them in regulations.

[fixed quote]

Levi Lockling

Quote from: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 03:49:04 am
Quote from: CAPM 39-16.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.


That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.
Capt Levi H. Lockling
SSgt, USAF, 1A851J, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

PHall

Quote from: Levi Lockling on July 22, 2017, 03:31:52 am
Quote from: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 03:49:04 am
Quote from: CAPM 39-16.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.


That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.


And good repair means black and shiny.

Levi Lockling

Quote from: PHall on July 22, 2017, 03:35:31 am
Quote from: Levi Lockling on July 22, 2017, 03:31:52 am
Quote from: SarDragon on July 21, 2017, 03:49:04 am
Quote from: CAPM 39-16.4. Footwear.
6.4.1.4. Boots. Black combat boots will be without design and can be worn with the service
dress and service uniforms. They will be highly polished, high gloss or patent leather.


That's only in regards to the Service dress and Blues. They only need to be in good repair for ABU/BDU.


And good repair means black and shiny.

I think you dropped this: "/s"

But seriously. If the gods that be wanted the same level of shine, or any level of shine on ABU/BDU combat boots as they do with Service Dress combat boots, then they would have worded it very similarly  to the chapter quoted above.
Capt Levi H. Lockling
SSgt, USAF, 1A851J, 41ECS
Charlie flight, NBB 2013

SarDragon

They don't need to be spit shined. I spend ten minutes once a month to keep my 25+ yo boots in acceptable condition. Brush off the dirt, slap on a coat of polish, brush, buff, and good until next time.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

SarDragon

Oh, and they get a dye job once a year.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
50 Year Member
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret

Jester

What about black boots that aren't meant to be shined?

I've got my eye on a couple (one Danner and one Lowa) that are non-polishable. If I have to wear boots that look stupid with ABUs, I might as well get the low-maintenance aspect of sage boots.

DocJekyll

Emphasis mine -

QuoteCAPR 39-1
6.4.3. Footwear (males/females) Combat boots. Will be worn with the BDU, or the flight duty
uniform. Black, with or without safety toe, plain rounded toe or rounded capped toe with or without
perforated seam. Zipper or elastic inserts optional, mesh inserts (for "jungle boot" style) are optional;
smooth or scotch-grained leather or man-made material, and may have a high gloss or patent finish. The
black combat boot can be worn (optional) with the service dress and service uniforms when not wearing a
skirt, maternity service dress and/or maternity jumper. Laces will either be tied and tucked in the boot or
tied and wrapped around the boot. No bowtie bootlaces will be visible. Any logos will be the same color
as the boot.

ABU Wear Memorandum updated effective 24 October 2016:
"Footwear. Black combat boots."


So, let's add some definitions:
Patent leather - is a type of coated leather that has a very glossy, shiny finish.
High Gloss - A surface shininess or luster. 2. A kind of paint that dries to a shiny finish.
and lastly...
"May" - v. a choice to act or not, or a promise of a possibility, as distinguished from "shall," which makes it imperative.

So, you MAY have shiny boots, but it's not necessarily a requirement. {edit: the sentence could also be interpreted to say that you MAY choose option one OR option 2, either high gloss OR patent finish} That being said, shoe polish does many good things for boots and I highly recommend polishing them. I don't shine mine to bounce lasers off them and hit the moon. I simply shine enough to protect. If you want to go full black mirrors, so be it.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


PHall

Quote from: Jester on July 22, 2017, 10:38:14 am
What about black boots that aren't meant to be shined?

I've got my eye on a couple (one Danner and one Lowa) that are non-polishable. If I have to wear boots that look stupid with ABUs, I might as well get the low-maintenance aspect of sage boots.



Well the Updated ABU Authorization Letter just says "Black Combat Boots". Which is exactly what is authorized in the current 39-1 for BDU's.
So if you can legally wear them with BDU's then they're good for wear in ABU's too.

Adam B

Quote from: kwe1009 on July 21, 2017, 02:18:21 pm
Quote from: Adam B on July 21, 2017, 01:41:18 pm
I'll just add here, that if your commander issues a directive (provided that it is legal, ethical, and safe), you should probably follow it.

Saying "XoCAPDuDeXo on the internet said I don't have to," is not going to win you any points with your higher-ups.


That is true but in this case it would be an unlawful order since a commander can't go against regulations.


Wait, what?
How would shining you boots violate regulations?

The "Wear Instructions" state:
"Footwear. Black combat boot"

That's all.
Polishing your boots is basic maintenance. It keeps the leather serviceable, and aids in keeping water out.
It's certainly doesn't violate the stringent and detailed regulatory requirements of being both "black" and a "combat boot".

Adam

Eclipse

July 24, 2017, 02:09:03 pm #14 Last Edit: July 24, 2017, 02:13:22 pm by Eclipse
If they are shine-able, shine them, if they are tactical mat finish, keep them clean.

I use regular polish for 5-10 minutes for the shiney jump boots once a year, Windex on the Corfams,
and Dr. Bailey's on the tac boots.  If I've spent more then a couple hours total in 18 years making boots look
nice I would be surprised. If you're using a lighter, alcohol, side dressing, or any of the other cadet time wasters
you need to find a better way to burn your day, like checking the height of the grass hourly.

I get the social / team building aspect of the nightly boot epoxy, so whatever, but beyond that, it's not necessary.

Sage is never going to happen.

Next old problem solved via search, Google, or asking your CC first.



Eclipse

And FWIW, I have seen someone put what was essentially a mirror shine on tac boots.

It was impressive on a number of levels, not all of them positive.



NIN

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DocJekyll

Quote from: NIN on July 24, 2017, 06:04:03 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on July 24, 2017, 02:09:03 pm
Sage is never going to happen.


Care for a little side bet on that?


Oh man... I wanna take that bet.... but I also want sage boots, mainly so I can eliminate a pair of boots from what I have to maintain....

Also, just picked up these, so... lets not do it too soon.
Always give 100%, unless you're giving blood.


jeders

Quote from: NIN on July 24, 2017, 06:04:03 pm
Quote from: Eclipse on July 24, 2017, 02:09:03 pm
Sage is never going to happen.


Care for a little side bet on that?


From what I understand, it was just asked for and denied, so sure.
If you are confident in you abilities and experience, whether someone else is impressed is irrelevant. - Eclipse

Eclipse

Related - I have some very new cadet parents who finally got over to
a local retailer to buy ABUs.

The retailer told them "the sage boots look better, buy those..."

Thankfully they called me before buying them. 

I don't expect some random military surplus guy to know 39-1,
but he >did< know these were for a uniform and you don't buy uniform
parts based on "these look better".