Started by 180185, December 21, 2016, 04:39:06 am
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Quote from: Fubar on December 22, 2016, 06:25:27 amAll cadets interested in PJOC / APJOC should keep in mind that apparently the two activities have some sort of waiver from our cadet protection policy (such as using physical conditioning as punishment for discrepancies). If they are not up front about that with you (and your parents), they should be.
Quote from: A.Member on December 22, 2016, 03:28:56 pmWhat has been your involvement with PJOC? If you have no first hand knowledge, don't spread RUMINT.
Quote from: Fubar on December 22, 2016, 04:35:33 pmQuote from: A.Member on December 22, 2016, 03:28:56 pmWhat has been your involvement with PJOC? If you have no first hand knowledge, don't spread RUMINT.I've had multiple cadets from my wing attend over the past few years who all tell the same story. I then called one of the activity staff who told the same story as the cadets. I was told by the staff member that they had permission for everything they do at the activity.While I don't agree with rationale I was given to waive certain aspects of the CPP, NHQ signed off on it and that's way above my pay grade. I just think when you ignore portions of what we consider to be one of the most important regulations in CAP, both cadets and parents should be fully aware of what they're getting into.For the record, all of the cadets that I know who participated stated it was a demanding activity and one they were extraordinarily proud to have completed.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 22, 2016, 05:22:34 pmCPPT, including PT as punishment, isn't something CAP NHQ can "waive".
Quote from: Fubar on December 22, 2016, 06:58:16 pmQuote from: Eclipse on December 22, 2016, 05:22:34 pmCPPT, including PT as punishment, isn't something CAP NHQ can "waive".When I reported this to my chain of command, the answer I got back was the activity is run by Air Force personnel "who know what they're doing", so NHQ feels what takes place at the activity is acceptable.They be the boss, so it is what it is.Saying they have a waiver was a poor choice of words because it suggests a paper trail. It's an implicit waiver in that NHQ knows what they are doing and allows it.
Quote from: Eclipse on December 22, 2016, 07:30:09 pmUnless they are involved, your chain would have no more knowledge of the situation then you do, if they are, you'd have to take above or beyond them anyway.The route-1 on this would have and should be your Wing CC, or perhaps even the Nat IG since this is an NCSA we're talking about. If you believe it to be true to the extent you will state it publicly as fact, then you're duty-bound to purse it beyond a dismissive wave-off by people who have no idea what they are talking about.And if I was involved in PJOC, I'd want any sniff of something like this to be dispelled immediately lest it taint the activity's reputation.Regardless of who is on staff, it's a CAP activity, which means it is bound by CAP regs from end-to-end, just like any number of other activities which involve members of the military as instructors. The regs are unambiguously clear that PT as discipline, whether in a group or individually, is 100% verboten, and the expectation is that all CAP activities operate under that principle.Anything less insinuates there is "wiggle room" in the prohibition and calls everyone else's integrity into question as well.
Quote from: Panzerbjorn I've even seen PJs come back and demand a participant remove their patch if they did not graduate to standards. That patch isn't a participation trophy.
Quote from: THRAWN on December 22, 2016, 09:39:20 pmI know a guy who once saw a Cadet who went to PJOC....mother of pearl....can anybody personally involved in the management of this activity chime in? The tales are starting to sound Nazi submarine-like.
Quote from: Panzerbjorn on December 22, 2016, 08:53:39 pmMy son graduated from PJOC in New Mexico this summer at the age of 15. He came back even more motivated, an extremely high esprit de corps, really wanting to do APJOC, and found the niche he wants to be in if he goes into the Air Force.Whatever their methods, I hope they don't change a thing. The course is taught by highly professional Air Force special forces personnel and I've seen first hand examples of how much those PJs care about the program and the cadets. It's not for everyone and you shouldn't expect it to be on the same level as Encampment. I've even seen PJs come back and demand a participant remove their patch if they did not graduate to standards. That patch isn't a participation trophy.
Quote from: THRAWN on December 22, 2016, 09:44:25 pmI've known 2 cadets who went. One to NM, one to GWNF. Both came back highly motivated and set on a path to SOF. Both are serving, but not in SOF roles. Apparently, the real deal is a lot tougher than the courses they took. Best advice is to talk to an operator, see what he can do to prep and prep hard for indoc. Hope that motivation sticks with him! Good luck.
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