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SarDragon
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« Reply #60 on: September 29, 2016, 06:34:44 PM »

Hey, folks, don't forget to change the subject lines to reflect the specific area of discussion. Clicking Reply grabs the thread subject; clicking quote grabs the subject of the post you are quoting.

Thank you.
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Dave Bowles
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« Reply #61 on: September 30, 2016, 02:47:09 AM »

it might be financially prudent to pay for a unit member to get ARC training as an instructor and use their free text.

ARC instructors are no different then any others, they cannot provide or certify the training in the way CAP
requires without, at a minimum, paying for materials and registration for each member.  Doing anything else
violates the instructor agreement and the classes are not backed by ARC.

Using "free texts" is not an option for CAP members looking for training that meets the ES requirements.

Please provide evidence for your assertions.

Which part? Eclipse is 100% accurate on the ARC part - in order to submit a course report and certify people, the instructor has to name each individual passing and then has to supply a credit card number to pay the fee charged by ARC for each person. Source: I was an ARC instructor until I lapsed.

Thanks for your input but I think you omitted important information and ignore part of Eclipse's assertions.

First, how much is the fee that the ARC requires to issue the card? Recall that we are assuming that the instructor, a CAP member, is donating his time so there would be no instructor fee. Also there would be no venue fee, Given these conditions, what would the card cost?

 Or does the ARC expressly forbid an instructor from donating his efforts in a class that will lead to certification.

The ARC has posted their basic first aid handbook online for free download. Will the ARC  still require the purchase of the same handbook for completing the class?

BTW, how current is your information  since you admittedly are no longer an instructor?

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Spaceman3750
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« Reply #62 on: September 30, 2016, 03:05:02 AM »

it might be financially prudent to pay for a unit member to get ARC training as an instructor and use their free text.

ARC instructors are no different then any others, they cannot provide or certify the training in the way CAP
requires without, at a minimum, paying for materials and registration for each member.  Doing anything else
violates the instructor agreement and the classes are not backed by ARC.

Using "free texts" is not an option for CAP members looking for training that meets the ES requirements.

Please provide evidence for your assertions.

Which part? Eclipse is 100% accurate on the ARC part - in order to submit a course report and certify people, the instructor has to name each individual passing and then has to supply a credit card number to pay the fee charged by ARC for each person. Source: I was an ARC instructor until I lapsed.

Thanks for your input but I think you omitted important information and ignore part of Eclipse's assertions.

First, how much is the fee that the ARC requires to issue the card? Recall that we are assuming that the instructor, a CAP member, is donating his time so there would be no instructor fee. Also there would be no venue fee, Given these conditions, what would the card cost?

 Or does the ARC expressly forbid an instructor from donating his efforts in a class that will lead to certification.

The ARC has posted their basic first aid handbook online for free download. Will the ARC  still require the purchase of the same handbook for completing the class?

BTW, how current is your information  since you admittedly are no longer an instructor?

Recent enough. While I was told by another instructor that the curriculum was recently revised, under the big overhaul of the last revision students only needed a ready reference card, which could be printed. This was a big change when it came out circa-2011. I have strong reasons to believe this is still the case.

Prices vary based on AP agreement, and that's the kicker. ARC has made it extremely difficult for instructors to teach outside of the chapter. The terminology has changed a bit, but essentially you must be teaching either for the chapter at a chapter-scheduled class, or an authorized provider, under whatever rules the contract lays out.

That is why I didn't renew with ARC - the hurdles to teach to anyone but a $90 each ARC sponsored class are very high.

Eclipse's statements are generally true. There is no free training that produces a certificate from ARC. Any instructor who does is on their own - you literally can't submit the students for certificates without paying up. The instructor can donate all the time he wants, they're still getting their fee. In my experience, everyone doesn't have to buy the book individually, but chapters and APs may have their own policies so that may be his experience. I also don't believe that is what he was saying.
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RNOfficer
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« Reply #63 on: September 30, 2016, 03:39:09 AM »



Quote
Eclipse's statements are generally true. There is no free training that produces a certificate from ARC. Any instructor who does is on their own - you literally can't submit the students for certificates without paying up. The instructor can donate all the time he wants, they're still getting their fee. In my experience, everyone doesn't have to buy the book individually, but chapters and APs may have their own policies so that may be his experience. I also don't believe that is what he was saying.

No one on this thread has claimed that an ARC certification would be free. The question is if the CAP provided its own instructor and venue, how much would the ARC charge for issuing the card? Maybe no one knows. Maybe CAP would have to become an "authorized provider" for this to happen.

My point is that no one here knows the answers to these questions. It should be addressed at the NHQ level by the medical or health services.
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RNOfficer
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« Reply #64 on: September 30, 2016, 03:52:29 AM »

Updated information about mosquito repellent and Zika

http://www.consumerreports.org/insect-repellents/mosquito-repellents-that-best-protect-against-zika/

Pregnant Women with Lab Evidence of Zika Virus Infection*
US States and DC: 808
US Territories: 1,490

Zika Virus Disease Cases Reported to ArboNET*
US States and DC: 3,625
US Territories: 22,069


Aedes mosquitoes range

http://www.cdc.gov/zika/pdfs/zika-mosquito-maps.pdf

Note that the above maps do not show areas where Zika virus has been found. They show the potential range given the range of its vector.

Protection against Zika

http://www.cdc.gov/zika/prevention/protect-yourself-and-others.html

Because humans are the only known reservoir  for Zika and the symptoms are often very mild  coupled with the extensive range of the Aedes mosquitoe, the potential for Zika's spread is high.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2016, 04:28:54 AM »

My point is that no one here knows the answers to these questions. It should be addressed at the NHQ level by the medical or health services.

Several people here know the answer, you just don't want to hear it.

ASHI charges $10 per student for materials and registration when the instructor provides their services pro-bono.
The last time I checked the ARC was more (their classes are generally more expensive on the mean.  I won't quote a number
but you could get one with a phone call to ARC instead of waiting for NHQ to "discuss it").  You will also likely be told "we don't allow that".

The ARC and similar groups may be "non-profit" (from a legal perspective), but they are not, and never have been, "non-revenue",
they have a huge machine of employees and services to fuel, and as-such, they and other such groups strongly discourage
pro-bono instruction.

You may also recall that CAP recently signed an MOU with the ARC and the sum total of the "agreement" was essentially
each one recognized the other had a right to exist, and it "encouraged cooperation".  However I can tell you from direct
experience that while the ARC is very excited to mine our membership for volunteers, they are not particularity interested, especially at the local
level, in members providing assistance in uniform, and as soon as assistance or activities start costing them revenue, that
"cooperation" begins to fade.

Could CAP fund the training for a member(s) to become First Aid instructors who then provide that training to other members?
Sure can, BTDT, to the tune of about $1000 from my Group's funds (when you include the CPR dummies and other materials).
The member taught a couple of classes in his home squadron, quit less then a year later, and out the door went that money.
I seem to recall he took the dummies with him.

For any such plan to be effective would take 2-3 members (at least) per wing, probably more, since there would be no funding for travel. So you're looking at somewhere between $78k to $150K, with no guarantee those people stay members 1 day after the training ends.

That's why it's not a good idea, and NHQ isn't interested in "discussing it".
« Last Edit: September 30, 2016, 11:44:24 AM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2016, 09:28:11 AM »

I have stated on similar forums before the actual pricing from the American Heart Association.

The current pricing is $15 for the card and $15 for the book.

I am still a current AHA instructor, have my own business but do not teach under my own company since I have another full time job so I am too busy to push my company. I do teach Basic Life Support to health care providers and Heartsaver First Aid CPR AED to non-healthcare providers part-time for another company.

The basic pricing is this:

Class costs to the general public is about $75. Of this, $30 covers the card and book. $45 would cover other costs like gauze, lungs, valves for the masks, and profit for the instructor.

As part of my instructor agreement, I have to follow the AHA protocol. These state that every student has to have a book during and after class, a card, and we have to be supervised by a training center, AHA training faculty reserve the right to show unannounced at a training to make sure that the AHA policies are being held to.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 04:36:42 AM by SarDragon » Report to moderator   Logged
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sarmed1
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« Reply #67 on: October 01, 2016, 11:58:36 AM »

...snip...

For any such plan to be effective would take 2-3 members (at least) per wing, probably more, since there would be no funding for travel. So you're looking at somewhere between $78k to $150K, with no guarantee those people stay members 1 day after the training ends.

That's why it's not a good idea, and NHQ isn't interested in "discussing it".

I dont mean to sound like a doubting Thomas, but would you mind breaking that cost down, because it seems a little high; I am just curious where that cost comes from. (or do you mean for the whole organization?)

mk
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Mark Kleibscheidel
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« Reply #68 on: October 01, 2016, 12:57:47 PM »

...snip...

For any such plan to be effective would take 2-3 members (at least) per wing, probably more, since there would be no funding for travel. So you're looking at somewhere between $78k to $150K, with no guarantee those people stay members 1 day after the training ends.

That's why it's not a good idea, and NHQ isn't interested in "discussing it".

I dont mean to sound like a doubting Thomas, but would you mind breaking that cost down, because it seems a little high; I am just curious where that cost comes from. (or do you mean for the whole organization?)

mk

That's just based on my personal experience, and why the range is so wide - it cost my group ~$1000 for training and equipment for one instructor, which included
adult and infant dummies, etc.  The result was "one guy" in the NE corner of the state with no interest in venturing out beyond his local area (he was happy enough
to do it for people that came to him, but that's a typical CAP situation for just about anything, and winds up being harder then 1-person doing outcall).

My wing would need at least 3, probably better to have 5 instructors to cover the area, most wings would need that many.

So 52 wings x $1000 = $52k x 3 = ~156K

Some wings would do with less, some would need more, and costs might vary, but looking quickly online I see that the
basic cost is about the same, maybe a little higher depending on what you consider "equipment", and of course CAP
should be able to leverage it's .gov status for better pricing.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 01:49:38 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #69 on: October 01, 2016, 01:08:22 PM »

Eclipse was the one that came with those numbers, but I can imagine where the costs come from.

Mostly equipment.

The American Heart Association instructor manual and video cost is about $150.

Then the Instructor Agreement states that "there should be enough manikins for every student to practice. You need one manikin for every three students. You cannot have more than 9 students in each class."

Although there is a wide selection of manikins available, some are cheaper, others are pricier, that is a huge investment. What I bought for my company were Baby Annes (infant), Little Juniors (child), and Little Annes (adult).

Baby Anne price, $116
Little Junior price, $210
Little Anne price, $234
AED trainer price estimate, $100

So you need three stations per instructor to teach 9 students, each station with 1 AED trainer, 1 adult or child, and 1 infant at a cost of $1,272 per station or $3,816 

100x3=300
210x3=630
116x3=342

Let us not forget disposables and items to keep the training sanitary. Adding training masks and disposable valves, you need 10 masks adult and 10 masks infant with 10 disposable valves, you now have $72.50

Pocket mask adult, $30
Pocket mask infant, $30
Training valves 10 at $1.25, $12.50

Just to start training, I would need three stations at $1,980 ea, or $3,888 for the three stations. And the instructor manual, another $150. Most of these costs are one time. But I need 9 valves per station each time I hold a class.

This is a cost of $4,038 per instructor to start giving classes. I did not include airways for each, the airways would have to be changed to a new one per class, and they are sold in packages of about $50 for about 24. Although you may be able to get cheaper manikins like the Sani Man and Sani Baby at about $100 each. And I have not factored in there the cost of giving First Aid classes...

The prices quoted are from Channing Bete. Don't believe it? Find for yourself!

 ;)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2016, 07:07:32 PM by SarDragon » Report to moderator   Logged
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Eclipse
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« Reply #70 on: October 01, 2016, 01:59:01 PM »

Yowsa - that's $200k for one per wing. $600k for three.  There was also upftont cost for the certification itself,
which was about $4-500 at the time, no idea what that is today, certainly not less.

For whatever reason only one of each dummy was purchased, I think because CPR isn't required in CAP (nor AED).

For the record, I was not the person who thought this was a good idea, nor approved the expense at the time.


Also consider that the operational budget of many (most?) wings is under $25k per year, and you're looking
at $4-12k+ on first aid instructors?  Further to that, only probably less then 1/2 the membership is involved in ES to need it to start with.

CAP would be much better off just funding private training for those who need it (though that ain't cheap, either). My wing would probably
cost about $12k a year for that (at $50 per person).

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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2016, 03:21:10 PM »

Since I am working full time and have a part-time job, I can offer classes to CAP members at $30 per person. $15 for the book, and $15 for the certificate. I "eat" the $2 or $3 per student above that.

If I would not be working full time, I would have to charge $33 or $35 per person instead.

You are probably right in that the reason for 1 manikin is that there is a requirement for First Aid but not CPR. When I teach these classes to CAP personnel, I see CPR as an added bonus.

If it is expected the Wing to fund these classes, it may be best to fund individuals.

Is there a way to find out how many CAP members are currently certified as Ground Team 3? A total amount? I would like to estimate how much would it have cost all of them to take the First Aid class.
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« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2016, 03:38:37 PM »

Is there a way to find out how many CAP members are currently certified as Ground Team 3? A total amount? I would like to estimate how much would it have cost all of them to take the First Aid class.

You should be able to run reports within your wing, nationally would need someone at that level.
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sarmed1
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« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2016, 04:22:17 PM »

Not to endorse any organization more than another, this is why I shy away from the ARC for training.  Its money that needs to go into their pocket first, and training people is second, even for a partner/supporting organization like CAP.

I still think that the USAF SABC concept would be fine for CAP's first aid requirement.  Other than cost of supplies (which again the USAF may be able to supply the training kits at least 1 to a CAP wing) the training is free.  I suppose the only catch is you need to find a USAF level Wing SABC coordinator that would do the trainer course and monitor instructors at a class (USAF or CAP). 
"Someone" would have to migrate the USAF CBT to the CAP online training section of E-services.
"Someone"  would have to interact between CAP and USAF to make sure updated CBT or other SABC program changes are communicated/updated to CAP (National HSO level)

As far as the desire for CPR, the military also runs its own CPR training center Military Training Network which provide AHA affiliated courses and certification to all the services.  Free (again would have to fall under the "...commanders may provide support training..." line of the AFI.) Down side is that not everywhere in the civilian world will take an MTN card the same as an AHA card

MK
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Mark Kleibscheidel
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2016, 05:12:28 PM »

The information about the American Red Cross posted here so far seems to be putting the Red Cross in a bad light because they charge for their classes and these are not provided free of charge.

Before I certified as an AHA instructor I was an ARC instructor.

I think it would be highly relevant to illustrate the complete mission of the ARC, so to speak, paint the entire picture.

When there is a fire or other emergency, the ARC has crew to provide assistance. This crew has to be paid for the 24-hr coverage. This crew finds 1) shelter for those burned out of their homes and pays for it; 2) gives a little money to start them on the recovery. They have other programs like providing blood banks.

Some of this is paid by donations, some is provided by volunteers. But not enough to be able to do all. Sounds familiar? Wow! Just like CAP! We do not charge for our Search and Rescue since the Air Force sends us money and we have volunteers! The ARC needs another source to be able to provide all the services they do. These are 24 times 7. That is where their classes come into the program. These classes also need funding to develop and pay for them.

The ARC military program is another animal. The US Congress assigns funds to the Red Cross to work with the military. That is why... the ARC does not charge the military, since they have been paid to provide these services, so any other funds the ARC receives are not used for this program.

The American Heart Association works in a similar manner. They offer services like scanning for heart attack and stroke causes. They do not charge too much for this if at all, since the classes pay for part of that cost.


 :)
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #75 on: October 01, 2016, 07:56:31 PM »

Some people have expressed on this venue that the American Red Cross has posted their handbook online.

If you are talking about this one, http://www.redcross.org/images/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m55540601_FA-CPR-AED-Part-Manual.pdf, this handbook is old.

Every 5 years or so, there is a meeting of all agencies teaching CPR to come to an agreement on changes in the field of CPR and First Aid. After that, each of them make changes and publish their version of these agreements.

The handbook listed here reflects -- and it clearly states -- in page iii "This manual reflects the 2010 Consensus on Science for CPR and Emergency Cardiovascular Care (ECC) and the Guidelines 2010 for First Aid."

However there was a consensus in 2015. This became known as the "2015 International Consensus on First Aid Science With Treatment Recommendations." See http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/132/16_suppl_1.

This convention happened in October 2015.

If you want the latest handbooks, look for handbooks that state they conform to the 2015 Consensus on CPR Science.

I had to throw out several DVDs and manuals. I threw out and replaced my BLS instructor DVD, my Heartsaver First Aid CPR AED DVD, and will have to throw out my copy of the Heartsaver Pediatric First Aid CPR AED DVD. At the tune of about $150 each. As well as several copies of student handbooks. At the tune of $15 each.
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« Reply #76 on: October 08, 2016, 01:22:39 AM »

Ninety percent of Americans consume more sodium than recommended by the CDC and the American Heart Association.

Excess sodium can contribute  to high blood pressure, a cause of heart disease and stroke. One-third of American adults have high blood pressure. And 90 percent of American adults are expected to develop high blood pressure over their lifetimes.

For reasons not well understood,  not only is high blood pressure more prevalent in blacks than whites, but it also develops earlier in life.More than 40 percent of non-Hispanic black adults have high blood pressure.

Reducing sodium in your diet is the easiest way to reduce high blood pressure

http://www.heart.org/HEARTORG/HealthyLiving/HealthyEating/Nutrition/Sodium-and-Salt_UCM_303290_Article.jsp#.V_hHPsmeLtR

Manufactures of processed and prepared foods add sodium both because it is a preservative and because the public demands food with a salty taste

For example Campbell's Bean and Bacon soup has 36% of the RDA in a half-cup serving. Of course the typical "serving" is, at least, a full cup.

There is disagreement in research findings about the impact of very low sodium intake but because almost everyone consumes too much sodium, it wouldn't be discussed here.

How to reduce sodium in your diet,

https://sodiumbreakup.heart.org/how_to_reduce_sodium?utm_source=SRI&utm_medium=HeartOrg&utm_term=Website&utm_content=SodiumAndSalt&utm_campaign=SodiumBreakupis

As always, this post is only general medical information. See your PCP for health information specific to you.

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RNOfficer
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« Reply #77 on: October 08, 2016, 02:23:44 AM »

Something else that's new for 2016-2017 is that CDC only recommends people get injectable flu vaccines (flu shots) this season. Live attenuated influenza vaccine (LAIV) or the nasal spray vaccine is not recommended for use during the 2016-2017 season because of concerns about its effectiveness. There are still many different vaccine options this season. Some flu shots protect against three flu viruses and some protect against four flu viruses.

Also new: Higher dosage for older than 65

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_fluzone.htm

Egg Free Flu vaccine

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/qa_flublok-vaccine.htm

Flu Vaccine With Adjuvant

http://www.cdc.gov/flu/protect/vaccine/adjuvant.htm

Everyone 6 months and older should get a flu vaccine every year by the end of October, if possible. However, getting vaccinated later can still be protective since flu viruses can circulate into May during some seasons. For this reason, vaccination should continue throughout the flu season, even in January or later. Some young children might need two doses of vaccine. A health care provider can advise on how many doses a child should get.

There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine. A person who has previously experienced a severe allergic reaction to flu vaccine, regardless of the component suspected of being responsible for the reaction, should not get a flu vaccine again.

http://www.cdc.gov/features/flu/index.html

As always, this post is general health information. See your PCP for information specific to you.
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etodd
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« Reply #78 on: October 08, 2016, 03:18:09 AM »


There are some people who should not get a flu vaccine.

How do first timers react? I'm 60 years old and have never in my life had a flu shot, or experienced the flu. At this point I hate the idea of having it injected into me. Might mess up my seemingly natural immunity(?)
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« Reply #79 on: October 08, 2016, 04:18:50 AM »

This is something you should discuss with your PCP.

In general however, it should not make a difference if it's your first time. The injected vaccine is de-activated virus so it cannot cause you to get the flu.
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