Weight Standard ABU/BDU

[Eclipse]

I posted this discussion to get feedback on where it says the criteria within regulation.

"Not much" is still over.

Being a cadet "issued uniforms" doesn't matter if you are over 18.

Your answer is CAPM 39-1

[Майор Хаткевич]

Hold on hold on... First off im not fat, I just said im over the weight requirement, and not by much I may add.

The problem is "on paper" I don't meet weight requirements, but I still fit in the same blues and BDU's I've worn for years and look well in.

Not going to pass any judgments, but the AF scale was relatively generous, and tapping on 10% TO that, and being over that, whether it's 5lbs or 20lbs, typically will mean that yes, you are overweight by medical, military, and appearance standards. Fit doesn't matter. I was at 255lbs, and could squeeze into my BDU top from my cadet days. That was still 40lbs+ over the limit for my height. Now my BDU top is where it belongs - a display


The problem, at least "on paper" is that you seem to think the standard only applies to ABUs. Which leads to the point Eclipse was making about your local command priorities up until now:

So, I don't know whether to discuss this further with my commander or just stick with BDU's until 2021 and make the switch the Blue BDU uniform which... honestly I don't favor very much.

If you're over, then you go to Blue BDUs NOW, not 5 years from now and keep wearing the BDUs. Those are the regs.

[etodd]

Lots of good points here. Let's see if I can sum up so we have a reference post for when this issue comes up again in the next 6-12 months (as it does every 6-12 months).

1.  ....There ought to be no shame, no stigma, in anyone wearing corporate uniforms. If you think they're second-class uniforms for second-class citizens, then you are wrong.

^^^ Thanks for that.  Regs are what they are and should be followed. All of my posts have been about the 'attitudes' of some folks, that you mention in #1.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Lots of good points here. Let's see if I can sum up so we have a reference post for when this issue comes up again in the next 6-12 months (as it does every 6-12 months).

1.  ....There ought to be no shame, no stigma, in anyone wearing corporate uniforms. If you think they're second-class uniforms for second-class citizens, then you are wrong.

^^^ Thanks for that.  Regs are what they are and should be followed. All of my posts have been about the 'attitudes' of some folks, that you mention in #1.

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

[Spam]

Lots of good points here. Let's see if I can sum up so we have a reference post for when this issue comes up again in the next 6-12 months (as it does every 6-12 months).

1.  ....There ought to be no shame, no stigma, in anyone wearing corporate uniforms. If you think they're second-class uniforms for second-class citizens, then you are wrong.

^^^ Thanks for that.  Regs are what they are and should be followed. All of my posts have been about the 'attitudes' of some folks, that you mention in #1.

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Me. It happens.

Three times at recent (within 1 year) events such as Commanders Calls, SAREXs etc. I've had portly Field Grade officers in blues or BDUs tighter than a bratwurst casing front on me and challenge me up for not wearing USAF style.  More than a bit abrasively. Challengingly. No foul language, but a clear implication that as a Commander of a Cadet unit I was lacking.


The Alpha Male crap pisses me off, and I've given as good as I got from test pilots and patch wearers and operators in my career, so piddly little CAP small a Alphas don't bother me much. Usually...


In one case, where he had the temerity to do this in front of his own troops (his audience, to show off) I slowly and silently examined the impressive expanse of his girth, straining the tensile strength of the fabric, and stated "Well, I'm giving my buttons a rest until I lose some weight... how about you give yours a break too, (his name) before they burst and take someone's eyes out".  I've had similar from officers within weight, but to take that from one of the largest creatures which ever slowly urged its vast uniformed bulk over the face of the protesting Earth was too much hypocrisy to take.


V/R
Spam

[Toad1168]

Lots of good points here. Let's see if I can sum up so we have a reference post for when this issue comes up again in the next 6-12 months (as it does every 6-12 months).

1.  ....There ought to be no shame, no stigma, in anyone wearing corporate uniforms. If you think they're second-class uniforms for second-class citizens, then you are wrong.

^^^ Thanks for that.  Regs are what they are and should be followed. All of my posts have been about the 'attitudes' of some folks, that you mention in #1.

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Me. It happens.

Three times at recent (within 1 year) events such as Commanders Calls, SAREXs etc. I've had portly Field Grade officers in blues or BDUs tighter than a bratwurst casing front on me and challenge me up for not wearing USAF style.  More than a bit abrasively. Challengingly. No foul language, but a clear implication that as a Commander of a Cadet unit I was lacking.


The Alpha Male crap pisses me off, and I've given as good as I got from test pilots and patch wearers and operators in my career, so piddly little CAP small a Alphas don't bother me much. Usually...


In one case, where he had the temerity to do this in front of his own troops (his audience, to show off) I slowly and silently examined the impressive expanse of his girth, straining the tensile strength of the fabric, and stated "Well, I'm giving my buttons a rest until I lose some weight... how about you give yours a break too, (his name) before they burst and take someone's eyes out".  I've had similar from officers within weight, but to take that from one of the largest creatures which ever slowly urged its vast uniformed bulk over the face of the protesting Earth was too much hypocrisy to take.


V/R
Spam

Ridiculous to insinuate that just because you work with cadets that you should be in AF style.  It presents a horrible image to cadets to wear the AF style in flagrant disregard to the regs.  The most important thing with dealing with cadets is to wear the uniform, whichever it may be, properly and proudly.  Show that the uniform is something to be respected and the organization it stands for.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Lots of good points here. Let's see if I can sum up so we have a reference post for when this issue comes up again in the next 6-12 months (as it does every 6-12 months).

1.  ....There ought to be no shame, no stigma, in anyone wearing corporate uniforms. If you think they're second-class uniforms for second-class citizens, then you are wrong.

^^^ Thanks for that.  Regs are what they are and should be followed. All of my posts have been about the 'attitudes' of some folks, that you mention in #1.

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Me. It happens.

Three times at recent (within 1 year) events such as Commanders Calls, SAREXs etc. I've had portly Field Grade officers in blues or BDUs tighter than a bratwurst casing front on me and challenge me up for not wearing USAF style.  More than a bit abrasively. Challengingly. No foul language, but a clear implication that as a Commander of a Cadet unit I was lacking.


The Alpha Male crap pisses me off, and I've given as good as I got from test pilots and patch wearers and operators in my career, so piddly little CAP small a Alphas don't bother me much. Usually...


In one case, where he had the temerity to do this in front of his own troops (his audience, to show off) I slowly and silently examined the impressive expanse of his girth, straining the tensile strength of the fabric, and stated "Well, I'm giving my buttons a rest until I lose some weight... how about you give yours a break too, (his name) before they burst and take someone's eyes out".  I've had similar from officers within weight, but to take that from one of the largest creatures which ever slowly urged its vast uniformed bulk over the face of the protesting Earth was too much hypocrisy to take.


V/R
Spam

Yea, that sounds like some misguided individuals. I've never had anyone hassle me for wearing the corporate uniform. I have personally seen and encouraged those eligible to wear Blues, but never to the point of exclusion of corporate options.

[Damron]

Not going to pass any judgments, but the AF scale was relatively generous, and tapping on 10%

It's fair, but I wouldn't say it's generous for some body types.   At my physical peak, I was 5'8", 190 lbs, 32 inch waist, flat stomach, and could bench 300lbs.   This would have placed me above the AF limits but it would have been waived due to my freakish proportions.   

What does 5'7", 185-190lbs look like?  It can look like Aaron Smith:

http://www.gettyimages.com/galleries/personality/11191134

He could gain 25lbs or more and still look okay in a BDU.

[dwb]

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Public shaming like Nelson from The Simpsons? Not really. But as a (relatively) thin guy, I have gotten numerous comments over the years about being in the aviator shirt instead of blues. I use it as a teachable moment, that corporates are for all seniors, and to try to put the kibosh on the "us vs. them" attitudes.

[THRAWN]

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Public shaming like Nelson from The Simpsons? Not really. But as a (relatively) thin guy, I have gotten numerous comments over the years about being in the aviator shirt instead of blues. I use it as a teachable moment, that corporates are for all seniors, and to try to put the kibosh on the "us vs. them" attitudes.

I knew a few guys like this. One was a decorated AD officer who flat out REFUSED to wear the AF style. His logic was simple: this is an Air Force uni and this  (GW) is a CAP uni. Never saw him at a CAP event in a CAP role in anything other than the GW.

[Spam]

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Public shaming like Nelson from The Simpsons? Not really. But as a (relatively) thin guy, I have gotten numerous comments over the years about being in the aviator shirt instead of blues. I use it as a teachable moment, that corporates are for all seniors, and to try to put the kibosh on the "us vs. them" attitudes.

I knew a few guys like this. One was a decorated AD officer who flat out REFUSED to wear the AF style. His logic was simple: this is an Air Force uni and this  (GW) is a CAP uni. Never saw him at a CAP event in a CAP role in anything other than the GW.

I think I look good in gray, but then I was raised in Georgia.   

I know a guy who entered USAFA back in the mid 60s (from Alabama) whose grandma refused to come to his farewell party because she didn't want to see her grandbaby wearing that hated "Yankee blue uniform".

Cheers,
Spam

[LSThiker]

Do you have any proof of anyone "shaming" someone in corporates?

Public shaming like Nelson from The Simpsons? Not really. But as a (relatively) thin guy, I have gotten numerous comments over the years about being in the aviator shirt instead of blues. I use it as a teachable moment, that corporates are for all seniors, and to try to put the kibosh on the "us vs. them" attitudes.

I had that as well when I started wearing the corporate uniforms.  People would ask "why are you wearing the g/w and not the USAF-style uniform?"  I admit that I wear the blues for more "formal" events (national conferences) and the G/W (and polo) for more day-to-day type events (meetings, driving, talking with the public, etc).  I find the G/W more comfortable, easier and cheaper to maintain, and more corporate-appealing when talking with businesses.

[GaryVC]

I have just rejoined CAP after quite a few years. I don't think I had ever seen the corporate uniform until recently when there were a bunch of people who were attending RSC eating lunch at our local BX food court. I have to honestly say that I was upset seeing the facial hair and the several grossly overweight people wearing it. This didn't stop me from rejoining, however.

[Eclipse]

I don't think I had ever seen the corporate uniform until recently when there were a bunch of people who were attending RSC eating lunch at our local BX food court. I have to honestly say that I was upset seeing the facial hair and the several grossly overweight people wearing it.

You were upset these people were dressed properly?

Or upset these volunteers who were taking a week off their normal lives, on their own nickel and time, didn't fit your model?

[DakRadz]

Gary- I'm confused- why were you upset if they were wearing corporates?

1st Lt Raduenz

[JeffDG]

I have just rejoined CAP after quite a few years. I don't think I had ever seen the corporate uniform until recently when there were a bunch of people who were attending RSC eating lunch at our local BX food court. I have to honestly say that I was upset seeing the facial hair and the several grossly overweight people wearing it. This didn't stop me from rejoining, however.

Glad you're not in my wing.  That level of utter disrespect for people who are taking their own time and money to further their professional development which will only benefit CAP itself, would be met with an attitude of "Who the ____ do you think you are?"

[Lem]

To go along with the topic  I thought I would post this for you to look over  Not sure it will apply to CAP but it may at some point

http://www.militarytimes.com/story/military/careers/2016/08/07/military-fitness-standards-body-fat/87748588/

[GaryVC]

I don't think I had ever seen the corporate uniform until recently when there were a bunch of people who were attending RSC eating lunch at our local BX food court. I have to honestly say that I was upset seeing the facial hair and the several grossly overweight people wearing it.

You were upset these people were dressed properly?

Or upset these volunteers who were taking a week off their normal lives, on their own nickel and time, didn't fit your model?

Why was I upset? Because frankly I thought that with their rank insignia they looked too much like active military. There were military members from all branches of the service present as well as foreign military.

[LSThiker]

I don't think I had ever seen the corporate uniform until recently when there were a bunch of people who were attending RSC eating lunch at our local BX food court. I have to honestly say that I was upset seeing the facial hair and the several grossly overweight people wearing it.

You were upset these people were dressed properly?

Or upset these volunteers who were taking a week off their normal lives, on their own nickel and time, didn't fit your model?

Why was I upset? Because frankly I thought that with their rank insignia they looked too much like active military. There were military members from all branches of the service present as well as foreign military.

In no way, shape, or form are you going to present a satisfactory argument. Better to just cut your lose and not post to this thread.

[DakRadz]

The completely different uniform works for those foreign officers whose lieutenants have generals stars and walk around for US training.

Other than that, I only see this heading to a nasty lock.

1st Lt Raduenz