Weight Standard ABU/BDU

[Майор Хаткевич]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

Or not.

[stillamarine]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

Or not.

Agreed. Especially in blues....the vast majority don't wear it properly and it will just look like crap with blues.

[JeffDG]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

I can say that I asked some folks about that at the conference, and the exclusion of beret's with ABUs was not an inadvertent omission, but an intentional exclusion.

[dwb]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

I would oppose that for multiple reasons.

1. Beret grads already get credit for the NCSA ribbon, and an optional patch on the BDUs. Do we need a third way to single out this one NCSA?

2. Berets are an organizational identifier. You wear the beret while you're serving in the unit. So, you wear the blue beret while at NBB, then take it off when you leave.

3. Uniforms should be, you know, uniform. How about we have everyone wear the same thing on their melon? I'm opposed to saucer caps for the same reason.

4. I want fewer star-bellied sneetch arms races, not more.

[SMWOG]

Authorize the beret but if you choose to wear it,you must pull all.CQ shifts,check ID cards at local events,park cars,and sign vistors in at CAP events.  During down time,you must also stand  and post.

[Spam]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

It is indeed a great activity, by all accounts, and we shouldn't take away anything from the efforts or accomplishments of those members. However, the days when CAP members could wear DoD community specific clothing - even in sincere tribute and fanboy adulation - are rapidly disappearing. From blue berets which could easily be taken as an attempt to mimic USAF security police, to "Ranger" tabs which imitate real Rangers, these days are gone. With todays heightened base security measures, we should all understand that CAP members need to hang up the beret, which we need to respect as unique to the professional USAF base security. Playing beret will get us more restrictions from our USAF customer, not less.


This is especially when we see OGW and non-grooming reg adherent members with the berets, the "ranger" tabs, etc. in USAF style uniforms, where we certainly look like posers and stolen valor types.


(Reminder to self:  must tell my two new PJOC grads to shelve their maroon ball caps this week... that party's over as well).


V/R
Spam

[Spam]

Authorize the beret but if you choose to wear it,you must pull all.CQ shifts,check ID cards at local events,park cars,and sign vistors in at CAP events.  During down time,you must also stand  and post.

"Do the interns get Glocks?"
"They share one"

- The Life Aquatic with Steve Zissou

[Jester]

I was talking with one of our cadets that just returned from Oshkosh  and the Blue Beret's  and this cadet said that HQ was looking into letting the Blue Beret be allowed to be used with the ABU's and maybe even the Blues.   I know the cadets work very hard at EAA airventure and feel very honored to wear the beret.  So hopefully for them and the senior members that give the time to work with them something could be worked out in time

No. There's an legitimate blue beret that one can actually earn. If they want it that badly they can go visit their local Air Force recruiter and he'll hook them up.

Air show help, while admirable in its own right, doesn't rate it and I don't care how many decades it's been going on. Give them a dark blue ball cap with a newly-renamed activity patch on it.

http://www.usafpolice.org/memorial.html

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel (who have lost people in combat, training, and in garrison) absolutely baffles me. Red ball caps are an issue with ABUs now because we don't want to jack RED HORSE and CATM guys, but a beret that's covered in the same chapter of 36-2903 as a distinctive uniform item is a-ok?

[Eclipse]

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel (who have lost people in combat, training, and in garrison) absolutely baffles me.

OK, I don't like the beret anymore then the next guy, but that's not fair.

CAP did not "pirate" the beret any more then the countless other organizations that wear one, plus, that's imbuing the hat with far too much weight, which the military basically kibosh-ed when they opened the wear up to most of the cadre, including ROTC and JROTC.

The weight is in the man, not the hat.

[Jester]

Meh, disagree. It wouldn't have been done with scarlet, tan, maroon, rifle green, black, grey, or pewter green berets, so why is it ok with dark blue?  I wouldn't even have had an issue with it if it was a different shade of blue as long as it wasn't a SF or Safeside beret color.

Other entities do wear it as well, and they don't rate it either.

[PHall]

Meh, disagree. It wouldn't have been done with scarlet, tan, maroon, rifle green, black, grey, or pewter green berets, so why is it ok with dark blue?  I wouldn't even have had an issue with it if it was a different shade of blue as long as it wasn't a SF or Safeside beret color.

Other entities do wear it as well, and they don't rate it either.

Jester, the Air Force has had zero problems with Blue Beret "graduates" wearing their beret. The only restriction I have seen is that they don't wear it on an Air Force Installation so they won't be confused with Security Forces. And that may have been a local agreement.
If you really have a problem with CAP members wearing a beret then submit a change to CAPM 39-1 to change it so that they can't wear it.
But for now it's authorized for wear.

[Luis R. Ramos]

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel...

Are you for real?

Then anyone can say that the US Military has pirated wear of uniform items worn by other military.

The US Army did not have paratroopers until after the British Army and the German Army had them. So by what right did the US Army "stole" the red beret from the British? 

The German Heer Panzertruppen used black berets in the 1930's. So by what right the US Army "stole" the black berets from the Germans? 

European armies used trumpet calls before the United States Army even existed. So by what right the US Army "stole" the use of trumpet calls? In some, even the idea of ending the day with one used by others! Harumph! Makes me SO angry...

Disclaimer: This post is a silly reply to a silly post. I do not really believe the US Army "stole" anything... But the very idea that one of our special activities using a beret equated to an act of piracy...

[Jester]

Meh, disagree. It wouldn't have been done with scarlet, tan, maroon, rifle green, black, grey, or pewter green berets, so why is it ok with dark blue?  I wouldn't even have had an issue with it if it was a different shade of blue as long as it wasn't a SF or Safeside beret color.

Other entities do wear it as well, and they don't rate it either.

Jester, the Air Force has had zero problems with Blue Beret "graduates" wearing their beret. The only restriction I have seen is that they don't wear it on an Air Force Installation so they won't be confused with Security Forces. And that may have been a local agreement.
If you really have a problem with CAP members wearing a beret then submit a change to CAPM 39-1 to change it so that they can't wear it.
But for now it's authorized for wear.

I'm not surprised at all that the AF has little regard for security forces. That's par for the course. They don't care until somebody dies, then they get to show face at the memorial, before going back to complaining about how long it takes to get through the gate.

And I'm working on it.

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel...

Are you for real?

Then anyone can say that the US Military has pirated wear of uniform items worn by other military.

The US Army did not have paratroopers until after the British Army and the German Army had them. So by what right did the US Army "stole" the red beret from the British? 

The German Heer Panzertruppen used black berets in the 1930's. So by what right the US Army "stole" the black berets from the Germans? 

European armies used trumpet calls before the United States Army even existed. So by what right the US Army "stole" the use of trumpet calls? In some, even the idea of ending the day with one used by others! Harumph! Makes me SO angry...

Disclaimer: This post is a silly reply to a silly post. I do not really believe the US Army "stole" anything... But the very idea that one of our special activities using a beret equated to an act of piracy...

Sure thing. If the word "pirate" gets your knickers in a twist, change it to "misappropriate" or whatever. 

And I don't see the correlation between military branches carrying on the tradition behind a type of headgear used to denote combat training and capabilities earned, and non-military personnel thinking it's ok to use denoting participation in a summer activity.

I wonder if British Paras look at Army Airborne units or PJs and think they don't share at least some of the traditions and history. I know that any time I see a CAP blue beret I see an insult to the name on my right wrist and all the others in the link of my previous post.

[abdsp51]

I wonder if British Paras look at Army Airborne units or PJs and think they don't share at least some of the traditions and history. I know that any time I see a CAP blue beret I see an insult to the name on my right wrist and all the others in the link of my previous post.

Brother take a step back and chill out.  You are making this way to personal than what it needs to be.  I knew one of the people on that site and I have heard rumors about the circumstances surrounding a couple others. 

Either way,  it's a hat yes it's a hat that has significant meaning to many people myself included but at the end of the day it's a hat.  It's currently allowed though not in ABU's and we are all forgetting it is also at the CC's discretion to allow wear of it. 

There was a significant portion of the Army who were up in arms when they were told they had to start wearing black berets, and the Rangers (though possibly under duress as they had a gag order placed against them) adopted another color and they pressed on. 

As PHall said if you don't like it then draft a sound proposal and upchannel. 

[raivo]

Brother take a step back and chill out.  You are making this way to personal than what it needs to be.

+1

[Alaric]

Meh, disagree. It wouldn't have been done with scarlet, tan, maroon, rifle green, black, grey, or pewter green berets, so why is it ok with dark blue?  I wouldn't even have had an issue with it if it was a different shade of blue as long as it wasn't a SF or Safeside beret color.

Other entities do wear it as well, and they don't rate it either.

Jester, the Air Force has had zero problems with Blue Beret "graduates" wearing their beret. The only restriction I have seen is that they don't wear it on an Air Force Installation so they won't be confused with Security Forces. And that may have been a local agreement.
If you really have a problem with CAP members wearing a beret then submit a change to CAPM 39-1 to change it so that they can't wear it.
But for now it's authorized for wear.

I'm not surprised at all that the AF has little regard for security forces. That's par for the course. They don't care until somebody dies, then they get to show face at the memorial, before going back to complaining about how long it takes to get through the gate.

And I'm working on it.

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel...

Are you for real?

Then anyone can say that the US Military has pirated wear of uniform items worn by other military.

The US Army did not have paratroopers until after the British Army and the German Army had them. So by what right did the US Army "stole" the red beret from the British? 

The German Heer Panzertruppen used black berets in the 1930's. So by what right the US Army "stole" the black berets from the Germans? 

European armies used trumpet calls before the United States Army even existed. So by what right the US Army "stole" the use of trumpet calls? In some, even the idea of ending the day with one used by others! Harumph! Makes me SO angry...

Disclaimer: This post is a silly reply to a silly post. I do not really believe the US Army "stole" anything... But the very idea that one of our special activities using a beret equated to an act of piracy...

Sure thing. If the word "pirate" gets your knickers in a twist, change it to "misappropriate" or whatever. 

And I don't see the correlation between military branches carrying on the tradition behind a type of headgear used to denote combat training and capabilities earned, and non-military personnel thinking it's ok to use denoting participation in a summer activity.

I wonder if British Paras look at Army Airborne units or PJs and think they don't share at least some of the traditions and history. I know that any time I see a CAP blue beret I see an insult to the name on my right wrist and all the others in the link of my previous post.

When I was a scout, we wore red berets to represent the leadership corps. I don't think we were insulting the military by wearing it

[stillamarine]

Meh, disagree. It wouldn't have been done with scarlet, tan, maroon, rifle green, black, grey, or pewter green berets, so why is it ok with dark blue?  I wouldn't even have had an issue with it if it was a different shade of blue as long as it wasn't a SF or Safeside beret color.

Other entities do wear it as well, and they don't rate it either.

Jester, the Air Force has had zero problems with Blue Beret "graduates" wearing their beret. The only restriction I have seen is that they don't wear it on an Air Force Installation so they won't be confused with Security Forces. And that may have been a local agreement.
If you really have a problem with CAP members wearing a beret then submit a change to CAPM 39-1 to change it so that they can't wear it.
But for now it's authorized for wear.

I'm not surprised at all that the AF has little regard for security forces. That's par for the course. They don't care until somebody dies, then they get to show face at the memorial, before going back to complaining about how long it takes to get through the gate.

And I'm working on it.

The fact that it's just hunky dory to pirate the headgear of an active contingent of military personnel...

Are you for real?

Then anyone can say that the US Military has pirated wear of uniform items worn by other military.

The US Army did not have paratroopers until after the British Army and the German Army had them. So by what right did the US Army "stole" the red beret from the British? 

The German Heer Panzertruppen used black berets in the 1930's. So by what right the US Army "stole" the black berets from the Germans? 

European armies used trumpet calls before the United States Army even existed. So by what right the US Army "stole" the use of trumpet calls? In some, even the idea of ending the day with one used by others! Harumph! Makes me SO angry...

Disclaimer: This post is a silly reply to a silly post. I do not really believe the US Army "stole" anything... But the very idea that one of our special activities using a beret equated to an act of piracy...

Sure thing. If the word "pirate" gets your knickers in a twist, change it to "misappropriate" or whatever. 

And I don't see the correlation between military branches carrying on the tradition behind a type of headgear used to denote combat training and capabilities earned, and non-military personnel thinking it's ok to use denoting participation in a summer activity.

I wonder if British Paras look at Army Airborne units or PJs and think they don't share at least some of the traditions and history. I know that any time I see a CAP blue beret I see an insult to the name on my right wrist and all the others in the link of my previous post.

JROTC wears, black, red, white and tan berets. Doesn't seem to bother anyone else.

[indiaXray]

My own experience with berets is two fold.

Prior to being an air cadet, I was an army cadet in the UK briefly. British troops are serious about head gear and what it represents with history and meaning going back a couple of centuries (in some cases).  Some look cool, other's silly, but they'll fight you for it.  In the cadet forces, Every cadet unit is affiliated with a regiment of the regular or reserve forces.  Only when cadets have satisfied training requirements do they get to wear the beret of their service. It was not meant as a poke in the eye, but rather a privlegde that could be removed if abused.  Indeed, in the interim, I was issued with a US BDU pattern cap to cover my noggin that clashed horribly with my DPM combat uniform!

Many moons ago, my unit was affiliated with the British Paras and they wore the winged parachute emblem without the famous red beret (because cadete hadn't/couldn't been thrown from an airplane).  Her Majesty the Queen, as Patron of the unit, directed that the unit should still have some connection to the air and ordered the wear of the sky blue beret of the Army Air Corps, which is still worn to this day.  Shortly before I joined, the unit was attached to the cavalry and had a different badge but the color remained as part of the history of the unit.  It's one of my most cherished possesions.  Then after transferring to the air cadets and being dyed blue,  I got a RAF beret with a cap badge identical to what the grown-ups wore.  It is also cherished, even more so, but it was again not meant as a poke in the eye, but rather a privlegde that could be revoked if abused.

[Nick]

Air show help, while admirable in its own right, doesn't rate it and I don't care how many decades it's been going on. Give them a dark blue ball cap with a newly-renamed activity patch on it.

Not sure how well this newly-renamed activity would go over...

[PHall]

Air show help, while admirable in its own right, doesn't rate it and I don't care how many decades it's been going on. Give them a dark blue ball cap with a newly-renamed activity patch on it.

Not sure how well this newly-renamed activity would go over...

No, no, no Nick.    National Blaze Orange Boonie!