Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 14, 2018, 04:09:39 PM
Home Help Login Register
News:

CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Sunglasses as contraband
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All Print
Author Topic: Sunglasses as contraband  (Read 12625 times)
NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,024
Unit: of issue

« Reply #60 on: May 17, 2016, 09:08:58 PM »

Its funny, I just surfed around to a dozen or so encampment websites and looked at their packing lists.

Only 3 had sunglasses on the prohibited list (I liked the one where sunglasses were prohibited for students, but A-OK for cadre).  3-4 had sunglasses right there on the sheet as optional items. And the rest didn't say one way or another.

I realize that's not statistical in any way.

(Side note: it was funny to read different wing's requirements for things: shorts, hygiene items, camelbacks, etc.  I'm *still* amazed at the wings that refuse to allow students to wear watches. Apparently cadet staff make better time management devices...)

Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
PA Guy
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 730

« Reply #61 on: May 17, 2016, 09:42:19 PM »

Its funny, I just surfed around to a dozen or so encampment websites and looked at their packing lists.

Only 3 had sunglasses on the prohibited list (I liked the one where sunglasses were prohibited for students, but A-OK for cadre).  3-4 had sunglasses right there on the sheet as optional items. And the rest didn't say one way or another.

I realize that's not statistical in any way.

(Side note: it was funny to read different wing's requirements for things: shorts, hygiene items, camelbacks, etc.  I'm *still* amazed at the wings that refuse to allow students to wear watches. Apparently cadet staff make better time management devices...)

No, it is probably their "I'm more cool than you" shades.
Logged
Fubar
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 739

« Reply #62 on: May 18, 2016, 01:19:38 AM »

I'm *still* amazed at the wings that refuse to allow students to wear watches. Apparently cadet staff make better time management devices...)

New guide says you can't ban watches anymore.
Logged
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,598
Unit: Classified

« Reply #63 on: May 18, 2016, 02:04:27 AM »

I'm *still* amazed at the wings that refuse to allow students to wear watches. Apparently cadet staff make better time management devices...)

New guide says you can't ban watches anymore.

Haven't been able to since 2014 when the new guide as started to be put in use.  It caused some grief among the cadet staff initially, but it worked it out in the end. 
Logged
NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,024
Unit: of issue

« Reply #64 on: May 18, 2016, 06:41:58 AM »

Haven't been able to since 2014 when the new guide as started to be put in use.  It caused some grief among the cadet staff initially, but it worked it out in the end.

That was kinda-sorta my point.

Time management skills are an important part of encampment. Hard to learn/exercise those skills when you don't have a watch. The flight sergeant telling 15 cadets what time it is doesn't help when you tell the cadets "ok, 30 minutes to clean up your barracks and make your bunks."  They need to learn how to apportion their time like young adults, and using a watch is part of that.
Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Ned
Resident Philosopher

Posts: 2,204

« Reply #65 on: May 18, 2016, 12:06:46 PM »

Hmmm.  Sounds like the guide also needs to say you can't ban sunglasses, except in formation or at other times specified by the commander.

(Makes note, puts in file for next revision. . . )
Logged
MSG Mac
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,939
Unit: MER-MD-071

« Reply #66 on: May 18, 2016, 12:26:52 PM »

Hmmm.  Sounds like the guide also needs to say you can't ban sunglasses, except in formation or at other times specified by the commander.

(Makes note, puts in file for next revision. . . )

Best to also define sunglasses vs transitional prescription glasses
Logged
Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
MSG USA (Retired)
Cadetter
Seasoned Member

Posts: 224

« Reply #67 on: May 18, 2016, 12:29:42 PM »

... but if it's at other times specified by the commander, the commander can just ban them at all times, right? ;D
Logged
Wright Brothers Award, 2013
Billy Mitchell Award, 2016
Earhart Award, 2018

Planned: Eaker Award, late 2018 or early 2019; Spaatz Award, summer 2019
Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258
Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #68 on: May 19, 2016, 12:47:05 PM »

Ok, since we're not allowing cadets to ask for reasons for our decisions, and since I'm an encampment commander, I'll ask.

Why don't we allow sunglasses at encampment?

Pens and books and other cadets can be distractions at encampment, so the potential risk of distraction is apparently not a reason for disallowing things.

I'm ok if you label me the "Why Encampment Commander".
Logged
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,339

« Reply #69 on: May 19, 2016, 12:53:10 PM »

They aren't as the required cap provides enough protection.

Beyond that, as the CC, you can allow them.
Logged


Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258
Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #70 on: May 19, 2016, 01:04:58 PM »

They aren't as the required cap provides enough protection.

Beyond that, as the CC, you can allow them.

You are suggesting that they be contraband because they are not required to protect cadets' faces from sunlight, is that correct?
Logged
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258
Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #71 on: May 19, 2016, 01:51:40 PM »

Cadet Cadetter,

When you become an encampment commander - or at least a CAP senior member - I hope you encourage your cadets to ask "why". We are in a leadership training program and it's important for leaders to learn how and when to question the organization. Just understand that sometimes it's not appropriate to ask why until after the crisis has passed.

Your encampment commander may or may not have a reason you consider valid - it's within his or her discretion to list sunglasses as contraband. The CAPP 52-24 explains the "why" for most classes of contraband.

If you ask "why" you'll likely receive some gruff responses, not just from CAP but from any organization that has been around for a while. Asking why can challenge long-held assumptions and deeply seated beliefs. Use caution, and always be respectful. But think for yourself and decide what you'll do when you have the authority and responsibility. Keep a flexible mind though, because you may decide that you don't like the decision 20-years-ago predicted you would make.

As encampment commander, I do not list sunglasses as contraband. However, I know that if our cadets wear mirrored sunglasses or push their sunglasses up on their heads, either I or my cadre will have to correct them. I also know I may have to answer an angry parent email if Cadet Jimmy loses his $300 Oakleys (yes, they often blame us), and if a picture of a cadet in mirrored glasses leaks out to the social media one of the first questions people ask will be "who's in charge there, and why are they allowing them to violate CAPM 39-1!"

Therefore, I don't blame other encampment commanders for listing sunglasses as contraband.

I hope this helps. By the way, I hope you are familiar with CAPP 52-24, but here is paragraph 2.7, Contraband Shakedown (emphasis mine):

Quote
One of the first tasks needing to be accomplished shortly after the cadets’ arrival is the contraband shakedown. The purpose of a luggage inspection or shakedown is for the senior staff, as responsible adult chaperones, to verify that each cadet possesses all required gear. Additionally, the senior staff verifies that no cadet has access to material that is undesirable for the learning environment, morally inappropriate for a youth activity, or a safety hazard. The senior staff conducts the contraband shakedown in the presence of each individual cadet, one-on-one. (Cadet cadre will be subject to contraband shakedowns, just as the students.)

Logged
Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,901

« Reply #72 on: May 19, 2016, 01:58:53 PM »

Easy fix: hit up the local Dollar Tree Deals, get a couple hundred pair of the same plain black sunglasses. That way, everybody has the same ones, nobody is losing the mythical $300 Oakleys, and little Johnny's peepers are protected...
Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,339

« Reply #73 on: May 19, 2016, 02:02:04 PM »

And that $200 comes from where, exactly?
Logged


NIN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 5,024
Unit: of issue

« Reply #74 on: May 19, 2016, 02:05:57 PM »

And that $200 comes from where, exactly?

Plenty of sources.
Logged
Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
Sq Bubba, Wing Dude, National Guy
I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,901

« Reply #75 on: May 19, 2016, 02:10:55 PM »

And that $200 comes from where, exactly?

Like NIN said, plenty of places. If you can't find a buck out of each participants tuition, you might want to really reevaluate your spending. Before you go off on the list of things that go into an encampment, I've been there. I've also found ways to cut spending, reallocate resources and shop vendors to negotiate pricing. There are ways to do it, just exercise some creative thinking.
Logged
Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
Eclipse
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 29,339

« Reply #76 on: May 19, 2016, 02:37:55 PM »

Honestly, I could not care less about sunglasses either way - they aren't on the equipment or contraband list
of the encampment I have been affiliated with, and we do have cadets wearing them on occasion.

It's a flavor call by the encampment CC, nothing more or less - health concerns, absent a verifiable medical
condition, aren't relevent to the discussion.
Logged


Toad1168
Forum Regular

Posts: 159
Unit: Missouri

« Reply #77 on: May 19, 2016, 02:58:07 PM »

Honestly, I could not care less about sunglasses either way - they aren't on the equipment or contraband list
of the encampment I have been affiliated with, and we do have cadets wearing them on occasion.

It's a flavor call by the encampment CC, nothing more or less - health concerns, absent a verifiable medical
condition, aren't relevent to the discussion.

What he said :clap:
Logged
Toad
Toth
Member

Posts: 60

« Reply #78 on: May 19, 2016, 04:41:51 PM »

Haven't checked into CAPTalk for a couple days now, and I glance at the recent topics and what do I find? Four pages. About sunglasses. Seems legit.
Logged
C/Capt Toth Mendius, CAP
C/CC RMR-MT-053 (ret.), RMR Ass't Rep NCAC (ret.)
Mitchell #65174, Earhart #17361
GES, ♦ICUT, ♦FLM, GTM3, UDF, SET, MS, MRO, EMT, *GTM2
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,727

« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2016, 05:09:53 PM »

Need a different topic to derail this one...

Anyone, suggest something...

 :-X
Logged
Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] 5  All Print 
CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Encampments & NCSAs  |  Topic: Sunglasses as contraband
 


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP SMF 2.0.14 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.061 seconds with 25 queries.