Senior Members - College experience?

[mikeylikey]

^ You can find reference to Military Officers needing a degree to be eligible for Regular Army and Navy Service all the way back to before the Civil War.  It was only State militias that were allowed to "Commission" a person a State Officer without a degree.  Then late 1800's a pre-cursor to the modern ROTC program was established at land-grant institutions were a person could go to school and become a Military or Militia Officer.  Then the modern ROTC program was introduced early 1900's and laws were implemented that mandated all Officers; Federal (regular), Reserve and State (militia) must have a degree.  

Initially the system was set up so that when we run "low" on Commissioned Officers you will find secondary procurement channels open that allow those with a lesser than 4 year degree eligible for appointment, and highly desirable enlisted members procured directly to the Officer side through OCS/OTS/Direct/ and battlefield Commissions.  However that secondary system was relaxed and many Officers come in that route, but all agree that in order to stay an Officer, they will complete College and or University programs within a certain time-frame to get that 4 year degree.  

Remember 150 years ago the active or Regular components of the Federal Military were tiny.  All Officers were graduates of military colleges and or academies.  Those State militias at that time regularly "elected" the Officers of the Regiments.  

How things have greatly changed.  

I am a firm believer that attending a College or University is not so much to prove mental or academic excellence or achievement.  Attendance and receipt of a degree shows that the person was committed to a certain goal, and has the ability to access knowledge and information systems.  That is what is most important of College Graduates, the ability for them to be able to get information from varying resources, make processing decisions and relate the results to others around them.  

Now like stated before, many smart people and successful people never attended higher education institutions.  They are the minority, because if you placed them next to others that never attended college you will find that group predominantly makes less income than the group who can produce a college degree.  

I also believe that it has no bearing on CAP.  We need everyone!  I do think instead of mandating college degrees we mandate some more intense Pro DEV!

[Short Field]

On a serious note, and addressing more threads than this one...

I just finished writing a obit on a squadron member.  A lot of people here wouldn't have liked him in their squadron.  He didn't look that good in a "fat and fuzzy" uniform, had been very inactive over the past several years, and only had a high school diploma.  Just one of those guys who show up at the meeting every now and then.  

On the CAP side, he had the Paul E. Garber Award and  the 30 year numeric on his RSR.  From previous RM service, he had Pilot Wings, Jump Wings, the CIB, Purple Heart, Bronze Star, and Silver Star.  

Any one that would think him a disgrace to CAP needs to have a big reality check.

Rant over.

[mikeylikey]

^ I am sorry you had to write that.  It is very difficult to do.  The man sounds like he was there and back.  I am sure he was less active these past few years because of age or similar.

[MikeD]

Tossing my 2 cents in as a future senior member (I was told I had to attend 3 meetings before I could apply, 2 left):
BS, some work toward a masters, and a year and a half of work on instrumentation and flight test for research aircraft.  Hopefully that last part will be of interest to someone in CAP?

[brasda91]

Tossing my 2 cents in as a future senior member (I was told I had to attend 3 meetings before I could apply, 2 left):
BS, some work toward a masters, and a year and a half of work on instrumentation and flight test for research aircraft.  Hopefully that last part will be of interest to someone in CAP?

I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding attending 3 meetings.  Are you saying you disagree with this?  The regulations actually recommend prospective members attend 3 meetings prior to joining.  It has nothing to do with your education, but to help you in deciding if CAP is actually the organization you want to become involved with.

[SDF_Specialist]

Currently attending college, pursuing a BS in Criminal Justice.

[Short Field]

It has nothing to do with your education, but to help you in deciding if CAP is actually the organization you want to become involved with.

Exactlly!  We recently started doing this as well.  It is all fine and good to get the money (national & squadron dues) at the first meeting.  But it is really not fair to the new member when they realize that CAP is just not what they thought it was and stop attending meetings and then don't renew.

Don't view it as the squadron not wanting you, but more as making sure you really want the squadron.

[Smitty]

I am largely finished with a BA in Political Science, the only thing I have to do is an internship and make it to graduation on time.  I am also in the process of applying to law school.  I think that CAP would need to focus on improving training and not trying to set barriers to keep people from serving at a certain level.

A college education won't exactly guarantee that somebody isn't a knucklehead, moron, or jackass.  I have to be honest and say that the biggest idiots I have ever met were people I have met in college.  Same can be said for people without common sense.  I can understand the desire to have people that are educated and relatively successful in CAP to serve as role models for cadets.  However a person does not need to have a college degree in order to be either.  I also think that the idea of limiting people without a degree to being CAP airmen or NCOs would reak of class bias, something which really isn't needed in any volunteer organization.

[ricecakecm]

Grrr....  In order for me to finish my bachelors degree, I have to take a pre-pre algebra class then pre-algebra then college algebra.  This, with like 3 other classes and I'll be done.  If I could find an accredited university that would look the other way or simply realize that I DO NOT NEED ALGEBRA, I'd be willing to pay $10,000 cash.

I've been in the security, protection and law enforcement career field for a long time now, in addition to my military experience.  16 years since I graduated high school and I have yet to find a need for algebra.  Why is it that a college deems it necessary for me to know something I will never use....grrrrrr....

I meet people every day who shock me with the fact that they have a bachelors degree.  Somehow they have the piece of paper and I don't.  I have seen resumes from people with masters degrees and they can't even spell or construct a sentence.  Really pi$$es me off.

[/rant]

PS:  Went to enroll in classes for next semester and was informed of my inability to do algebra, thus the [rant].

Hey dude, I had to take College Algebra and Calculus to get an Aviation Degree.  I don't use either in my job flying airplanes.  I did use Algebra in some of my other classes when I was doing my undergrad work (Hydraulics, Aerodynamics, etc), but since I've left college, I haven't used Algebra very much and haven't used Calculus at all.  I also had to take stupid courses like Technical Report Writing and a Library Science Course. 

I thought it was stupid to have to take those classes, knowing that I wouldn't be doing advanced math in my job, writing technical reports, or using a library very often, but it was all a means to an end.

[BillB]

Thomas Edison State College in New Jersey (Regionally accrediated) will issue a bachelors with an algebra or computer language course in it's place.

[Short Field]

[Hey dude, I had to take College Algebra and Calculus to get an Aviation Degree.  I don't use either in my job flying airplanes. 

Undergraduate prerequisites for my masters degree include an advanced computer language and calculus.  We never really needed to use calculus in the program.  However, I found out that requiring calculus is just a way to ensure that the students have a "mature understanding of mathematics" - that is they understand and can solve basic formulas in algebra, trig, and geometry.

[MikeD]

Tossing my 2 cents in as a future senior member (I was told I had to attend 3 meetings before I could apply, 2 left):
BS, some work toward a masters, and a year and a half of work on instrumentation and flight test for research aircraft.  Hopefully that last part will be of interest to someone in CAP?

I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding attending 3 meetings.  Are you saying you disagree with this?  The regulations actually recommend prospective members attend 3 meetings prior to joining.  It has nothing to do with your education, but to help you in deciding if CAP is actually the organization you want to become involved with.

Actually, I don't have a problem with it, it seems like a good idea to me.  It just came out weird, I'm going to plead cold medication to that...

[brasda91]

Tossing my 2 cents in as a future senior member (I was told I had to attend 3 meetings before I could apply, 2 left):
BS, some work toward a masters, and a year and a half of work on instrumentation and flight test for research aircraft.  Hopefully that last part will be of interest to someone in CAP?

I'm not sure I understand your comment regarding attending 3 meetings.  Are you saying you disagree with this?  The regulations actually recommend prospective members attend 3 meetings prior to joining.  It has nothing to do with your education, but to help you in deciding if CAP is actually the organization you want to become involved with.

Actually, I don't have a problem with it, it seems like a good idea to me.  It just came out weird, I'm going to plead cold medication to that...

No problem, could use some cold medication myself.

[Cecil DP]

Tossing my 2 cents in as a future senior member (I was told I had to attend 3 meetings before I could apply, 2 left):
BS, some work toward a masters, and a year and a half of work on instrumentation and flight test for research aircraft.  Hopefully that last part will be of interest to someone in CAP?

The reason we ask people to attend 3 meetings is so that you know what you're getting into, and the Squadron knows who they're getting. Paying membership fees and buying a unform and then deciding this is not the organization for you is not good for anyone.   

[Dragoon]

The reason we ask people to attend 3 meetings is so that you know what you're getting into, and the Squadron knows who they're getting. Paying membership fees and buying a unform and then deciding this is not the organization for you is not good for anyone.   

Smart policy. We do the same thing.

Some folks change their minds after 3 meetings and don't come back - we saved them some dough.

Twice we've said no after talking with the candidate for a few weeks - we saved us some headaches.

[Stonewall]

So, I'm still trucking along with my 16 week required math class, finished 1 short 6-week biology class and halfway through another one (part 2).

Come May, I'll have only 3 classes left for my BS in Criminal Justice with a minor in Psychology.  Looks like it'll be 2008 for graduation, only 10 years after I started    Soon, I'll be able to change my "vote" in the poll.  :clap:

[Gunner C]

So, I'm still trucking along with my 16 week required math class, finished 1 short 6-week biology class and halfway through another one (part 2).

Come May, I'll have only 3 classes left for my BS in Criminal Justice with a minor in Psychology.  Looks like it'll be 2008 for graduation, only 10 years after I started    Soon, I'll be able to change my "vote" in the poll.  :clap:

Excellent!  Good to have it behind you instead of in front.

GC

[FM]

BS. Engineering - UVM
Master in Science in Administration - CMU
Ph.D. Candidate, Information Science - NSU

Regards,

[afgeo4]

Grrr....  In order for me to finish my bachelors degree, I have to take a pre-pre algebra class then pre-algebra then college algebra.  This, with like 3 other classes and I'll be done.  If I could find an accredited university that would look the other way or simply realize that I DO NOT NEED ALGEBRA, I'd be willing to pay $10,000 cash.

I've been in the security, protection and law enforcement career field for a long time now, in addition to my military experience.  16 years since I graduated high school and I have yet to find a need for algebra.  Why is it that a college deems it necessary for me to know something I will never use....grrrrrr....

I meet people every day who shock me with the fact that they have a bachelors degree.  Somehow they have the piece of paper and I don't.  I have seen resumes from people with masters degrees and they can't even spell or construct a sentence.  Really pi$$es me off.

[/rant]

PS:  Went to enroll in classes for next semester and was informed of my inability to do algebra, thus the [rant].

Hey dude, I had to take College Algebra and Calculus to get an Aviation Degree.  I don't use either in my job flying airplanes.  I did use Algebra in some of my other classes when I was doing my undergrad work (Hydraulics, Aerodynamics, etc), but since I've left college, I haven't used Algebra very much and haven't used Calculus at all.  I also had to take stupid courses like Technical Report Writing and a Library Science Course. 

I thought it was stupid to have to take those classes, knowing that I wouldn't be doing advanced math in my job, writing technical reports, or using a library very often, but it was all a means to an end.

I always thought algebra helped pilots in emergency fuel calculations and the like, but hey, I'm not a pilot, so what do I know?

[SAR-EMT1]

In my case the argument that having a college degree helps is a null one.
As an EMT I could have a Masters degree and I'd still get paid the same.
The only way I could get paid more is to become a Paramedic (which doesnt even give me an associates these days)
As a paramedic I wouldnt get paid extra for having a degree.
In this business its not what you know its what your certified for

Around here EMT-Bs make minimum wage (local services offer no overtime and give EMT-Bs no benefits) However Medics get 40 Gs and a full "package"
But then the rate the medic is hired at is the same rate that he will be paid for his whole career ( we do get a 1% Cost of living increase)