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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Active Shooter training as a safety meeting topic
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Author Topic: Active Shooter training as a safety meeting topic  (Read 9786 times)
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2015, 11:00:56 PM »

And if you look back at most of the active shooter incidents they have all happened primarily at a gun free zone area.

All active shooters are not stupid. Their tactics constantly evolve and so must ours.

No one implied that the people who conduct said acts were/are.  They get their high casualty rate due to the imposed so-called safe zones. One thing that governments from the city all the way up to DC need to look at it is their so called "safe zones, gun free zones" are a major contributing factor in the high casualty rates.  When you create these so called "safe zones" and try to impose more stringent gun-control laws this is exactly what you get.  You get prime hunting grounds for people to inflict mass damage and injury upon the populace. 
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Live2Learn
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 646

« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2015, 02:06:50 AM »

...They get their high casualty rate due to the imposed so-called safe zones...

The politics and issues of gun control is relevant in a broader 2nd amendment and 'hard vs soft target' discussion, But not to the discussion at hand.  I suggest we refocus to the original question of how, and whether to discuss active shooters in the world withn which we live, rather than the world that we might prefer.  This is not a debate about the 2nd Amendment.  Cadets cannot legally carry a concealed firearm. It's not to this forum to decide whether or not teachers, janitors, or CEO's work with a weapon on their person. I suggest those of us who have a strong opinion on 2nd Amendment issues participate personally and directly in the electoral process, and of course VOTE.

In many, if not most active shooter events potential victims will not have guns.  In previous events armed defenders showed up after untrained and unprepared vitims were killed execution style.  However, in some instances where intended targets refused to become victims the result was fewer deaths and fewer injuries.  For example, a recent attack in Washington was foiled when one person seized the iniative and tackled the shooter.  Of course, we are all aware of the four Americans who took down a jihadist on the French train about a year ago.

For those who have done training as either students or instructors, how did you structure it?  How much time did you devote?  Did you use an entire meeting?  Part of a meeting?  Did you do the training as part of a weekend event?  Was it in your regular meeting place?  Was it lecture?  Did you use role playing, simulations, or other means to offer participants some sense of what they might do to escape, what should be considered if they attempt to hide, and both WHEN and HOW to fight? 

Some people in CAP have personally experinced an active shooter event.  How did you identify them?  What did you do to effectively mitigate any adverse reactions to thir past trauma when you planned, prepared, and then carried out the training?

We have a wealth of experience in CAP.  Please share it.  PM me.  I would be delighted to speak with you about yur experience as an instructor, training participant, or one who has been touched by the evil actions of an active shooter attack.
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umpirecali
Forum Regular

Posts: 102
Unit: MER-VA-060

« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2015, 02:45:59 AM »

As our squadron's safety officer I have been contemplating having this as a topic. We have several LEOs in our squadron who could facilitate this discussion.  In addition to presenting this as a topic one night, I would like to draft a written plan.  Our meeting space comprises of two floors and and we often have most seniors and most cadets in separate locations.  Given the chaos of the an unknown situation, it would helpful for the senior leadership to know the plan.  The time of the event is not the time to start contemplating "what do we do" and "where do we go". 
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Capt Chris Cali, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Safety Officer
Emergency Service Training Officer
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2015, 03:13:47 AM »


The politics and issues of gun control is relevant in a broader 2nd amendment and 'hard vs soft target' discussion, But not to the discussion at hand.  I suggest we refocus to the original question of how, and whether to discuss active shooters in the world withn which we live, rather than the world that we might prefer.  This is not a debate about the 2nd Amendment.  Cadets cannot legally carry a concealed firearm. It's not to this forum to decide whether or not teachers, janitors, or CEO's work with a weapon on their person. I suggest those of us who have a strong opinion on 2nd Amendment issues participate personally and directly in the electoral process, and of course VOTE.


Sorry but the politics involved correlate and are a major contributing factor to these incidents as they all have occurred in gun free and supposed safe zones and are totally relevant to this topic.  EVERY TIME one of these incidents happen there is the universal cry for stricter and more gun control laws, when it is a failure by the powers to be to look at everything as a whole.  Sorry but you can't say it's not a 2nd Amendment debate when every time one of these events occur it gets brought up and is attempted to be infringed upon. 

Politicians created these zones that allow the individuals who plan and commit these acts to have a free and open access to plenty of victims and that is a plain as day black and white fact.  The politics behind it are just as much if not the main culprit to blame for these incidents. 
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Spam
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,124
Unit: GA-001

« Reply #24 on: December 24, 2015, 04:46:00 AM »

Cadets cannot legally carry a concealed firearm.

They can in my state, if over 18, open carry or concealed, with a Georgia Weapons Carry License. My unit has had several eligible, actually, though they wouldn't ever violate CAPR 900-3.


'Merica!

(... and Jawjah!)

Cheers
Spam

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THRAWN
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,873

« Reply #25 on: December 24, 2015, 10:18:16 AM »

As our squadron's safety officer I have been contemplating having this as a topic. We have several LEOs in our squadron who could facilitate this discussion.  In addition to presenting this as a topic one night, I would like to draft a written plan.  Our meeting space comprises of two floors and and we often have most seniors and most cadets in separate locations.  Given the chaos of the an unknown situation, it would helpful for the senior leadership to know the plan.  The time of the event is not the time to start contemplating "what do we do" and "where do we go".

Where do.you meet? Does your facility have a plan? Talk to your host installation and local LE before you waste time on a plan that doesnt fit with everyone elses...
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Strup
"Belligerent....at times...."
AFRCC SMC 10-97
NSS ISC 05-00
USAF SOS 2000
USAF ACSC 2011
US NWC 2016
isuhawkeye
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,312

John's web site
« Reply #26 on: December 24, 2015, 10:48:07 AM »

I have a roughly 2 hour presentation on the topic that is geared to those who can not or will not carry a firearm.  It starts with situational awareness, then goes into the OODA Loop.  The next section is the Run, Hide, Fight Material, and it ends with hands on first aid skills primarily looking at the application of tourniquets. 

Your position on the "fight" aspect of response is a very personal one, and must be sorted out based on a lot of variables.   

No matter what you decide to do everyone should have an understanding of basic first aid with practical application of tourniquets. 
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Flying Pig
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Posts: 5,043

« Reply #27 on: December 24, 2015, 12:14:54 PM »

Kill em all and let God sort em out......  Oh great now it's a religious debate too!!!
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umpirecali
Forum Regular

Posts: 102
Unit: MER-VA-060

« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2015, 04:55:39 PM »


The politics and issues of gun control is relevant in a broader 2nd amendment and 'hard vs soft target' discussion, But not to the discussion at hand.  I suggest we refocus to the original question of how, and whether to discuss active shooters in the world withn which we live, rather than the world that we might prefer.  This is not a debate about the 2nd Amendment.  Cadets cannot legally carry a concealed firearm. It's not to this forum to decide whether or not teachers, janitors, or CEO's work with a weapon on their person. I suggest those of us who have a strong opinion on 2nd Amendment issues participate personally and directly in the electoral process, and of course VOTE.


Sorry but the politics involved correlate and are a major contributing factor to these incidents as they all have occurred in gun free and supposed safe zones and are totally relevant to this topic.  EVERY TIME one of these incidents happen there is the universal cry for stricter and more gun control laws, when it is a failure by the powers to be to look at everything as a whole.  Sorry but you can't say it's not a 2nd Amendment debate when every time one of these events occur it gets brought up and is attempted to be infringed upon. 

Politicians created these zones that allow the individuals who plan and commit these acts to have a free and open access to plenty of victims and that is a plain as day black and white fact.  The politics behind it are just as much if not the main culprit to blame for these incidents.

You're missing the point. The topic to discuss for an active shooter program is not how we prevent an active shooter, or how do we change the electorate or even gun culture. you discuss how to survive an active shooter. I agree with you about gun free zones however this does not need to be discussed when talking about what to do if an active shooter situation arises.
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Capt Chris Cali, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Safety Officer
Emergency Service Training Officer
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2015, 05:36:01 PM »


The politics and issues of gun control is relevant in a broader 2nd amendment and 'hard vs soft target' discussion, But not to the discussion at hand.  I suggest we refocus to the original question of how, and whether to discuss active shooters in the world withn which we live, rather than the world that we might prefer.  This is not a debate about the 2nd Amendment.  Cadets cannot legally carry a concealed firearm. It's not to this forum to decide whether or not teachers, janitors, or CEO's work with a weapon on their person. I suggest those of us who have a strong opinion on 2nd Amendment issues participate personally and directly in the electoral process, and of course VOTE.


Sorry but the politics involved correlate and are a major contributing factor to these incidents as they all have occurred in gun free and supposed safe zones and are totally relevant to this topic.  EVERY TIME one of these incidents happen there is the universal cry for stricter and more gun control laws, when it is a failure by the powers to be to look at everything as a whole.  Sorry but you can't say it's not a 2nd Amendment debate when every time one of these events occur it gets brought up and is attempted to be infringed upon. 

Politicians created these zones that allow the individuals who plan and commit these acts to have a free and open access to plenty of victims and that is a plain as day black and white fact.  The politics behind it are just as much if not the main culprit to blame for these incidents.

You're missing the point. The topic to discuss for an active shooter program is not how we prevent an active shooter, or how do we change the electorate or even gun culture. you discuss how to survive an active shooter. I agree with you about gun free zones however this does not need to be discussed when talking about what to do if an active shooter situation arises.

And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive. 
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Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,325
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2015, 05:59:01 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,650

« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2015, 06:03:00 PM »

And hence the reason why some people are reluctant to talk about this at a CAP meeting.

It was suggested that you can talk about "How to survive" without talking about the politics.  But even here on CAPTALK we can't do that.   Even among a bunch of us who all agree that as a safety topic it is something we could talk about.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2015, 06:45:57 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.  You don't want to be in one you don't place yourself into that dynamic.  If I know I stand a chance of being robbed, carjacked, assaulted, etc. I avoid the areas it can happen I and I avoid areas where I am at a greater chance of being a victim.

You want to survive being in this situation you avoid the areas and circumstances where it can happen. 
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umpirecali
Forum Regular

Posts: 102
Unit: MER-VA-060

« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2015, 08:17:49 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.  You don't want to be in one you don't place yourself into that dynamic.  If I know I stand a chance of being robbed, carjacked, assaulted, etc. I avoid the areas it can happen I and I avoid areas where I am at a greater chance of being a victim.

You want to survive being in this situation you avoid the areas and circumstances where it can happen.

Then you plan resign from CAP since the regs say no guns and we spend most of our time in airports where guns are prohibited.  Outside of CAP I concealed carry everywhere I can legally go, because "the areas and circumstances where it can happen" are the planet earth.  To be sure, there are areas where my situational awareness is more hightened, but you are never out of danger... just ask those poor folks at a bible study in SC. 

with that said.  NONE OF THAT has anything to do with teaching a group of cadet and seniors what to do if an active shooter enters our building. 
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Capt Chris Cali, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Safety Officer
Emergency Service Training Officer
Garibaldi
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,325
Unit: SER-GA-045

Sandy Springs Cadet Squadron
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2015, 08:44:44 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.  You don't want to be in one you don't place yourself into that dynamic.  If I know I stand a chance of being robbed, carjacked, assaulted, etc. I avoid the areas it can happen I and I avoid areas where I am at a greater chance of being a victim.

You want to survive being in this situation you avoid the areas and circumstances where it can happen.

Again, I say....malls, school, the office, the grocery store, the gas station, CAP meetings and activities. Need I continue to point out how asinine that attitude is?

Go hide your head in the sand if you want; I'll live my life outside.
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You can't take the sky from me. Also, I can kill you with my brain. No power in the 'verse can stop me.
abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2015, 08:51:02 PM »

Then you plan resign from CAP since the regs say no guns and we spend most of our time in airports where guns are prohibited.  Outside of CAP I concealed carry everywhere I can legally go, because "the areas and circumstances where it can happen" are the planet earth.  To be sure, there are areas where my situational awareness is more hightened, but you are never out of danger... just ask those poor folks at a bible study in SC. 

with that said.  NONE OF THAT has anything to do with teaching a group of cadet and seniors what to do if an active shooter enters our building.

Nothing of the sort.  But I can tell you that if that type of incident occurs at a CAP event, that prohibition is a contributing factor.  And hate to break it to you buddy but guns are not prohibited in airports.  And if an active shooter ever enters your building then you and the rest of the senior members failed in knowing who belongs there and providing adequate security measures. 

You want to teach to survive a little power point or wanna be youtube video isn't going to cut it.
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abdsp51
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,559
Unit: Classified

« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2015, 08:52:23 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.  You don't want to be in one you don't place yourself into that dynamic.  If I know I stand a chance of being robbed, carjacked, assaulted, etc. I avoid the areas it can happen I and I avoid areas where I am at a greater chance of being a victim.

You want to survive being in this situation you avoid the areas and circumstances where it can happen.

Again, I say....malls, school, the office, the grocery store, the gas station, CAP meetings and activities. Need I continue to point out how asinine that attitude is?

Go hide your head in the sand if you want; I'll live my life outside.

I don't hide my head in the sand. I maintain my SA and I reduce my chances of being a victim.  But this is a typical liberal approach of a sheeple society.
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LSThiker
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 1,830
Unit: Earth

« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2015, 10:17:41 PM »


And the best way to survive an active shooter is to not be placed in that scenario, same as anything else you have to survive.


So....you're suggesting what exactly? Avoid public places? Stop going to the office? Stay at home and hide? Your solution makes absolutely no sense at all.

It makes perfect sense.  You don't want to be in one you don't place yourself into that dynamic.  If I know I stand a chance of being robbed, carjacked, assaulted, etc. I avoid the areas it can happen I and I avoid areas where I am at a greater chance of being a victim.

You want to survive being in this situation you avoid the areas and circumstances where it can happen.

Again, I say....malls, school, the office, the grocery store, the gas station, CAP meetings and activities. Need I continue to point out how asinine that attitude is?

Go hide your head in the sand if you want; I'll live my life outside.

I don't hide my head in the sand. I maintain my SA and I reduce my chances of being a victim.  But this is a typical liberal approach of a sheeple society.

For the exact reasons shown on this forum, this is why we cannot get more rationale discussions regarding these events.  For the record, I am not a Republican/conservative, nor am I a Democrat/liberal.  I am a centrist in these types of discussions. 

The most important question to ask ourselves is, would BBDUs, BDUs, or ABUs be more appropriate for an active shooter incident?  Or would it be best to simply wear the Golf Shirt?  :) 
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Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,664

« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2015, 10:23:39 PM »

I think wearing the BBDU, ABU, or any of those three-letter combinations will induce the active shooter to kill himself. He probably may not know we are not police, and when he sees us in those uniforms... may think that LEOs have arrived.

Whereas if (s)he sees us in the Corporate, may think we are just run-of-the-mill employees, visitors, or whatevers. And we will pay for the consequences...

 :D
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Squadron Administrative Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
umpirecali
Forum Regular

Posts: 102
Unit: MER-VA-060

« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2015, 10:29:26 PM »

Quote

And hate to break it to you buddy but guns are not prohibited in airports.


They are in my state 18.2-287.01

https://vacode.org/18.2-287.01/
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Capt Chris Cali, CAP
Deputy Commander for Seniors
Safety Officer
Emergency Service Training Officer
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Safety  |  Topic: Active Shooter training as a safety meeting topic
 


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