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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: Personal handheld suggestions?
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Author Topic: Personal handheld suggestions?  (Read 9628 times)
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,746

« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2016, 10:21:45 PM »

I know about the P-25 need.

I was considering purchasing my own CAP-compliant radio. I do not see anything on the new regs that prohibit that purchase. But on reading Tribalelder's message, he seems to state that the new regs prohibit CAP members from owning privately-owned radios!

Am I missing something here? Are these two different issues?
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Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,559
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2016, 10:34:16 PM »

I'm a Comm guy, and I've reread the new reg twice now, and I see nothing that precludes member-owned radios. The most important thing I saw in that regard is this:

Quote from: CAPR 100-1
6.1.3. [redacted]  As a result, support for member-owned radios of lesser capability is not a priority of the system engineering.

8.6.3. Compatibility. The CAP VHF-FM system is engineered to use the capabilities of DoD-supplied equipment assigned in accordance with the Table of Allowances. Members owning older equipment of lesser capability shoulder the burden of compatibility. Member-owned radios capable of P-25 operation should be programmed as "Mixed-Mode" receive on both their analog and digital CAP channels, to the maximum extent possible. All CAP radio operators are required to "listen before transmit." Analog-only users should familiarize themselves with the sound of digital modulation in order to facilitate this process.

Several places - Member-owned HF radios should conform, to the extent possible.

Emphasis mine.


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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Luis R. Ramos
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,746

« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2016, 10:51:54 PM »

Dave, that is precisely the section that made me ask.

If the regs state that, what is Tribaelder referring to?
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Squadron Safety Officer
Squadron Communication Officer
Squadron Emergency Services Officer
SarDragon
Global Moderator

Posts: 10,559
Unit: NAVAIRPAC

« Reply #43 on: April 09, 2016, 02:21:39 AM »

Dave, that is precisely the section that made me ask.

If the regs state that, what is Tribaelder referring to?

NFI!
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Dave Bowles
Maj, CAP
AT1, USN Retired
Mitchell Award (unnumbered)
C/WO, CAP, Ret
Slim
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 588

« Reply #44 on: April 09, 2016, 09:31:01 AM »

I'm a Comm guy, and I've reread the new reg twice now, and I see nothing that precludes member-owned radios. The most important thing I saw in that regard is this:

Quote from: CAPR 100-1
6.1.3. [redacted]  As a result, support for member-owned radios of lesser capability is not a priority of the system engineering.

8.6.3. Compatibility. The CAP VHF-FM system is engineered to use the capabilities of DoD-supplied equipment assigned in accordance with the Table of Allowances. Members owning older equipment of lesser capability shoulder the burden of compatibility. Member-owned radios capable of P-25 operation should be programmed as "Mixed-Mode" receive on both their analog and digital CAP channels, to the maximum extent possible. All CAP radio operators are required to "listen before transmit." Analog-only users should familiarize themselves with the sound of digital modulation in order to facilitate this process.

Several places - Member-owned HF radios should conform, to the extent possible.

Emphasis mine.

That's my take on it as well.

I see nothing that says older, analog-only equipment won't be authorized for continued use.  It appears that the status quo will remain; if the mission dictates P-25 and/or encryption, and you don't have compatible equipment, then you'll have what you need issued/supplied to you.
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Slim
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,339

« Reply #45 on: April 09, 2016, 02:31:11 PM »

I'm a Comm guy, and I've reread the new reg twice now, and I see nothing that precludes member-owned radios. The most important thing I saw in that regard is this:

Quote from: CAPR 100-1
6.1.3. [redacted]  As a result, support for member-owned radios of lesser capability is not a priority of the system engineering.

8.6.3. Compatibility. The CAP VHF-FM system is engineered to use the capabilities of DoD-supplied equipment assigned in accordance with the Table of Allowances. Members owning older equipment of lesser capability shoulder the burden of compatibility. Member-owned radios capable of P-25 operation should be programmed as "Mixed-Mode" receive on both their analog and digital CAP channels, to the maximum extent possible. All CAP radio operators are required to "listen before transmit." Analog-only users should familiarize themselves with the sound of digital modulation in order to facilitate this process.

Several places - Member-owned HF radios should conform, to the extent possible.

Emphasis mine.

That's my take on it as well.

I see nothing that says older, analog-only equipment won't be authorized for continued use.  It appears that the status quo will remain; if the mission dictates P-25 and/or encryption, and you don't have compatible equipment, then you'll have what you need issued/supplied to you.
I'll add a caveat - if the equipment is available, it will be issued.

I have seen (and bought) EFJ 51 series handhelds with encryption available on E-Bay. Yes, it is actually installed and can be used when needed. I have two personal EFJ handhelds with it I bought off E-Bay. If I'm in a situation when I need to use encryption, it's just a matter of loading the key(s) and turning it on.
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 804
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2016, 01:17:01 AM »

And this is why I'm glad my radio is P-25 compliant. Moto XTS-5000 woo!
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
K4RMN
Slim
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 588

« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2016, 08:30:50 AM »

And this is why I'm glad my radio is P-25 compliant. Moto XTS-5000 woo!

XTS-3000 FTW!
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Slim
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,667

« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2016, 11:40:36 AM »

Two Tin Cans and Some String!

Old School Baby!
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
ee1993
Recruit

Posts: 26
Unit: MER-NC-082

« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2016, 06:26:54 PM »

Here is my understanding of CAP encryption.  I am not an expert on this so please offer corrections if you find errors or omissions.  EF Johnson 5100 and 5300 radios were almost all capable of some form of encryption if the option was enabled.  However, only the version 6 ES series and version 4 with updated firmware are capable of the current CAP encryption standard that included over-the-air rekeying.  Loading encryption keys requires an EFJ key-loader.  The key-loader is a special piece of hardware and special cable needed to install keys.  The standard programming hardware (RIB) and software cannot access keys. 
Probably the most critical and difficult aspect of encryption is key management.  If a single radio is lost or stolen, any encryption keys loaded must be considered compromised.   So then all radios using any of those keys must be re-keyed.  Without OTA re-keying, all radios must be called back to be where the key-loader can be connected.   You can see why this could become difficult to manage, particularly if keys were given out to a large number of member owned radios.  I suspect the when we finally do move to encryption of corporate radios only a very few select high level members will have keys installed in their personal radios. 

EF Johnson ships new radios with a “free” default encryption key installed.  This is why many squadron 5100 version 6 handhelds have a secure mode that will communicate with another similar 5100 encrypted.  This is not CAP encryption as the key is essentially public.  Some radio may have had the default key erased.  CAP has still not worked out how keys are generated and managed so encryption is now used only in special circumstances.   One that I know of was a cross agency operation on the southern boarder where the outside agencies installed encryption in out aircraft radios and it was removed when the operation was complete.

P25 conventional digital is not encryption.  Most recent higher end scanner radio can receive P25 digital.   As for personal radios, I recommend getting a compliant radio that will do P25 digital and you will be good for almost any mission for many years to come.  The EF Johnson radio have an advantage in that you wing should be able to program the radio for you to wing standards.  If you are licensed you can then get the cable and program you radio to add amateur frequencies for your personal use.  Also, the 5100 is grandfathered a legal for MURS channels if programmed to analog and 1 W transmit only.
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Brad
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 804
Unit: MER-SC-020

« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2016, 11:54:40 PM »

And this is why I'm glad my radio is P-25 compliant. Moto XTS-5000 woo!

XTS-3000 FTW!

Had one and sold it for the 5000, wanted the channel announce on the fireground so I don't have to count clicks.
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Brad Lee
Maj, CAP
Assistant Director of Communications
SCWG
K4RMN
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CAP Talk  |  Operations  |  Tools of the trade  |  Topic: Personal handheld suggestions?
 


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