Award questions

[Майор Хаткевич]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

[TheSkyHornet]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

[Майор Хаткевич]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

[lordmonar]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Yes.  I believe that is what he said.  When you meet the qualifications.....all the qualifications you should get the award, PD level, promotion, specialty track, ES qualification etc.

[arajca]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Cite, please.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Cite, please.

Wing Promotion Board.

[arajca]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Cite, please.

Wing Promotion Board.

Violating regulations:

1-1. General. Criteria for promotion of CAP active members (as defined in CAPR 39-2, paragraph 3-1a), will be applied uniformly throughout Civil Air Patrol. CAP unit supplements to this regulation in the form of publications or oral instructions that change the basic policies, criteria, procedures and practices prescribed herein are prohibited.

[TheSkyHornet]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Incorrect.

To be promoted to Major, you need to meet the minimum eligible requirements and undergo a promotion review at your echelon. The chairman of the board should be a Major or higher, if possible.

Say you were a Captain who was the squadron AEO holding no other duty positions. To be promoted to Major, the promotion board could consist of the squadron personnel officer, professional development officer, and the squadron commander who is a Captain. Your squadron commander has the authority to recommend approval or denial for promotion. Either way, this will be passed along to Wing for approval and authority on the promotion.

A wing echelon board does not need to be held for a squadron officer to promote. The board should be held at the echelon of the individual seeking promotion.

[Майор Хаткевич]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Incorrect.

To be promoted to Major, you need to meet the minimum eligible requirements and undergo a promotion review at your echelon. The chairman of the board should be a Major or higher, if possible.

Say you were a Captain who was the squadron AEO holding no other duty positions. To be promoted to Major, the promotion board could consist of the squadron personnel officer, professional development officer, and the squadron commander who is a Captain. Your squadron commander has the authority to recommend approval or denial for promotion. Either way, this will be passed along to Wing for approval and authority on the promotion.

A wing echelon board does not need to be held for a squadron officer to promote. The board should be held at the echelon of the individual seeking promotion.

Ours go through group and to wing. To be promoted, serving at the unit level alone is not enough.

[Al Sayre]

Yes, but:
CAPR 35-5 1-5.e:  Major. The wing commander is the promoting authority for members assigned to wing headquarters and subordinate units of the wing.

So essentially the criteria is what the WG/CC says it is...

[vorteks]

Well at least you're staying on topic...

[TheSkyHornet]

If he qualifies for an award for what he did, then he deserves it and should get one. Period.

Doesn't work that way for promotions!

Actually, it does. Qualification comes from the review board's determination that you are professionally, mentally, and morally capable of holding the new position. This differs from eligibility, which says "this, this, and this must be accomplished before being considered."

Sure, but for Major and up, you need to be contributing at a level higher than the local unit.

Incorrect.

To be promoted to Major, you need to meet the minimum eligible requirements and undergo a promotion review at your echelon. The chairman of the board should be a Major or higher, if possible.

Say you were a Captain who was the squadron AEO holding no other duty positions. To be promoted to Major, the promotion board could consist of the squadron personnel officer, professional development officer, and the squadron commander who is a Captain. Your squadron commander has the authority to recommend approval or denial for promotion. Either way, this will be passed along to Wing for approval and authority on the promotion.

A wing echelon board does not need to be held for a squadron officer to promote. The board should be held at the echelon of the individual seeking promotion.

Ours go through group and to wing. To be promoted, serving at the unit level alone is not enough.

I'm not understanding where that is allowed.

CAPR 35-5 states that the promotion board comes from the commander appointing one at that echelon. There are exceptional cases for special promotions, but serving at your unit level should suffice for a promotion to O-4. I can see if a CC said "I don't want to recommend you for promotion because I don't feel you have shown us your full potential," but adding in an argument of "You need to serve in more duty positions higher up" is appropriate nor within regulations.

Perhaps your wing has some special approval from NHQ, but I've been reading through CAPR 35-5 and can't find anything on higher echelon promotion boards required for certain grades.

What wing are you with?

Yes, but:
CAPR 35-5 1-5.e:  Major. The wing commander is the promoting authority for members assigned to wing headquarters and subordinate units of the wing.

So essentially the criteria is what the WG/CC says it is...

The Wing Commander does have the authority for O-4, but that does not mean he/she can require the person seeking promotion to serve outside of the squadron. Just because the regs don't say "Anything not covered here is up for grabs" does not mean you can make up random rules for the sake of it.

If CAPR 35-5 was to permit mandating specific positions held to be eligible for promotion, I'm certain is would address that somewhere in the regs.

[TheSkyHornet]

Well at least you're staying on topic...

Welcome to CAPTalk. How often do topics stay on track after the 5th reply?

[SarDragon]

Re: higher level service, there are some PD tracks that require serving at the group and wing level to get some of the boxes checked. It's been a while since I went through them, and realize that requirements have changed, but I think that's still required in some specialties.

[Майор Хаткевич]

Snip

My wing is in my profile to the left of the posts - ILWG.


The understanding, from the experience of others and multiple conversations is that serving at the unit level alone will not qualify you for promotion. Doesn't matter if you're the best, Nat. OTY Admin Officer, PAE, AEO, or any other role. Further, "past" deeds may not be enough, so say I'm active in Encampments every year, currently, but when I'm up for Major, it's been a few years, then no cigar.

[Luis R. Ramos]

So am I reading that in some Wings there is only one Promo board that person has to attend?

That if it is a squadron person, this person attends the squadron Promo Board, but does not attend a Group or Wing board?

If a Group person, he attends a Group board and no Wing board?

In New York, you get past the squadron Promo board, you have to submit papers to the Group, be interviewed, and repeat the procedure at the Wing level.

[Майор Хаткевич]

So am I reading that in some Wings there is only one Promo board that person has to attend?

That if it is a squadron person, this person attends the squadron Promo Board, but does not attend a Group or Wing board?

If a Group person, he attends a Group board and no Wing board?

In New York, you get past the squadron Promo board, you have to submit papers to the Group, be interviewed, and repeat the procedure at the Wing level.

If I'm correct in our situation, the Squadron does the board, then submits to Group. From there, I don't know the details, but if deemed appropriate/acceptable it gets passed on to wing.

[TheSkyHornet]

Perhaps in the above cases it's an SOP in that wing that the squadron submits the recommendation for promotion to group who reviews it to provide their own recommendation to wing based off the squadron report. This is just an assumption of course.

Conducting the promotion board at echelon is the reg under 35-5. The Wing Commander approving it is the reg under 35-5. NHQ may be okay with a further review by group before it goes to wing, but the group doesn't have the authority to halt it, just make their comments on the matter.

[JeffDG]

CAPR 35-5 states that the promotion board comes from the commander appointing one at that echelon.

No, it doesn't:

a. Officer. The commander at each echelon will appoint a promotion board to consider
all promotion and demotion actions and make recommendations to the promoting authority.

The promoting authority for Major is the Wing Commander.  A Wing Promotion Board considers such promotions.

[JeffDG]

Perhaps in the above cases it's an SOP in that wing that the squadron submits the recommendation for promotion to group who reviews it to provide their own recommendation to wing based off the squadron report. This is just an assumption of course.

Conducting the promotion board at echelon is the reg under 35-5. The Wing Commander approving it is the reg under 35-5. NHQ may be okay with a further review by group before it goes to wing, but the group doesn't have the authority to halt it, just make their comments on the matter.

That's incorrect.  If the Group Commander feels that the promotion is inappropriate, he most certainly can halt it right there.  Disapproval can come at any level, but final approval may only be granted by the promoting authority.