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Author Topic: How Best To Avoid Sunburnt Marshallers  (Read 6436 times)
ProdigalJim
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« on: July 06, 2015, 05:06:06 PM »

Advice?

I sprayed 100 SPF sunblock on my arms and mostly bald head and still got pretty severe sunburn after a day on the flight line for o-rides.

Is there a CAP-preferred clip-to-cover solution, since that's the only way you can wear hats on a flight line?
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Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2015, 05:32:50 PM »

How often did you re-apply it? Its recommended that you re-apply sunscreen at least every 2 hours.
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A.Member
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2015, 05:36:31 PM »

Don't use the spray-on sunblock, use the lotion type.  Also, make sure it's not expired.
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THRAWN
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2015, 05:58:53 PM »

Reapply, use the lotion type, get out of the sun as much as possible and into shade.

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Strup
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LSThiker
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2015, 06:02:35 PM »

Advice?

I sprayed 100 SPF sunblock on my arms and mostly bald head and still got pretty severe sunburn after a day on the flight line for o-rides.

Is there a CAP-preferred clip-to-cover solution, since that's the only way you can wear hats on a flight line?

Keep your sleeves rolled down and your BDU top on (yes I know it is "hot" but it is the most effective method).

For neck/head, . 
-Make sure to continue applying sunscreen.  It should be applied 30 minutes before you enter the sun.  Also, even though it may recommend X-number of hours, apply sooner as the sweat will reduce effectiveness. 

-Although evidence suggests there is no significant difference between spray and lotion, try lotion as you may be missing key locations or amounts (see next comment). 

-Apply liberally as a common mistake is not applying enough to begin with

-If you have the bug spray/sunscreen, there is evidence that the bug spray will actually make you more prone to sunburns, which even the American Academy of Dermatology rejects their combination. 

-Use sunscreen that uses zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.  There was a recent article that was just published that shows these two are better than alternative sunscreen methods. 

-Buy new each year.  The products that protect against UVA break down fairly quickly.  So any old sunscreen may not protect you from UVA (although it should be noted that UVB is the chief cause of sunburns, but UVA still causes damage to the skin as it penetrates the furthest).

-"Base tans" do not provide any additional protection against the effects of UV light

If you wear the BBDUs, then wear a boonie.  If not, well I have known other wings that willfully violate the reg for this purpose (which I am not necessarily advocating). 


« Last Edit: July 06, 2015, 06:09:04 PM by LSThiker » Logged
coudano
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2015, 06:13:14 PM »

I try to avoid sunburnt marshallers by landing at airports where there aren't any marshallers working.
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ProdigalJim
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2015, 07:56:37 PM »

Good advice.

FWIW I applied the spray five times between 0930 and about 1730; I think the spray simply didn't stick. My guess is i should have used the thicker, stickier stuff.

I'm thinking a boonie, with a clip to connect it to the collar, is what we need.
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Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
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lordmonar
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2015, 09:30:32 PM »

Wear a hat
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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Al Sayre
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« Reply #8 on: July 07, 2015, 12:22:40 PM »

You guys are overthinking this.  The best way to avoid sunburnt marshallers is to only allow them to marshal at night.   >:D
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Lt Col Al Sayre
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« Reply #9 on: July 07, 2015, 01:36:04 PM »

You guys are overthinking this.  The best way to avoid sunburnt marshallers is to only allow them to marshal at night.   >:D

Almost caffeinated my keyboard.  :o
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C/Cool
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« Reply #10 on: July 07, 2015, 01:57:09 PM »

You guys are overthinking this.  The best way to avoid sunburnt marshallers is to only allow them to marshal at night.   >:D

I would say marshal on an overcast day but I got sunburnt on a completely dark and drizzly day... Tell me how that works.
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LSThiker
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« Reply #11 on: July 07, 2015, 02:12:28 PM »

You guys are overthinking this.  The best way to avoid sunburnt marshallers is to only allow them to marshal at night.   >:D

I would say marshal on an overcast day but I got sunburnt on a completely dark and drizzly day... Tell me how that works.

Because up to 80% of UV light can penetrate cloud cover.  Then if you are on a concrete surface, the concrete can reflect UV light.  It is a myth that you cannot be sunburned on cloudy or even rainy days. 
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LSThiker
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« Reply #12 on: July 07, 2015, 02:14:04 PM »

You guys are overthinking this.  The best way to avoid sunburnt marshallers is to only allow them to marshal at night.   >:D



Because they are going to be looking for Army guys
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Shawn W.
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« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 08:23:03 PM »

Check with your Commander and see if they will authorize head gear for use on the flight line for that particular day.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2015, 05:09:32 PM »

Check with your Commander and see if they will authorize head gear for use on the flight line for that particular day.

I have to respectfully disagree here.

Head gear is not authorized on the flight line near operated aircraft for safety reasons, to both the individual, others in the vicinity, and the aircraft itself. I don't think that's something that should be exempted by chain of command because it's an inconvenience.

Reapplication of sunscreen if it's a problem, but wearing unauthorized gear because it's easier isn't the proper way to go about it. Just my opinion as a novice flight line-er and civilian pilot.
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LSThiker
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« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2015, 05:46:26 PM »

Head gear is not authorized on the flight line near operated aircraft for safety reasons, to both the individual, others in the vicinity, and the aircraft itself. I don't think that's something that should be exempted by chain of command because it's an inconvenience.

Reapplication of sunscreen if it's a problem, but wearing unauthorized gear because it's easier isn't the proper way to go about it. Just my opinion as a novice flight line-er and civilian pilot.

While generally not advised, but that is not to say it is prohibited either.  It is usually a command decision, assuming the airport manager allows it to be begin with:

A picture from NBB:



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lordmonar
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« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2015, 05:56:14 PM »

+1
That it is SOP on USAF bases does not mean it makes sense.   Lots of busy airports allow them.  So it is not really a safety issue. 
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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HGjunkie
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« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2015, 06:01:53 PM »

+1
That it is SOP on USAF bases does not mean it makes sense.   Lots of busy airports allow them.  So it is not really a safety issue.

And there are even exceptions on USAF bases... the USAFA airfield instructors wear hats all the time and let cadets wear them. So.
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jeders
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« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2015, 06:12:28 PM »

Head gear is not authorized on the flight line near operated aircraft for safety reasons, to both the individual, others in the vicinity, and the aircraft itself. I don't think that's something that should be exempted by chain of command because it's an inconvenience.

Reapplication of sunscreen if it's a problem, but wearing unauthorized gear because it's easier isn't the proper way to go about it. Just my opinion as a novice flight line-er and civilian pilot.

That is by no means a universal rule and is entirely up to whoever owns the ramp. In fact, I've seen more places where headgear is authorized than not.
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Shawn W.
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« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2015, 12:26:24 AM »

Quote
That is by no means a universal rule and is entirely up to whoever owns the ramp. In fact, I've seen more places where headgear is authorized than not.

+1

I used to be a professional marshaller on the ramp of a very busy international airport.. I and other ramp agents wore hats all the time.
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TheSkyHornet
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« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2015, 08:40:22 AM »

I stand corrected with it being SOPs.

It is, however, discussed in the Aircraft Ground Handling training course as a practice that should not be conducted.

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NC Hokie
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« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2015, 10:55:41 AM »

+1
That it is SOP on USAF bases does not mean it makes sense.   Lots of busy airports allow them.  So it is not really a safety issue.

+1 more

NCWG recently participated in an air show at Seymour Johnson AFB.  As usual, USAF and CAP personnel had to remain uncovered.  We suffered while 100,000 + civilians enjoying the show wore all manner of headgear.  It is what it is.
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ProdigalJim
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« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2015, 12:12:54 PM »

It is what it is, but I don't want it to be what it is forever!  8)

I have run across local supplements on Air Force bases in which headgear is permitted so long as it's connected to the uniform via a lanyard...so the hat can only go so far and not leave your person.

Sunscreen doesn't always work and I got really, really ill, so I'm going at this as a genuine safety issue.

Think I'll put together a formal suggestion for the chain about boonie hats with a lanyard when conditions warrant.
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Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
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LSThiker
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« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2015, 02:31:29 PM »

Think I'll put together a formal suggestion for the chain about boonie hats with a lanyard when conditions warrant.

Over the numerous years, I have spoke with plenty of wing and region commanders about this issue.  A number of them have stated that it was raised to the USAF level for the BDUs on a number of occasions.  However, it keeps getting rejected by the USAF.  This is the reason why the Corporate uniform allows the boonies, while the USAF-style BDU does not allow it.  Nevertheless, good luck.
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jdh
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« Reply #24 on: July 11, 2015, 01:02:21 AM »

I have seen what a piece of headgear can do to an engine when it gets sucked in and I've seen what can happen when someone goes chasing something across a flightline and loses an arm to a rotor. I will NEVER allow headgear on any flightline that I am running.
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SarDragon
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« Reply #25 on: July 11, 2015, 02:38:49 AM »

There's a HUGE difference between the pros who do this every day, and the occasional CAP member who, if incredibly lucky, gets to do it once a month. I learned marshalling in CAP, and continued in the Navy. At one point, it was a daily task. In all that time, I never wore unsecured headgear on a flight line. A boonie doesn't fit that category, IMHO.
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Dave Bowles
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lordmonar
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« Reply #26 on: July 11, 2015, 08:06:35 AM »

I have seen what a piece of headgear can do to an engine when it gets sucked in and I've seen what can happen when someone goes chasing something across a flightline and loses an arm to a rotor. I will NEVER allow headgear on any flightline that I am running.
I've seen what a person's body can do to an engine.......so does that mean we never allow people on any flight line?

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
JeffDG
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« Reply #27 on: July 11, 2015, 10:27:15 AM »

I have seen what a piece of headgear can do to an engine when it gets sucked in and I've seen what can happen when someone goes chasing something across a flightline and loses an arm to a rotor. I will NEVER allow headgear on any flightline that I am running.
I've seen what a person's body can do to an engine.......so does that mean we never allow people on any flight line?
Well, that's certainly one way to avoid sun-burnt marshallers.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #28 on: July 11, 2015, 11:30:16 AM »

Lord-

No, because a person will not seek an engine on purpose. On the other hand, a hat... will look for engines on purpose.






[Disclaimer, I am taking this as sarcasm, I know you know better!]
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LSThiker
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« Reply #29 on: July 11, 2015, 01:17:09 PM »

Again, all of this is command discretion.  You can easily argue for and against the wear of hats on the flightline.  The fact that a hat remains a potential FOD is a valid argument as well as how a hat prevents sunburn (which any amount of sunburn is considered unsafe even if it is just once a month).

There are USAF commanders that prohibit and there are USAF commanders that allow it.  For example:

Quote from: 403D WING INSTRUCTION 21-104
2.2. The wearing of hats on the flightline is authorized due to the severe weather at this location. Hats with chin straps will have the chin strap stowed or removed unless the chin strap is a functional part of Personnel Protective Equipment (i.e. hard hats). Hats will not be worn in the immediate vicinity of aircraft while engines are operating. Immediate area is defined as 25 feet from any aircraft intake.

Quote from: DOVERAFBI21-105
2.9. The flight line is a no hat area for military personnel. However, “Civilian employees are authorized to wear hats on the flight line when exposure to the sun presents a health concern.”(DAFBI 13-202 Dated 6 Jan 2007 Par. 5.9.2.1)

The same goes for CAP commanders.  Numerous wings have the general impression is flat out prohibited.  However, there is no reg that strictly states that CAP will not wear hats on the flightline and NBB is a prime example of it.  For all of the years that CAP has done NBB, I do not think there has ever been an incident of a CAP hat being sucked into a propeller.

However, we must also assess  what kind of aircraft are we really taxiing?  Most of the time, we marshal aircraft because of non-standard practices at a fly-in type of event.  Those aircraft are usually getting parked in the grass at an airport and are generally small GA aircraft.    Yes, of course this is not always the case and I am sure people will get up and say well back at XYZ airshow I marshaled a C-5 Galaxy.

In addition, I have seen plenty of CAP events were the members are providing crowd/line control.  They are not actually marshaling any aircraft or are generally too far from any active aircraft.  The crowd around us all have hats.  Yet commanders go with the "well it is a flightline of an airport therefore we must remove the cover".  That type of response is unnecessary. 

The bottom line is, common sense and situational awareness needs to be applied.  A single hard and fast rule of no hats on a flightline is ridiculous.   
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ProdigalJim
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« Reply #30 on: July 11, 2015, 07:16:52 PM »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This.

Exactly, + 1.

A hard-and-fast rule is silly and unsupported by the regs. Just to be clear, I'm not advocating an "unsecured" piece of headgear. There are lanyards that cost about $4.00 that are designed exactly for the purpose of keeping your headgear attached to your person. And there are Air Force bases that have created local instructions permitting headgear on the flight line, when secured with a lanyard, if there's a safety-related need for that headgear.

Remember, not all marshalers are cadets...sometimes they're bald guys...  ;)

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Jim Mathews, Maj., CAP
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My Mitchell Has Four Digits...
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