Clarification on Customs & Courtesies

[Cadet12354]

I realize that these questions have been partly covered in the past, but it was several years ago (things might have been updated since then), and they were not exactly answering all my questions.  If anyone wants to correct me on that, I would be happy to look at old threads for answers on some of these; I'm still learning how to use the search feature effectively.

Here is a list of things that I need clarification on.

1. Is the room called to attention for cadet officers?  This sounds like a no-brainer, but this was pointed out to me by another cadet a short while ago:
CAPP 151, Respect On Display, says this:
     "If an officer who is higher ranking than anyone present enters the room, the first person to notice commands, "Room, ATTENTION." If only senior members or officers are present, the first to notice the commander uses the more cordial, 'Ladies and gentlemen, the commander' instead."
     At first, I was thinking, "It says officer, without differentiating between cadet officers and senior member officers.  Therefore, we should assume that it applies to both."  The other cadet pointed out to me that when the manuals say "officer," they mean senior member officer.  Cadet officers are referred to as "cadet officer."  Then again, it says "If only senior members or officers are present...," so that makes me wonder if it might apply to cadet officers.  Yet again, it could mean, "When senior member NCOs and senior member officers..."  It could also mean, "When CAP senior members or military officers...."  Or, it could mean, "When senior members or cadet officers...."
     I understand that the pamphlet is not a manual and thus does not have the same wording, but does anyone have any insight as to which one this means?

2. Back to the quote from CAPP 151:
     "If an officer who is higher ranking than anyone present enters the room, the first person to notice commands, "Room, ATTENTION." If only senior members or officers are present, the first to notice the commander uses the more cordial, 'Ladies and gentlemen, the commander' instead."
     So, if the squadron CC, a Captain, is in the room, and a Lt Col walks into a roomful of officers, how is the room called to attention?  They cannot say "Ladies and gentlemen, the commander," because the Lt Col is not the commander.  It is my general impression that whoever wrote that part wrote it without remembering about the whole rank vs grade dilemma that CAP generally has at squadron level.
     My question about that is this: I understand that the customs and courtesies are shown by grade (such as Lt Col, Capt, 1st Lt, etc), not by rank (commander, deputy commander, etc).  Yet what do you do about the "Ladies and gentlemen, the commander" example?  In my hypothetical situation about the CC, a Capt, already in a roomful of officers, and a Lt Col walks in, I suppose someone might say, "Ladies and gentlemen, Col 'Smith.'"  But then, shouldn't you announce the commander by name, too?

3. Customs and courtesies go back to simple politeness and respect.  So, what if someone does not want to be saluted?  A real situation is at HMRS (I know, I know... Not the best place for an example of military customs and courtesies, but still...).  Sometimes, I will be walking around there.  I will pass a senior member officer who has some sort of non-command position.  I salute.  They salute back, but look like they do not really want to do it.  Now, these officers are generally very good at what they do and are, overall, a credit to CAP.  They just want to do their jobs and do not always place a high value on customs and courtesies.  I'm not saying that everyone at HMRS is like that; there are way too many people there to make such a generalization.  However, it is true for some people, at least.  I'm also not asking whether these officers are right to do that or not; the fact is that they do not find it to be the best way to show respect.  Should I still salute them if I can tell that they don't really want to be saluted?  Is that still respectful to do?

4. The USAF Drill and Ceremonies manual (AFMAN36-2203) tells about a bugle call.  It states: "On certain occasions, such as during inclement weather or when a band is not present
for a retreat ceremony, To The Color is played instead of the national anthem. To The Color is a bugle call sounded as a salute to the flag and it symbolizes respect to the nation and the flag the same as the national anthem does."
     That shows part of my question.  Here is what shows the other part.  From CAPP 151: "It is not customary to salute stationary flagstaffs, except when the National Anthem or To the Colors plays."
     So, is the bugle call "To the Color," as the USAF drill manual says, or "To the Colors," as I have seen in many CAP sources?  Or does its name change by organization?


Before anyone mentions it, yes, I did ask my chain of command about some of these.  That is how I got so confused.

Thank you for any help that can be provided.

[lordmonar]

1.  Yes....if only cadets are in the room then you can call the room to attention for cadet officers.  Also please note...that CAP publications are not consistent by any means.   Officer means officer....cadet or other wise.   But note...that if a Senior Member NCO is in the room....don't be calling him to attention for a C/Lt.

2.  Depend on who the Lt Col is.   The squadron commander by position out ranks anyone in his squadron....even the former National Commander.  But if Lt Col Group Commander show up...then you call the room to attention.  Also please note...that the rules for an officer only environment is different then an enlisted or mixed environment.   Officers generally don't call the room to attention.  They say Ladies and Gentlemen the commander.    If a room full of Capts are sitting around the conference table and the Major DO walks in....no one jumps up and says "The DO".   It's just not done that way.   

3.  If an officer does not want to be saluted...he will tell you.   And a suggestion from a superior officers is an order.  If he/she does not tell you otherwise...then you render proper customs and courtesies.  It is allowable in certain environments to dispense with the customs and courtesies.   In the field for instance.  If you are in close proximity and working together....you don't have to render a salute every time you pass withing 5 feet of each other.    Same with "good morning/afternoon/evening sir-ma'am" If you are working closely with someone...say it first time you see him....but not every single time you pass them in the hall and not to every single one you passe.   Remember the plural of sir is gentlemen and plural of Ma'am is ladies.  If it sounds silly....it is silly.

4.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bugle_call#To_The_Colors according to Wiki....either or.

Finally.....if any of our advice differes from the instructions or the opinions of your chain of command.....you know who wins that argument?  Right?

[LSThiker]

Customs and Courtesies can be extremely confusing.  A lot of it is based on a solid foundation followed by what seems best. 

For officers in a room, you never call the room to attention.  This is considered disrespectful for officers, with some minor exceptions (i.e. attention to orders).  When stating, "Ladies and Gentlemen, the commander" is only used when the commander of that particular event level or higher is entering.  For example, if it is a wing event, you would not state "Ladies and Gentlemen, the alpha squadron commander" followed by "Ladies and Gentlemen, the bravo squadron commander".  You would only say it when the wing commander or above enters.  However, if you are standing around at a squadron meeting and the squadron commander enters, you would state "Ladies and Gentlemen, the commander".  If after that the wing commander should enter, you would again state "Ladies and Gentlemen, the wing commander".   

Also, you only say it for commanders or the official of the event.  That is, in a formal briefing, you may stand for the DO as he is giving the briefing.  However, at a commander's call, you would not stand when the DO walks in, even if that person is a full Colonel.     


One really confusing point is when you switch between Army posts and Air Force Bases.

For Reveille on an Army post, you salute the music Reveille as that is when the flag is raised (TC 3-21.5 13-6c).  No other music is played after that.  However, for the Air Force, they play Reveille as a means for the attachment of the flag to the pole.  Then, after Reveille, the National Anthem or To The Color is played and a Present ARMS is executed (AFMAN 36-2203 7.24.4).

For Retreat on an Army post, you stand at Parade REST for the Retreat music.  After the last note, the National Anthem or To The Color is played, which you execute Present ARMS.  The Air Force is the same.