other interesting tid bits from NER conf

[abdsp51]

"There is a process in place..." Not true, I'm afraid. It would be more accurate to say "There are numerous processes in place... with people having to guess which one is in place where, then hope that it hasn't changed since last time or even since verifying it yesterday.

And, you're making the point in your last sentence. Specifically, it NEEDS to be in AFI31-XXXX for the exact reasons you stated.

Every base has its process yes most of hose processes are generally the same.  No one wants to make the valls to the right people to figure it out.  The process at Travis was easy itvwas written into their local 31 zeries then into the IDP. 

DM also had a process first they were crying it needed to have a sponsor to oh just do an eal to now just get a pass.  Again the org was written into the IDP with very little leg work. 

And thank you for agreeing with the point made.  The 31 series is what our Defenders will follow because that is there bible.  You can tout the AAFES AFI all day long you can tout the one 10 series all day long.  If its not in the 31 series and in the IDP your going to have to jump through hoops. 

Amd every desk sgt, flt chief, and ops super is going to back the EC all day long Gor followig the idp and that series. 

[RiverAux]

We are not contractors

We aren't?  While I certainly don't like this formulation a lot, but we have a grant and a scope of work that we get "paid" for....

I personally don't like this formulation, but an argument could be made...

[JeffDG]

We are not contractors

We aren't?  While I certainly don't like this formulation a lot, but we have a grant and a scope of work that we get "paid" for....

I personally don't like this formulation, but an argument could be made...

CAP, Inc. is a contractor for the USAF, and employees of CAP, Inc. can be considered contractors, but members are not employees, legally.

[RiverAux]

Of course not, but we are the people that carry out the contract...  Anyway, not really arguing that we should be treated as contractors but rather that there is little difference between us and them other than we actually have a legally-mandated permanent relationship with the Air Force.

It would be very interesting to see CAP more formally integrated into Air Force doctrine as an official component.  I think that would be a good first step towards actually developing a more productive relationship at all levels.  If nothing else, knowledge of CAP would slowly worm its way into the formal AF education system and eventually most people in the AF would have at least some basic knowledge about us and that we're actually legit. 

[lordmonar]

We are not contractors

We aren't?  While I certainly don't like this formulation a lot, but we have a grant and a scope of work that we get "paid" for....

I personally don't like this formulation, but an argument could be made...

Not as defined by the regulation for getting a DBIDs card.

And that's the key.

A contractor........is an origination that has a contract with a unit on the base in question.

For access the contractor sends a list of the employees who need access to service the contract to a the COR (Contracting Officer of Record) who verifies that the contract is still valid and defines what sort of access the contractor needs.

That list then goes to Pass and ID who inputs the information into the system and gets a go/no go for each individual.

The contractor is notified that the employee is good to go....and they then come to base and get the card.

CAP does not fit that bill because  a) we don't have  contract with the local base.  b) We don't have a local officer officer who can act as our sponosr or COR (the local CAP RAPs don't count nor do the Liason Region personnel....unless they are actually at that base).  c) Most of us don't have a need to get access to a base on a regular basis.

LIke I said there is no CAP shaped hole in the regulation.   

It is not like the base personnel don't want us on base (at least here on Nellis).....it is just that the AFIs don't fit us...and no one is willing to stick their neck out for us and just say "ignore the AFI it will be okay".

[sarmed1]

... b) We don't have a local officer officer who can act as our sponosr or COR (the local CAP RAPs don't count nor do the Liason Region personnel....unless they are actually at that base).  ...

actually CAP does:

3.2.3. Liaison at Air Force Installations. Support from Air Force installations is important for
CAP to carry out its missions. Liaison activities at this level typically involve coordinating the
use of facilities and services of the installation. Installation commanders will appoint a field
grade officer to assist the CAP-USAF Liaison Region personnel and to act as a liaison with CAP
units conducting activities on the installation. (T-3). Installation commanders will provide the
designee's name, rank, office symbol and telephone number to CAP-USAF Liaison Region
Commander and will update this information annually or when installation liaison turnover
occurs. (T-3).

this "base liaison" officer could fill that role.  However, I have found thru my travels that most bases (even ones that have a CAP unit) usually dont have a liaison officer, and if they do typically they dont really know what they are supposed to be or can be doing...

[lordmonar]

this "base liaison" officer could fill that role.  However, I have found thru my travels that most bases (even ones that have a CAP unit) usually dont have a liaison officer, and if they do typically they dont really know what they are supposed to be or can be doing...

That is my experience too. 

[Mitchell 1969]

We are not contractors

We aren't?  While I certainly don't like this formulation a lot, but we have a grant and a scope of work that we get "paid" for....

I personally don't like this formulation, but an argument could be made...

CAP, Inc. is a contractor for the USAF, and employees of CAP, Inc. can be considered contractors, but members are not employees, legally.

"...members are not employees, legally."

Except when they are, legally.

The test of "employee vs non-employee" is not necessarily based on compensation vs no compensation. Unpaid volunteers can be held to be employees for some purposes under some conditions. So, as with many things legal ..... It depends.

[TexasBEAST]

Has anybody ever considered making CAP ID cards like the DHS FEMA PIV (Personal Identity Verification) cards? I don't know how well they would open doors on military bases, but they are definitely supposed to open doors in the emergency response community. They have chips and strips built into them specifically for doing exactly that: opening doors.