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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO
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Author Topic: NCO  (Read 106591 times)
JeffDG
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 3,157

« Reply #400 on: April 30, 2015, 06:35:04 PM »

Maybe we'll see something after this weekend.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,642

« Reply #401 on: April 30, 2015, 07:15:17 PM »

        -   Gen Vazquez and Mr. Salvador request success stories

Are they willing to listen to failure stories as well? If all they want to hear are success stories, then that's all that will be reported.
By all means....if you got failure stories....send them up as well.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,680

« Reply #402 on: April 30, 2015, 08:13:17 PM »

The problem with any success (or failure) story is that most would be based on the individual NCOs and not on the chevrons being worn. We have plenty of great military NCOs currently serving as CAP officers. We also have some great CAP NCOs. But for any story to be valid and applicable to the NCO program, it would have to be dependent on the NCO grade and status of the member and not just on the individual's training, skills, experience and leadership, since those qualities have nothing to do with the grade insignia being worn. Now, if we can show that many exceptional CAP NCOs wouldn't have joined CAP as officers or wouldn't have assumed the roles they have if it wasn't as NCOs, then maybe we have a story to tell.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,642

« Reply #403 on: April 30, 2015, 08:21:03 PM »

What we want to show....is that the mission will still get done....even if some of us are wearing stripes.

This is part of the Strategic Communications Plan....that is educating the members at large that NCOs are not a bad thing.

It is part of shifting the mind set of the rank and  file who don't know anything about the military....what NCO are capable of.

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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Mitchell 1969
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 784
Unit: PCR-CA-051

« Reply #404 on: April 30, 2015, 10:19:49 PM »

To be honest, if people try to make it into a caste system, it will become one. I don't see that happening.

In fact, if that happened in our squadron it would be the first sign that it is time for me to leave.

Same if we blew up the entire rank system.

There are plenty of ES groups without a military background that exist if I wanted to join one of those.

Think of it like Star Trek: No one gave O'Brian guff for only being an NCO, and we all know that he is the reason the Enterprise and DS9 ran for as long as they did without blowing up.

If the CAP NCO program expands as envisioned, I am sure our leadership will try to prevent our grade structure into a Caste system, however perception is a very strong motivator.  One of the major reasons the program was killed off in the 70's was due, in part, to the perception of "separateness".   Maybe we can prevent it from happening.  Maybe we have evolved enough to emulate life as in Star Trek; where it is common for some one like an O'Brien to marry a Kieko (or was she a civilian?)  :D

By any chance, do you have any documentation about that issue in the 70's program?

I have distinct memories of the issue from the era. Included in those memories - discussion, briefings and, yes, some of that was in writing. As with most transitory stuff, I tossed it (especially since I wasn't personally impacted).  I've said it before, though - there might be a Historian opportunity (or obligation) with all that.
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_________________
Bernard J. Wilson, Major, CAP

Mitchell 1969; Earhart 1971; Eaker 1973. Cadet Flying Encampment, License, 1970. IACE New Zealand 1971; IACE Korea 1973.

CAP has been bery, bery good to me.
arajca
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 4,268

« Reply #405 on: April 30, 2015, 10:21:07 PM »

No one is arguing the mission won't get done with NCOs. The new NCO program is based on, IMHO, a false assumption - that NCO grades are essential to CAP.

All the nice words about the roles of NCOs in CAP as D&C experts, Keepers of heritage, Uniform Gurus, get wiped out when you bring in non-military NCOs. And, since that phase is on permanent hold, that makes whats left of the program an ego boast/stroke for current NCOs (and those who may qualify as prior military).

It also brings us back to the same question that has, as far I as can see, never really been answered - What is the benefit to CAP to create a NCO corps?
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PHall
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Posts: 6,139

« Reply #406 on: April 30, 2015, 11:12:48 PM »

Solution looking for a problem... ::)
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Storm Chaser
Salty & Seasoned Contributor

Posts: 2,680

« Reply #407 on: April 30, 2015, 11:17:28 PM »

In all fairness, whether we agree with it or not, Pat has posted his vision of the NCO corps and how he and others think it would benefit the organization multiple times. The new program benefits current NCOs by allowing them to promote; nothing wrong with that. One of the main benefits to expanding the NCO corps beyond that would be the ability to attract prior military NCOs who otherwise would have no interest in joining CAP as officers.

As I understand Pat's vision (or at least part of it) of an expanded NCO corps (and this would probably be many years down the road), there would be a shift in CAP membership from officer-centric to NCO-centric. In other words, the majority of our members would be NCOs with fewer officers in command and key staff positions. That would go hand-in-hand with allowing non-prior military personnel to become CAP NCOs and increasing the requirements to become a CAP officer.
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lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,642

« Reply #408 on: May 01, 2015, 12:02:30 AM »

No one is arguing the mission won't get done with NCOs. The new NCO program is based on, IMHO, a false assumption - that NCO grades are essential to CAP.
No one.....and I mean NO ONE....has ever said that.
In fact I have said the complete opposite of that several times.

If this does not pan out.....we go back to the old ways....no harm...no foul.   
Quote
It also brings us back to the same question that has, as far I as can see, never really been answered - What is the benefit to CAP to create a NCO corps?
Asked and answered many many many times.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
lordmonar
Too Much Free Time Award

Posts: 10,642

« Reply #409 on: May 01, 2015, 12:03:06 AM »

Solution looking for a problem... ::)
so you have said...thanks for the input...I'll pass your feed back to the Chief.  8)
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: NCO
 


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