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Author Topic: Taking bets - When Will NHQ Make Pipelining Mandatory?  (Read 6423 times)
Майор Хаткевич
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« on: February 19, 2015, 02:05:11 PM »

To Preface, I would like to take my unit to a quarterly pipeline for recruiting.


A few reasons for this - Great Start, Wingman Course, synergy, "grouping" of cadets, etc.


There may be some down sides, especially with older cadets joining, but overall the ROI seems best with this model.


Why do I think NHQ will mandate pipeline recruiting? Everything they release requires a certain timeframe for new cadets to complete, with strong suggestions of using Great Start.


Try doing Great Start today with your new cadet, and again in 2-5 weeks when the next one wonders into the meeting. It's not feasible.



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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2015, 02:16:49 PM »

Why do I think NHQ will mandate pipeline recruiting?

Never beyond a best practice.

For better or worse CAP isn't in a position to be turning away members, especially cadets, and the average
charter-minimum unit isn't staffed for, nor recruiting at a level that supports pipelining.   When your recruiting plan
is "we hope someone notices us" there not much point to making the two that wander in looking for a bathroom
wait months to join.

In larger units with coherent annual plans, the pipeline makes a lot more sense.

There's also the non-trivial issue that cadets have an expiration date, and holding them back could reduce their
opportunities, not an issue for all, but needs to be in the conversation.  For example, what do you do with older
cadets who could still get in O-Rides before turning 18, except for being held back by a unit's pipeline schedule?

How about cadets who join with Spaatz on their mind and the pipeline delay makes that impossible?  How about the
a cadet who really needs Mitchell, but a 6-8 month join delay makes that impossible, either because of his age or
his anticipated entry date?
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2015, 02:20:32 PM »

Why do I think NHQ will mandate pipeline recruiting?

Never beyond a best practice.

For better or worse CAP isn't in a position to be turning away members, especially cadets, and the average
charter-minimum unit isn't staffed for, nor recruiting at a level that supports pipelining.   When your recruiting plan
is "we hope someone notices us" there not much point to making the two that wander in looking for a bathroom
wait months to join.

In larger units with coherent annual plans, the pipeline makes a lot more sense.

There's also the non-trivial issue that cadets have an expiration date, and holding them back could reduce their
opportunities, not an issue for all, but needs to be in the conversation.  For example, what do you do with older
cadets who could still get in O-Rides before turning 18, except for being held back by a unit's pipeline schedule?

How about cadets who join with Spaatz on their mind and the pipeline delay makes that impossible?  How about the
a cadet who really needs Mitchell, but a 6-8 month join delay makes that impossible, either because of his age or
his anticipated entry date?


Quarterly = less than 3 month delay.


Exceptions can be made, EXCEPT there's a A LOT of MANDATORY Training that has to be done in either a group setting or in a certain timeframe to be done.


Lots of good reasons, but lets face it, missed opportunities are just that. If you joined 3 months before turning 18, yea, you're probably going to miss out on some o-flights. As to "Spaatz" timing, there's no guarantee that 38 months is how fast you'll get there (and typically, those who join for the goal and not the journey, don't).
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Ned
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« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2015, 02:28:06 PM »



Why do I think NHQ will mandate pipeline recruiting?

We have no plans to do so.  As in "no plans whatsoever."  We have neither discussed such a thing, or suggested anything like that to the command group.

And if we should begin to consider mandating it, we would open a discussion with the field before taking any actions.  We have a pretty good track record of consulting with the line folks.  Look at all the drafts we went through with the latest versions of the 52-10 and 52-16.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2015, 02:33:01 PM »



Why do I think NHQ will mandate pipeline recruiting?

We have no plans to do so.  As in "no plans whatsoever."  We have neither discussed such a thing, or suggested anything like that to the command group.

And if we should begin to consider mandating it, we would open a discussion with the field before taking any actions.  We have a pretty good track record of consulting with the line folks.  Look at all the drafts we went through with the latest versions of the 52-10 and 52-16.

Ned Lee
National Cadet Programs Officer


Does "No Plants whatsoever" work with a relatively strong push towards that anyway?


I'm not complaining, but I'm sure some who may not believe it to be a better way would see the "doom and gloom" based on how everything is being bunched up. You simply can't run a Cadet Great Start with trickle in. You'd need permanent staff doing it every week.
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lordmonar
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« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2015, 03:10:44 PM »

How could the force compliance? 
Also pipeline is not needed for small units.  A pipe line cohort of two seems kind of silly   
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
Pacific Region
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #6 on: February 19, 2015, 03:35:44 PM »

How could the force compliance? 


That can't possibly be a real question? IF they were to do it, either a "lock out" on applications until X-Y window, or simply looking at cadet sign up dates.


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Also pipeline is not needed for small units.  A pipe line cohort of two seems kind of silly



Agreed, but what the unit is doing now isn't helping either. Chances are, they aren't doing what they need to anyway.
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a2capt
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« Reply #7 on: February 19, 2015, 04:47:29 PM »

..and that means that each further promotion is also in that pipeline.

Sorry, no- I hate to turn away someone that's interested making it sound like we don't have time for them.

If this were compulsory service, that would be one thing. The way you get to the Yellow Footprints.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #8 on: February 19, 2015, 05:01:40 PM »

..and that means that each further promotion is also in that pipeline.

Sorry, no- I hate to turn away someone that's interested making it sound like we don't have time for them.

If this were compulsory service, that would be one thing. The way you get to the Yellow Footprints.


The whole point of pipelining is to show them the right amount of attention, and getting everything done. If they can't wait ~2 months, what are the odds they will stick around?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: February 19, 2015, 05:18:26 PM »

The way it's done by most units today, members wander in, wander around, have no place with a larger class, or for that matter "peers"
to judge themselves against or work together with, and then we wonder why there is such confusion as to how to run the program
and what new members need to do.

In a more perfect world, all new cadets (and preferably members) would be pipelined at the same time every year, probably corresponding with
either the end ot, or beginning of the "normal" school year (Spring / Fall).  That wold create a national "class" each year, and make progress or failure much easier to
track (including unit performance.

Further into that more perfect world, Curry Camps would be held for that class each year at the wing level for BCT in a standardized way.
No confusion over rules, regs, and policies when the wing is doing the training (at least it's consistent through out the wing).

Imagine how quickly home-grown nonsense would die if each year the new cadets are all trained the same way!

You could have one school for cadets, and one for seniors - perhaps a combo L1 / SLS weekend.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #10 on: February 19, 2015, 05:20:54 PM »

The way it's done by most units today, members wander in, wander around, have no place with a larger class, or for that matter "peers"
to judge themselves against or work together with, and then we wonder why there is such confusion as to how to run the program
and what new members need to do.

In a more perfect world, all new cadets (and preferably members) would be pipelined at the same time every year, probably corresponding with
either the end ot, or beginning of the "normal" school year (Spring / Fall).  That wold create a national "class" each year, and make progress or failure much easier to
track (including unit performance.

Further into that more perfect world, Curry Camps would be held for that class each year at the wing level for BCT in a standardized way.
No confusion over rules, regs, and policies when the wing is doing the training (at least it's consistent through out the wing).

Imagine how quickly home-grown nonsense would die if each year the new cadets are all trained the same way!

You could have one school for cadets, and one for seniors - perhaps a combo L1 / SLS weekend.


Stealing my plans and thunder!
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NIN
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« Reply #11 on: February 19, 2015, 05:23:37 PM »

You guys are 12-13 years late :)
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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I like to have Difficult Adult Conversations™
The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2015, 05:42:12 PM »

You guys are 12-13 years late :)

I was reluctant on the idea years back when you first started discussing it, but have come around since, however unfortunately
the comments against it are salient as well, and most units don't have the manpower to pipeline effectively.

Getting the organization to that point would be a multi-year process.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2015, 05:46:08 PM »

You guys are 12-13 years late :)

My vision is to do what eclipse detailed, on a group scale. Both, for cadets and SMs.
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1st Lt Thompson
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« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2015, 12:01:39 AM »

Tonight's meeting was cancelled due to weather, so our new R&R officer invited me over to dinner with him and his wife, and look over a 2 year recruiting plan he's working on to present to the commander. A few weeks back, I had discussed this concept with him, after reading some of NIN's comments on another thread, so we discussed a bit more in detail tonight.

One of his thoughts was: Can we come up with something for the trickle cadets while they're waiting for the next Great Start Flight to start up? His example was the Military. Obviously, Basic Training units are pipelined, but in the mean time, recruits are placed in the Delayed Entry Program. They attend monthly meetings where they do limited training and activities to keep them interested until Uncle Sam calls them up. With the trickle in Cadets, would it be advantageous to still bring them in, and have them observe meetings with limited participation until their Great Start Flight starts up?

We currently have a policy that new members attend 3 meetings before being given the application. Could we allow trickle members to observe 3 meetings, fill out their paperwork and join, so that they start their GSF as members with CAPID's? This would give the added benefit that they would start actual training as actual members, covered under Corporate Insurance should they injury themselves during training.

If we pipeline on a quarterly basis, this would give the GS Flight 2 months to earn Curry, and then a month to become acclimated into the regular flights. Also gives a month to do recruiting drives and open houses in support of the next GSF, and gives the cadets in charge of training a month off to focus on their own training and development.

For all of those in favor of pipelining, how would you present it to a Squadron for the first time?
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1st Lt Matt Thompson
Squadron Leadership Officer, Squadron Historian
UDF, GTM3, MSA, MS

Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 22 MAY 01 (#11401)
MIKE
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« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2015, 12:55:30 AM »

You can't have prospective cadets hanging around for months in some kind of "trial program non-member limbo."
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Mike Johnston
Eclipse
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« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2015, 12:57:39 AM »

The issue with what you're proposing it that it requires a completely separate cadet and senior staff to
pull off, and then the question will be raised as to why these cadets who are attending meetings can't
simply progress?  "I mean we're here, right?"

I say this because a unit doing the above would have the "normal" cadre - full on cadets engaged actively,
the Tango Flight - the slick sleeves finding their way, and both of those are already full time jobs. So now
you need additional personnel to herd the cats of "sorta" cadets.

If you're on a quarterly schedule, there won't be a lot of empty time anyway - the "three meetings"
take up the first month.  The waiting to be a member takes a few weeks, and in that third month
the new cadet can put together uniform parts, take care of the online setup, review the new cadet materials,
and generally prepare themselves for "reporting for basic". 

This also presupposes a full quarter, which won't always be the case, depending on when the initial contacts are made.

Now, in might be a good idea to have the Tango CF and Tango Senior(s) be points of contact for questions and
assistance in getting prepared, in the same way as a recruiter gets new recruits ready.

(also what Mike snuck in above while I was typing)
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1st Lt Thompson
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Unit: GLR-MI-063

« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2015, 01:46:41 AM »

You can't have prospective cadets hanging around for months in some kind of "trial program non-member limbo."

True, just trying to come up with a compromise before it gets presented at a meeting. Do you normally have cadets participate in their first 3 weeks, or sit and watch? If so, do you have them sit and watch for 3, give them the paperwork, then have them report on a certain day to their great start flight? That's kind of what I was getting at....either way they are a member when they actually start their training.
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1st Lt Matt Thompson
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Mitchell - 31 OCT 98 (#44670) Earhart - 22 MAY 01 (#11401)
NIN
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« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2015, 07:33:00 AM »

You guys are 12-13 years late :)

My vision is to do what eclipse detailed, on a group scale. Both, for cadets and SMs.

I've been mulling this over in my head since yesterday, so standby for more :)

Pipelining is something that works very well for units that do it and integrate it into their institutional fiber.  That said, there are some units that it really won't make sense for, and just like mandating that my unit do trickle-in, it may not make sense to have those units do pipelining.  There are a number of factors that go into whether a unit can pipeline successfully: schedule, location, available and willing members, etc.  I used to be quite the "everybody should do this, period!" kind of guy. Now? Not as much.

Frankly,  the largest barrier to implementing pipelining is personnel. And I don't mean number of personnel, or even qualifications. I mean the attitude of your personnel.

If implementing pipelining is such an obstacle and is met with resistance ("Why do we have to do this?" or "We don't have enough people to do this!") it will likely not gain traction over the traditional way of doing things and will fail quickly.  You will literally have people who cannot "get with the program," and part of running a unit with a solid pipelining method is that everybody understands the method and the situation, and even if they don't agree with it, will at least support it.   It takes 12 months to do pipelining correctly and get it integrated into the unit. 

I can tell you about all the units who started to try to replicate my unit's twice annual open house program and they'd say to me "It didn't work" after they did it once.

Come to find out, they weren't following all the steps or doing all the things they needed to do, they were just cherry picking. 

So they'd schedule an open house, but wouldn't bother to advertise it, or encourage people to attend.   

Or they'd go to all this trouble to setup grand displays or lay out their meeting location for an open house, and then they wouldn't have a program for the evening.  People would show up and they'd see a bunch of people standing around.   

I'd get these complaints from other commanders: "Nobody showed up." 

I'd say "did you contact the newspapers? Calendar item?  Maybe an article?"

"No." 

"Did you put something on your website or Facebook?"

"No."

"Did you print off 300 flyers and distribute them to your cadets to hand out?"

"No." 

"So how did you exactly expect people to know about your event?" 

"Well, we told the cadets to tell their friends."

Or they'd get a lot of people to show up, but nobody would join. Thats evidence that your advertising campaign is working, but what your unit is doing, the picture that you're showing prospective members at that event, is not compelling enough to make them want to join.

It took a long time for units in my wing to figure out that yes, we were not just going out and rounding up flocks of teenagers and putting them in BDUs, that we actually had a plan and a method to get them in the door, tell them about CAP, get them into the program in an organized way, etc.  AND, once we had them, had things for them to do and participate in.  And now, nearly every unit in the wing does 2x a year open houses (note: they are still not always effective, I'm finding)

A major paradigm shift (moving from a trickle-in model to a pipeline model qualifies) takes a lot of buy in and agreement from everybody, and you have to really go for it when you do it. You can't just do one tiny aspect of it and then give up immediately when you don't see the result or benefit.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2018 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Tim Day
Seasoned Member

Posts: 258
Unit: MER-VA-102

Prince William Composite Squadron
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2015, 09:20:03 AM »

We divide the Great Start curriculum into about 8 weeks, assign instructors, and run it in a continuous loop. If a cadet doesn't earn Curry within 8 weeks, they just roll into the next loop. It's a good, grade-appropriate training experience for our pre-Earhart cadet officers. If I had a small unit with no Earhart cadets, I would prefer to have a Great Start Flight Commander over having a Cadet Commander.

 
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Tim Day
Lt Col CAP
Prince William Composite Squadron Commander
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CAP Talk  |  Cadet Programs  |  Cadet Programs Management & Activities  |  Topic: Taking bets - When Will NHQ Make Pipelining Mandatory?
 


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