CAP Special Forces

[CAPSOC]

http://gocapsoc.weebly.com

[winterg]

There is nothing of any redeeming value in that site and it has every potential to do much more harm than good.  If it was an attempt at humor, I fail to see it.

[MSG Mac]

Please lock this site.

[Private Investigator]

How do I enroll in the Special Forces Speciality Track? I could not find the CAPP for it?   

[rustyjeeper]

How do I enroll in the Special Forces Speciality Track? I could not find the CAPP for it?   

I think you need to register on the other website first 

I took a look at it and found it to be funny. Some people here just take life to seriously

[Flying Pig]

Someone needs to get out of moms basement

[JeffDG]

Please lock this site.

By what authority?

Your only potential case could be trademark infringement, and the site is clearly 1st Amendment protected parody.

[Flying Pig]

Im thinking he meant the discussion. 

[Johnny Yuma]

I foresee Becky at Nhq typing up a Cease and Desist letter...

[Private Investigator]

How do I enroll in the Special Forces Speciality Track? I could not find the CAPP for it?   

I think you need to register on the other website first 

I took a look at it and found it to be funny. Some people here just take life to seriously

I agree. I thought it was funny and I am looking forward to their uniform threads.   

[JeffDG]

I foresee Becky at Nhq typing up a Cease and Desist letter...

And anyone with any legal background would tell her to go pound sand.

Seriously...parody is protected speech.  There is no intent to deceive here.

[rustyjeeper]

I know that I for one will enjoy seeing the development of another forum one which as others have mentioned very likely will have some "intense" 39-1 discussions and provide the latest updates on uniforms.

Possibly we will even see the development of a sleeker and more aerodynamic red triangle thingy  :clap:

[SarDragon]

This is the About Us link:

http://gocapsoc.weebly.com/about.html

The text:

About CAPSOCCAPSOC is a fictional branch of CAP that was most likely devised by someone who is a fan of the "You Know You're in CAP When..." Facebook page. The concept of CAP having a Special Operations branch gives some people a source of humor, and also annoys others. As you (hopefully) know any "special operations" branches of Civil Air Patrol are entirely fictional.

About This Website This website (gocapsoc.weebly.com) is not officially affiliated with any part of the Civil Air Patrol. The posts on this page are not official statements of any persons or entities and fall under the speech category of "Satire", which is protected under the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution. This website provides fictional articles and information designed to be humorous to CAP members. Some of you might be wondering if the creators behind all this are a bunch of low life scum who cause corruption within the cadet program, however that is not the case. Rest assured that we take CAP's core values, Oath, and missions seriously. We respect our leaders and do the best we can to influence others to take the program seriously. Well, maybe we don't display that on this website, but we certainly do in outside life

Somebody needs to lighten up.

[lordmonar]

Okay....satire is protected speech.

But "take down that site" is a legal order.  So the choice would be to take down the site or get 2b'ed.

[NIN]

Everybody knows there are CAP Special Ops units. Pffft.

http://122sos.freeservers.com/

Search is your friend.

http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=16183
http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=6698 (with photos!)

[James Shaw]

Maybe this is the NEW US Ranger Corps website.

[Alaric]

Please lock this thread, why give encouragement to this idiocy

[James Shaw]

Please lock this thread, why give encouragement to this idiocy

It had already begun. I received a couple of phone calls this morning about the CAPSOC name. CAPSOC is actually a real course for CAP. CAP Safety Officer College. Of course I did not help the idiocy as you pointed out by commenting earlier. 

[JeffDG]

Okay....satire is protected speech.

But "take down that site" is a legal order.  So the choice would be to take down the site or get 2b'ed.

Not from the referenced individual, who is not in the chain-of-command.  A C&D from anyone not in the chain of command would have precisely zero effect.

An appropriate response to such a letter would be "Thank you for your suggestion, but I think it's pretty clear there is no intent to deceive and I'll just keep it going."

[lordmonar]

Okay....satire is protected speech.

But "take down that site" is a legal order.  So the choice would be to take down the site or get 2b'ed.

Not from the referenced individual, who is not in the chain-of-command.  A C&D from anyone not in the chain of command would have precisely zero effect.

An appropriate response to such a letter would be "Thank you for your suggestion, but I think it's pretty clear there is no intent to deceive and I'll just keep it going."

No....not really.   The chain of command is not the only source of authority.   And if it were....the order would come from the National Commander....it may be written by the the legal officer....but like I said.    It is a legal order.  Intent is not a factor.

[JeffDG]

Okay....satire is protected speech.

But "take down that site" is a legal order.  So the choice would be to take down the site or get 2b'ed.

Not from the referenced individual, who is not in the chain-of-command.  A C&D from anyone not in the chain of command would have precisely zero effect.

An appropriate response to such a letter would be "Thank you for your suggestion, but I think it's pretty clear there is no intent to deceive and I'll just keep it going."

No....not really.   The chain of command is not the only source of authority.   And if it were....the order would come from the National Commander....it may be written by the the legal officer....but like I said.    It is a legal order.  Intent is not a factor.

In this case, the chain-of-command would be the only source of authority.  There is no lawful basis, other than CAP member's oath to obey orders, that could direct the individual behind this site to take it down.  As such, a C&D letter from CAP's legal folks would have zero legal weight, and the recipient of such a letter would be entirely justified in saying "Thanks for your helpful suggestion, but this satirical site will continue to operate."

Such a refusal to follow the C&D letter would not constitute a failure to follow a lawful order.  Staff officers and other employees cannot issue lawful orders.  They can recommend to their commanders, but their actions themselves do not constitute lawful orders.

Additionally, I would suggest the person publish such a C&D letter to take full benefit of the Streisand Effect (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect) to drive traffic to his/her site.

I love how an organization which espouses a Core Value of Respect sees satire and their first reaction is to attempt to censor it.

[lordmonar]

a) I'm not say NHQ should send a C&D order.
b) You are mistaken about the legal officer's authority to make a legal order to a member of CAP about their online activities.
c) Respect is a two way street.   Satire is all well and good....but if....IF....a member conducts him/herself in a manner that brings discredit to the CAP....then they are in violation of a lot of regulations, our core values, and go leadership.
d) Even if this site remained up and CAP decided to ignore it.   Individual ramifications for the members involved could still happen.   Such as the suitability for leadership positions, promotions, or awards and decoration.
e) Cadets could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 Para 3.b.(1), 3.b.(2), 3.b.(4), 3.b.(5).  Seniors could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 para 4.b.(2), 4.b.(, 4.b.(9), 4.b.(10) and 4.b.(11).

So...like I said....an individual is free to do what ever they heck they want to.....but a CAP member is NOT.   If....IF the members were ordered to take down the site and the failed to follow that legal order then they would be subject to discipline.

[JeffDG]

So...like I said....an individual is free to do what ever they heck they want to.....but a CAP member is NOT.   If....IF the members were ordered to take down the site and the failed to follow that legal order then they would be subject to discipline.

If the members are identified (I certainly think C/Col Doe will be difficult to identify), and given an order by someone in the chain-of-command, then they either follow that order or face disciplinary action.

A C&D letter from a lawyer is not a lawful order.

A C&D letter from a lawyer will bring more disrepute upon CAP than this site ever will.

[lordmonar]

A C&D letter from a lawyer is not a lawful order.

A C&D ORDER from the National Legal OFFICER is very much a lawful order.

A C&D letter from a lawyer will bring more disrepute upon CAP than this site ever will.

Maybe.  But that would be NHQ's call.  Not yours and not mine.

[JeffDG]

e) Cadets could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 Para 3.b.(1), 3.b.(2), 3.b.(4), 3.b.(5).  Seniors could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 para 4.b.(2), 4.b.(, 4.b.(9), 4.b.(10) and 4.b.(11).

Let's look at those.

3b1/4b2:  Conduct unbecoming a member of CAP...tough case to make that making a satirical site is conduct unbecoming.  Perhaps the admins of CAPTALK are also subject to this.

3b2:  What false statements?

The posts on this page are not official statements of any persons or entities and fall under the speech category of "Satire", which is protected under the 1st Amendment of the United States Constitution. This website provides fictional articles and information designed to be humorous to CAP members.

Accusing people of making false statements, calling them in effect, liars, is a serious charge, and I hope you can back it up.

3b4/4b9:  Serious wilfull violations of cap regulations or directives?  Which ones?  Again, a very serious charge that I'm certain you wouldn't make without some kind of evidence.

3b5:  You have evidence of a lawful order being disregarded?

4b8:  Substandard performance of duty...in order to say that, then this site would be the member's duty?  Seriously?

You've levied some serious charges, I presume that you would not do so without evidence, and I've not seen this evidence yet.  Perhaps you'd like to share.

[JeffDG]

A C&D letter from a lawyer is not a lawful order.

A C&D ORDER from the National Legal OFFICER is very much a lawful order.

It is not.  It's a suggestion.  Unless it comes from the chain of command, it's not a lawful order, and you cannot be considered insubordinate for politely declining the suggestion.

A C&D letter from a lawyer will bring more disrepute upon CAP than this site ever will.

Maybe.  But that would be NHQ's call.  Not yours and not mine.

[lordmonar]

First off I am not making any accusations....I'm simply mentoring CAP members on lines of authority and consequences of actions.

Having said that.

The evidence is right there in their site.
They say it is fictional.  They say it is satire.

Ergo....they are making false statements.  Just because it is all in fun....in not factor.

If the powers that be determined that the site was bringing discredit on to CAP...then they are perfectly within their DUTY to get the site shut down.

"Shut down the site" is a legal order.  It does not violate any law.  Failure to follow that order could result in termination.

Again...."chain of command" is NOT the only source of authority in CAP.   

The Legal Officer can issue orders....and failing to follow them can result in termination.

[JeffDG]

The evidence is right there in their site.
They say it is fictional.  They say it is satire.

Ergo....they are making false statements.  Just because it is all in fun....in not factor.

So, you'll be recommending a 2B for Dale Brown then.  He's a novellist, a CAP member, and has included CAP in some of his novels, ergo he's made "false statements" about CAP.

"False statements" doesn't mean what you think it means.  It means false statements that intended to be taken as truth, which these are explicitly not.  Your meaning is a complete and utter absurdity.

And you're wrong.  Lawful orders, for the purposes of insubordination, do need to come from the chain of command.  Staff officers advise.  They do not command.

[NIN]

Patrick, this one time, I really think you're off base on this one.

(I'm not saying I think that this site is a good idea...)

[lordmonar]

Okay.

Bottom line.

CAP could.....could....if they felt like it issue an order to these member to shut down the site.
If they failed to do so, they could be 2b.

That's the BLUF.

Should they?  Don't know, don't care.

[Alaric]

Why is this thread still open?

[Fubar]

Because it could turn into a uniform thread at a moment's notice.

[blackrain]

And there's still a debate to be had on whether or not they carry airsoft weapons during their operations. I mean train like you fight...right?

[Private Investigator]

So is the beret thing in or out for the CAP SF? I suggested green since blue has already been taken. 

[James Shaw]

So is the beret thing in or out for the CAP SF? I suggested green since blue has already been taken. 

Since their fictional, maybe we treat it like "Emporers New Clothes", and have their HQ at Area 51.

[raivo]

I'd probably start seriously questioning how badly I wanted to remain part of an organization that felt the need to crack down on teenagers trying to be funny (in, as best I can tell, a good-natured and non-offensive manner) and it's a little upsetting to see how many people support the idea of sending legal notices and terminating memberships over it.

While we're at it, we should probably also discipline everyone on active duty who contributes to the Duffel Blog.

[lordmonar]

I'd probably start seriously questioning how badly I wanted to remain part of an organization that felt the need to crack down on teenagers trying to be funny (in, as best I can tell, a good-natured and non-offensive manner) and it's a little upsetting to see how many people support the idea of sending legal notices and terminating memberships over it.

While we're at it, we should probably also discipline everyone on active duty who contributes to the Duffel Blog.

You have missed the point.   
Some one mentioned sending a C&D letter....and the rebuttal was that it was protected speech.
I then pointed out that CAP and CAP members don't have protected speech....just like AD military members.

I for one never said NHQ should crack down on them.....just that they could.

Also as an exercise in leadership......where does the line between "goon natured and non-offensive" and Insubordinate and Disrespectful exist? 

Where does having a good time at the expanse of CAP, PAWG, Hawk Mountain cross over into bringing discredit or defamation to the organization?

[raivo]

I'm not disagreeing, lordmonar, they certainly can - I was speaking more to the question of whether they should.

As far as the leadership question, I'm not a fan of drawing increasingly fine black-and-white lines in the sand to try and reduce every such question to a matter of what the "letter of law" says. If you end up having to make that decision, look at the facts, and pick your course of action. And, as a leader, be prepared for others to disagree with you - and if they're in a position to do so, find someone to replace you.

[rustyjeeper]

a) I'm not say NHQ should send a C&D order.
b) You are mistaken about the legal officer's authority to make a legal order to a member of CAP about their online activities.
c) Respect is a two way street.   Satire is all well and good....but if....IF....a member conducts him/herself in a manner that brings discredit to the CAP....then they are in violation of a lot of regulations, our core values, and go leadership.
d) Even if this site remained up and CAP decided to ignore it.   Individual ramifications for the members involved could still happen.   Such as the suitability for leadership positions, promotions, or awards and decoration.
e) Cadets could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 Para 3.b.(1), 3.b.(2), 3.b.(4), 3.b.(5).  Seniors could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 para 4.b.(2), 4.b.(, 4.b.(9), 4.b.(10) and 4.b.(11).

So...like I said....an individual is free to do what ever they heck they want to.....but a CAP member is NOT.   If....IF the members were ordered to take down the site and the failed to follow that legal order then they would be subject to discipline.

As an EX MEMBER of CAP the aforementioned individuals may feel free to contact me by PM and I would be most happy to take over the website as a satirical endeavor as a NON- Member there would be no "ramifications" possible in that case 

[Private Investigator]

So is the beret thing in or out for the CAP SF? I suggested green since blue has already been taken. 

Since their fictional, maybe we treat it like "Emporers New Clothes", and have their HQ at Area 51.

So we will have the first ever, "fictional uniform thread"? That is legendary   

[Private Investigator]

a) I'm not say NHQ should send a C&D order.
b) You are mistaken about the legal officer's authority to make a legal order to a member of CAP about their online activities.
c) Respect is a two way street.   Satire is all well and good....but if....IF....a member conducts him/herself in a manner that brings discredit to the CAP....then they are in violation of a lot of regulations, our core values, and go leadership.
d) Even if this site remained up and CAP decided to ignore it.   Individual ramifications for the members involved could still happen.   Such as the suitability for leadership positions, promotions, or awards and decoration.
e) Cadets could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 Para 3.b.(1), 3.b.(2), 3.b.(4), 3.b.(5).  Seniors could be terminated under CAPR 35-3 para 4.b.(2), 4.b.(, 4.b.(9), 4.b.(10) and 4.b.(11).

So...like I said....an individual is free to do what ever they heck they want to.....but a CAP member is NOT.   If....IF the members were ordered to take down the site and the failed to follow that legal order then they would be subject to discipline.

As an EX MEMBER of CAP the aforementioned individuals may feel free to contact me by PM and I would be most happy to take over the website as a satirical endeavor as a NON- Member there would be no "ramifications" possible in that case 

I would second that motion.

On a sidebar; Would the CAP SF SAR Team be identified by a 'blaze orange beret', even if they are not from PAWG?   

[jeders]

So we will have the first ever, "fictional uniform thread"?

Wouldn't that have been every thread involving CAP getting ABUs?

[Al Sayre]

Ok, so:

NHQ has 2 options: 1. Ignore the site.  2. Send a C&D letter
If option 1 then end

If option 2 then Site owner has 2 options: 1. Remove the site  2. Ignore the letter.
If option 1 then end

If option 2, then NHQ has 2 options: 1. Let the matter drop  2. 2b the owner (if they can find him)
If option 1 then end

If option 2, then NHQ has no power or recourse but to let the matter drop as the former member can ignore them completely or put up a rant filled site full of satirical accusations - end 

Therefore, the best option is for NHQ to ignore the site.

[Eclipse]

Therefore, the best option is for NHQ to ignore the site.

Which is what everyone else should have done as well.

Troll Accomplished.

[CAPSOC]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the support. We'll try to post articles and new content as much as we can. Check out the new articles we posted at this link:
http://gocapsoc.weebly.com/news

[raivo]

H'oh boy.

[PA Guy]

What a gaggle of barracks room lawyers. I think the site is silly beyond belief  but I can't get too spun up about it. It  is just someone's attempt at humor. There are more important things to worry about.

[PHall]

What a gaggle of barracks room lawyers. I think the site is silly beyond belief  but I can't get too spun up about it. It  is just someone's attempt at humor. There are more important things to worry about.

Like being "Safety Current"? 

[Eclipse]

Hi everyone, thanks for all the support. We'll try to post articles and new content as much as we can. Check out the new articles we posted at this link:
http://gocapsoc.weebly.com/news

Don't bother - it isn't even a little funny, you're wasting your time.

[Flying Pig]

Your mom is calling... dinner is ready

[NIN]

Your mom is calling... dinner is ready

Plus, the whole thing was done 10+ years ago.

[Eclipse]

Your mom is calling... dinner is ready

Plus, the whole thing was done 10+ years ago.

Yep.

This one is a lot funnier, too: http://www.reformthecap.eu/capsoc

[AirAux]

I don't know about you guys, but I want that CAPSOC guy to come set up our Squadron Website...

[Eclipse]

I don't know about you guys, but I want that CAPSOC guy to come set up our Squadron Website...

It's Weebly - home of all the latest cutting edge PTA, Condo Association, and Sewing Circle Websites.

Weebly, when you absolutely, positively need to lose your credibility overnight!

[rustyjeeper]

I don't know about you guys, but I want that CAPSOC guy to come set up our Squadron Website...

It's Weebly - home of all the latest cutting edge PTA, Condo Association, and Sewing Circle Websites.

Weebly, when you absolutely, positively need to lose your credibility overnight!

VERY TRUE STATEMENT-
Weebly is not the most professional thing out there. But this is humor and I dont think the poster made any real effort to deceive anyone and has said all along its satirical.   
People here sure have gotten worked up over it though and honestly it is better than some WING pages and many many unit websites- do you disagree?

[AlphaSigOU]

"I wanna be a CAPSOC Ranger... I wanna live a life of danger..."

[RRLE]

"I wanna be a CAPSOC Ranger... I wanna live a life of danger..."

Then you should be a Secret Agent Man.

[raivo]

Hey, be nice. The guy who founded Weebly is a friend of mine.

[usafcap1]

Is this another CAP SOS. http://122sos.freeservers.com

[Huey Driver]

Is this another CAP SOS. http://122sos.freeservers.com

From way back when...

[AirAux]

This appears to be satire and the only way to handle it is with AK-47's as was done in Paris..

[Garibaldi]

This appears to be satire and the only way to handle it is with AK-47's as was done in Paris..

Dude....come on.

[AirAux]

Dude, you better lighten up.  This is a reality coming soon to a neighborhood near you.  Political Correctness be darned.  Further, the slain would have appreciated it, it was their forte.

[Garibaldi]

Dude, you better lighten up.  This is a reality coming soon to a neighborhood near you.  Political Correctness be darned.  Further, the slain would have appreciated it, it was their forte.

You...really are serious, aren't you? Saying the website needs to be handled by thugs with automatic weapons?   

[Eclipse]

Ron Burgundy - That Escalated Quickly

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I cannot believe I am actually reading a CAP member advocate violence against something that is just a bad joke.

[JeffDG]

I cannot believe I am actually reading a CAP member advocate violence against something that is just a bad joke.

I cannot actually believe that anyone took that literally.

[LSThiker]

This appears to be satire and the only way to handle it is with AK-47's as was done in Paris..

Please tell me this was sarcasm?  That is that we need to be careful on how we treat satire websites so we do not end up being as rigid as those in the Paris attack?

[jeders]

I cannot believe I am actually reading a CAP member advocate violence against something that is just a bad joke.

I cannot actually believe that anyone took that literally.

Neither can I, however...

This appears to be satire and the only way to handle it is with AK-47's as was done in Paris..

Too soon.

[BHartman007]

This thread has become a special kind of stupid.

[EMT-83]

This thread has become a special kind of stupid.

No, that's how it started.

[AirAux]

The whole point of this thread was about sarcasm and satire.  Several barside lawyers proposed that National send a cease and desist order immediately.  In a sarcastic moment, I suggested off with their heads.  Looks like most of you are wound a little tight.  Unpucker your fourth point of contact.  I fear for this country and the seriousness/political correctness that abounds.  If the Cadets want to have fun and are creative enough to design this stuff, more power to them.  Back in our day we did things like the Harvard Lampoon...   

[Eclipse]

Or you could just admit you said something off the cuff that was stupid and insensitive instead of trying to
to hide behind some false indignation about parody and sarcasm.

[THRAWN]

The whole point of this thread was about sarcasm and satire.  Several barside lawyers proposed that National send a cease and desist order immediately.  In a sarcastic moment, I suggested off with their heads.  Looks like most of you are wound a little tight.  Unpucker your fourth point of contact.  I fear for this country and the seriousness/political correctness that abounds.  If the Cadets want to have fun and are creative enough to design this stuff, more power to them.  Back in our day we did things like the Harvard Lampoon...

Harvard Lampoon didn't advocate executions. You stepped on your lip. Say mea culpa and move on.

[AirAux]

And from the above two comments, I rest my case. 

[JC004]