New ribbon ideas?

[LSThiker]

GCM was more an award for not having been caught ...

Is that how you got yours? I actually earned mine.

It really is a command decision thing.  I have met Soldiers that got their GCM when they had a few Article 15s in those same 3 years.  I have met a young enlisted Soldier that pissed hot, got retained, and still had the GCM. 

If a Service Member is proud of their GCM, I won't belittle it, but I do look at the medal as a "meh" medal.

However, I find it interesting the GCM is for enlisted only while the ARCAM is for enlisted, warrant, and commissioned officers. 

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

At least it does not take very long to get the various GCM's in the U.S. military...

Canada's equivalent, the Canadian Forces Decoration (all ranks, all services, active and reservists), takes 12 years to get.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Forces_Decoration

The British equivalent, the Long Service and Good Conduct Medal, takes 15 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Service_and_Good_Conduct_Medal

They're a little easier on their Reservists...only 10 years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volunteer_Reserves_Service_Medal

Imagine CAP trying to adopt those criteria.

[lordmonar]

CAP does not need a Good Conduct Medal....because we can quit at any time.

Even in an all volunteer force you got to stick it out and finish your enlistment before you can quit (and sometimes even then you can't get out.....Stop Loss anyone).   

So an award for sticking with it and staying out of trouble (more or less) is not really a bad idea.
We also have to remember....even though we are currently an all volunteer force....we still have provisions for a draft....and again...an award for those who submit to the draft and stick out their terms is not a bad idea.

But in CAP....I don't see the need for a CGM.   We got the Red Service Ribbon (which aught to be renamed the longevity ribbon). 

[kwe1009]

Good Conduct: The AF has the Good Conduct ribbon. It would make sense that their "Auxiliary" would have it to. I won't lie I have heard that the AF was going to do away with it, but I yet to see that.

The Air Force did do away with the GCM for a number of years but brought it back recently. 

I don't really agree with having this medal as it is an award for not getting in TOO much trouble.  I don't think this medal motivates anyone to stay out of trouble.  I don't see the need for it in CAP either.  I don't believe you should get a medal for not screwing up.  You should get medals for doing something exceptional.

The Air Force Good Conduct Medal is only awarded to Active Duty and Guard/Reserve Enlisted personnel on Extended Active Duty.
Guard and Reserve Enlisted personnel on "normal" drill status get the Air Reserve Forces Meritorius Service Medal instead.
Officers are not eligible for either award.

That is true and I don't see the need for either in the USAF or CAP.

Did you ever receive one? I have.  The majority of the people I've dealt with who saw no need for it never got one...

Just sayin...

I have 5 of them.  I don't agree with the medal because it an award for doing something that you are supposed to do and that is do your job and stay out of trouble.  I have never ran into any Air Force people that bragged or showed pride in getting the AFGCM.  Not saying there aren't any, just that I haven't seen them.  I understand that the medal may be difficult in some other services but I haven't even heard of any Air Force people not getting it even after Article 15's.  I knew someone that lost a stripe and still got the AFGCM.  To me it is on the same level as my Korean Defense Service Medal.  I didn't do anything to earn that either except go to Korea.

It is like Little League.  Everyone gets a trophy.  I'm not a fan of participation medals or ribbons.  They really don't serve a purpose.  I can understand a participation ribbon to some degree but it can be a little out of hand as well.  If you are going to have a medal then it should be for something more than just staying out of trouble. 

[MHC5096]

My experience was clearly different from yours. In both the Air National Guard and Air Force Reserve, I used to review the list for the Air Reserve Forces Meritorious Service Medal with my unit commanders. The most common reason for denying the ARFMSM aside from conduct issues was bad drill years during the award period. In the units I was in we made a big deal of the ARFMSM, making the award presentations formal. But then again, many of us in leadership roles were prior USN/USMC where the GCM is taken seriously, to the point where the lack of the award at any point can be a career killer.

[PHall]

Good Conduct: The AF has the Good Conduct ribbon. It would make sense that their "Auxiliary" would have it to. I won't lie I have heard that the AF was going to do away with it, but I yet to see that.

The Air Force did do away with the GCM for a number of years but brought it back recently. 

I don't really agree with having this medal as it is an award for not getting in TOO much trouble.  I don't think this medal motivates anyone to stay out of trouble.  I don't see the need for it in CAP either.  I don't believe you should get a medal for not screwing up.  You should get medals for doing something exceptional.

The Air Force Good Conduct Medal is only awarded to Active Duty and Guard/Reserve Enlisted personnel on Extended Active Duty.
Guard and Reserve Enlisted personnel on "normal" drill status get the Air Reserve Forces Meritorius Service Medal instead.
Officers are not eligible for either award.

That is true and I don't see the need for either in the USAF or CAP.

Did you ever receive one? I have.  The majority of the people I've dealt with who saw no need for it never got one...

Just sayin...

I have 5 of them.  I don't agree with the medal because it an award for doing something that you are supposed to do and that is do your job and stay out of trouble.  I have never ran into any Air Force people that bragged or showed pride in getting the AFGCM.  Not saying there aren't any, just that I haven't seen them.  I understand that the medal may be difficult in some other services but I haven't even heard of any Air Force people not getting it even after Article 15's.  I knew someone that lost a stripe and still got the AFGCM.  To me it is on the same level as my Korean Defense Service Medal.  I didn't do anything to earn that either except go to Korea.

It is like Little League.  Everyone gets a trophy.  I'm not a fan of participation medals or ribbons.  They really don't serve a purpose.  I can understand a participation ribbon to some degree but it can be a little out of hand as well.  If you are going to have a medal then it should be for something more than just staying out of trouble.

Maybe it was a little different in SAC. My squadron commanders actually reviewed the roster and if you had a UIF, no medal for you.
If you got a Letter of Repremand or an Article 15, you had a UIF.
Sounds like your commanders didn't give a crap and just signed off on it.

[Майор Хаткевич]

CAP does not need a Good Conduct Medal....because we can quit at any time.

Even in an all volunteer force you got to stick it out and finish your enlistment before you can quit (and sometimes even then you can't get out.....Stop Loss anyone).   

So an award for sticking with it and staying out of trouble (more or less) is not really a bad idea.
We also have to remember....even though we are currently an all volunteer force....we still have provisions for a draft....and again...an award for those who submit to the draft and stick out their terms is not a bad idea.

But in CAP....I don't see the need for a CGM.   We got the Red Service Ribbon (which aught to be renamed the longevity ribbon).

Good point on the selective service. I've got just shy of 13 months until mine runs out at 26. Of course if shtf, only 28% qualify  under current standards..

[Flying Pig]

Continued membership in CAP in itself would imply you are conducting yourself appropriately.  Whereas the military, you can be punished, charged, fined, confined to quarters or even the brig and still stay in and finish out your service.

[ZigZag911]

CAP does not need a GCM...absolutely no point to it. We have the Red Service, which is basically our version of "I've stayed out of trouble for two years",  and various other forms of recognizing individual and unit service (CCA, Achievement, MSA etc)...use these to recognize those who make noteworthy contributions.

[Private Investigator]

GCM was more an award for not having been caught ...

Is that how you got yours? I actually earned mine.

+1

Veterans should look at the whole picture. Depending on when you enlisted you could have been on active duty for six years and the only thing you got was a GCM. Now we know the majority of people, at least the ones in CAP, love the bling bling. Different strokes for different folks .. 

[kwe1009]

I have 5 of them.  I don't agree with the medal because it an award for doing something that you are supposed to do and that is do your job and stay out of trouble.  I have never ran into any Air Force people that bragged or showed pride in getting the AFGCM.  Not saying there aren't any, just that I haven't seen them.  I understand that the medal may be difficult in some other services but I haven't even heard of any Air Force people not getting it even after Article 15's.  I knew someone that lost a stripe and still got the AFGCM.  To me it is on the same level as my Korean Defense Service Medal.  I didn't do anything to earn that either except go to Korea.

It is like Little League.  Everyone gets a trophy.  I'm not a fan of participation medals or ribbons.  They really don't serve a purpose.  I can understand a participation ribbon to some degree but it can be a little out of hand as well.  If you are going to have a medal then it should be for something more than just staying out of trouble.

Maybe it was a little different in SAC. My squadron commanders actually reviewed the roster and if you had a UIF, no medal for you.
If you got a Letter of Repremand or an Article 15, you had a UIF.
Sounds like your commanders didn't give a crap and just signed off on it.
[/quote]

By regs a UIF can be removed after 1 year so by the time the list came down for the GCM the UIF could be gone and a new commander with no knowledge of the UIF in place so the GCM gets approved.

And that is a problem with nearly all military awards and decorations, over inflation.  For example during Desert Storm I saw very few people getting even an Achievement Medal but a few years after Enduring Freedom started now there are tons of Bronze Stars being handed out like candy.  There are troops that never even heard gun fire that have one or more BSMs while there are others that risked their lives almost daily just a few years earlier that didn't get anything.  That is the way the system works unfortunately.

Even if the standard for the GCM was followed equally I still don't agree with it.  It is still a medal for just doing your job.  I feel the same way about "mid-tour and end of tour" medals as well as medals for deployments.  You should have to do something above and beyond the call of duty to earn any medal.  Just being "present" and doing your job properly is not is worth nothing more than a a pat on the back.  It is what you are being paid to do.

I did some research on the GCM back when the Air Force got rid of it and what I found out was that it was created as a tool to try and keep the enlisted troops in line and out of trouble.  That is why it is only for enlisted.  At a time when enlisted were mostly uneducated and tended to be unruly this medal was seen as a way to reward those that stayed out of trouble and also to hopefully encourage others to stay out if trouble to earn the medal.

[lordmonar]

I don't know.....I saw a lot of medals being awarded for Desert Storm.    I served from 1986 to 2008......it seemed to me that the amount and types of medals awards seemed pretty consistent in a macro sense....at least in the USAF.

I never try to compare on service with the other.....because....they are different.

I do agree that the GCM was awarded to people who....probably should not have gotten it.....but that also goes for just about every award at a micro level.

[James Shaw]

Veterans should look at the whole picture. Depending on when you enlisted you could have been on active duty for six years and the only thing you got was a GCM. Now we know the majority of people, at least the ones in CAP, love the bling bling. Different strokes for different folks .. 

Isn't there a song about that...

Because it s all about the bling, about the bling, more medals. its all about the bling about the bling more medals. 

[LSThiker]

And that is a problem with nearly all military awards and decorations, over inflation.  For example during Desert Storm I saw very few people getting even an Achievement Medal but a few years after Enduring Freedom started now there are tons of Bronze Stars being handed out like candy.  There are troops that never even heard gun fire that have one or more BSMs while there are others that risked their lives almost daily just a few years earlier that didn't get anything.  That is the way the system works unfortunately.

I think people are bias on this.  The Army has been tracking the number of awards given out since 1800s:

https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Awards%20and%20Decorations%20Statistics%20by%20Conflict

There were 27,076 BSMs (A/S) for the Gulf War, while there 65,125 BSMs (A/S) for OEF and 99,886 BSM (A/S) for OIF.  Considering that Desert Storm was from August 1990 to February 1991 and OIF and OEF were 8 years 8 months and 13 years and 3 months + respectively, it starts to make sense.  So OIF averaged about 11,400 BSMs a year, OEF averaged 4915 a year, and Gulf War was 27,000 BSMs for a 0.5 year. 

[Flying Pig]

Id be interested to see how many had "V" devices vs being the BSM awarded for meritorious service since they are essentially two different awards.

[LSThiker]

Id be interested to see how many had "V" devices vs being the BSM awarded for meritorious service since they are essentially two different awards.

Click the link. They are broken out to BSM (a/s) and BSM with Valor

[LSThiker]

So I do apologize in using a term that not every one is familiar with.  (A/S) stands for achievement/service.

To answer the question:

BSMs/V:

Gulf War:  891
OEF:  2036
OIF:  2,459

ARCOM/V:
Gulf War:  976
OEF:  3,340
OIF:  5,062

Oops.  Wrong column.  Corrected the numbers

[flyboy53]

So I do apologize in using a term that not every one is familiar with.  (A/S) stands for achievement/service.

To answer the question:

BSMs/V:

Gulf War:  891
OEF:  2036
OIF:  2,459

ARCOM/V:
Gulf War:  976
OEF:  3,340
OIF:  5,062

Oops.  Wrong column.  Corrected the numbers

Just a fine point to your post, please remember that the first Gulf War or Desert Storm consisted of three campaigns: Operations DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM, and DESERT CALM taking place during the period 2 Aug 90 through 30 Nov 95. Somewhere in the process there was an Operation DESERT SWORD (which I only remember from seeing documents related to it during that war) and DESERT FAREWELL which was supposed to be the redeployment back to the U.S. but some units were actually diverted to Africa for humanitarian missions.

The thing about the first Gulf War in contrast to today's conflict is that we admittedly have gone overboard with medals, and ribbons. I once had a CENTAF guide to awards and decorations and was surprised to note what was considered appropriate recognition for Gulf War service. Veterans of that era are considered Gulf War veterans even if they didn't serve there (which is the same classification by the VA). But it also means that someone serving in the TO could earn as much as five to six different service and foreign awards just for being there, depending on the service, while direct support personnel (such as I was -- as reflected by the entry in the remarks section of my DD Form 214) could earn an AF Overseas Long or Short Tour ribbon outside the TO because it related to the war.

When I retired from the AF in 1994, I thought I had done pretty well with five rows of decorations and awards, then I met a senior airman with six years service who eclipsed me with seven rows of ribbons -- the highest being and the AFAM and all valid because they reflected deployments to Bosnia and other places. Humbling -- but it also means that there is greater attention to recognizing the accomplishments of subordinates but, in my opinion, to the extreme.

The thing is, there is just as much an element of choice in awards and decorations as there is the intent to recognize and it is amazing to see what really counts. Recently I requested copies of my military records. Certainly there were DD Form 214s and a records RIP showing everything, but what surprised me was the permanent copies and orders for every decoration and the documentation verifying entitlement to my Humanitarian Service Medal -- which is a campaign medal by DoD standards.

Through this whole string, we have debated eliminating various awards, combining others, and creating new. I think it would be really exciting if Ma AF would allow CAP to strive to achieve the various civilian awards -- but at the core of the issue, we can decide as members whether we really want to wear all that bling or chose to consolidate things on our uniforms by choice.

[LSThiker]

Just a fine point to your post, please remember that the first Gulf War or Desert Storm consisted of three campaigns: Operations DESERT SHIELD, DESERT STORM, and DESERT CALM taking place during the period 2 Aug 90 through 30 Nov 95. Somewhere in the process there was an Operation DESERT SWORD (which I only remember from seeing documents related to it during that war) and DESERT FAREWELL which was supposed to be the redeployment back to the U.S. but some units were actually diverted to Africa for humanitarian missions.

Operation DESERT SABRE (first to be called DESERT SWORD) was part of Operation DESERT STORM.  It lasted 24-28 February 1991 and was never really a separate phase from Operation DESERT STORM.  Operation DESERT CALM and DESERT FAREWELL were the same thing.  Then we also started Operation PROVIDE COMFORT and Operation PROVIDE COMFORT II from 1991 to 1996.

However, since BSMs /V and ARCOMs /V were Army combat related awards, remember the ground war was only 4 days long (24-28 February 1991 (Operation DESERT SABRE), it is safe to assume that the vast majority of these valor awards were awarded during a 0.5 years span.  Regardless of what time period we pick for the Gulf War, the assertion that we have began handing out BSMs like candy is simply unfounded when considering that ground operations for OIF and OEF have been much longer than Desert Storm timeline.  I agree that some BSMs have been handed out on rather low standards (i.e. I processed a BSM for a pharmacist that only did his job, but because he was an O-4 he was "entitled" to a BSM).  Over all, the rates is roughly the same.

Now I am against handing out End of Tour awards for operations since that is what the campaign medals are for.  Each person in my company had to have an ARCOM or higher and those that were given AAMs had to be "justified" (basically you had to demonstrate how they screwed up). 

[Flying Pig]

So I do apologize in using a term that not every one is familiar with.  (A/S) stands for achievement/service.

To answer the question:

BSMs/V:

Gulf War:  891
OEF:  2036
OIF:  2,459

ARCOM/V:
Gulf War:  976
OEF:  3,340
OIF:  5,062

Oops.  Wrong column.  Corrected the numbers

Ahhhh OK I didnt know what A/S meant.  Got it, thanks