drivel... was: Navy Awards on Cap Uniform

[Eclipse]

...how about we all comply with current standards?

Who's "we"?

Look at the Flicker Pool from the last National Boards and see who is complying.

The regs don't say "close" or "As long as you look 'OK", a concept clearly being misinterpreted by a lot of people
with highly visible situations, not to mention the people who are not even close.  For better or worse,
the drape cut of the USAF-style jacket is so unforgiving that you can spot someone pushing the tables
from 50k feet.

Yes.  People can see it.

No.  You are not fooling anyone.

Until >that< situation is remedied, the rank and file have every right to whine and complain.

[Alaric]

All well and good, but a bit oversimplified.

As I said, I, and I suspect a good many others, would very much like to meet the Air Force's standards.

However, in my case, and, again, many others, we have physical disabilities (such as thyroid problems and other problems that render us unable to vigorously exercise) or are on medications that we have to have.  I could quit taking my medications, and within probably a few months the extra pounds would drop off.  However, my wife would probably be burying me before that.

When I have worn the blue uniform (and I got married in it), I have worn it exactly to specifications: always cleaned, pressed, ribbons cleaned, shoes shined, etc.  I had long hair and a beard when I joined CAP.  I got a military haircut and shaved my beard.

I can feel safe in saying that if you, a USAF officer, would have inspected me in the blue uniform, you would have found nothing out of place.  I doubt a Blue Rope MTI could have.  That sounds egotistical, but it is true.

Once when I was wearing the blue uniform, a CMSgt noticed that my nameplate was very, very slightly off kilter and asked me for permission to adjust, which I of course gave.  I then asked him if anything else needed attention, and he said "no, you're fine."  I would think if I were wearing the uniform improperly, he would have noticed.

What my problem is, is that I (and others with medical conditions) am being penalised for something I have no control over (and I have talked to my doctor about it).  I believe there is a difference between cases I have cited and those who CHOOSE to be couch potatoes, eat too many Big Macs, etc.  The Air Force appears unwilling or unable to take that into account.  The Air Force has every right to tell Active, Reserve and Guard personnel to "get fit or get out," but I would lay very good odds that these Airmen do not have medical conditions such as I and many other CAP colleagues have.  If they did, they would be DQ'd from service to begin with or be hiding it at the risk of being caught out and kicked out for Fraudulent Enlistment.

If the AF would stop us from wearing THEIR uniform (and I am aware it is THEIR uniform; I was in the ANG), I would not necessarily be opposed...as long as we would not default to the status quo "corporates."  My big problem with those is that they are colourless, have nothing to do with our heritage and nothing identifiable with aviation of any kind.

Nonetheless, despite the fact that I do not like the uniform, I wear the G/W as prescribed - cleaned, pressed, badging in the right places, etc.

There is a lot of talk about our heritage, since our heritage is Army Khaki (as there was no blue AF uniform when we were founded), I don't see an issue with going away from the blues and coming up with a uniform that everyone can wear.  If you don't like the grey and white, come up with another suggestion, but we should have one uniform per function (flight suit, field, dress/office)

[Storm Chaser]

...how about we all comply with current standards?

Who's "we"?

Look at the Flicker Pool from the last National Boards and see who is complying.

The regs don't say "close" or "As long as you look 'OK", a concept clearly being misinterpreted by a lot of people
with highly visible situations, not to mention the people who are not even close.  For better or worse,
the drape cut of the USAF-style jacket is so unforgiving that you can spot someone pushing the tables
from 50k feet.

Yes.  People can see it.

No.  You are not fooling anyone.

Until >that< situation is remedied, the rank and file have every right to whine and complain.

So you think it's ok to say things like "our parent Service still does not practice what they preach" or they want us to "do as I say, not as I do" just because some don't get to wear what they want? Come on, now.

I agree with you about the uniform issues we have in CAP and that they need to be fixed starting from the top, but not about comments like these, which make us look unprofessional.

[Storm Chaser]

All well and good, but a bit oversimplified.

As I said, I, and I suspect a good many others, would very much like to meet the Air Force's standards.

However, in my case, and, again, many others, we have physical disabilities (such as thyroid problems and other problems that render us unable to vigorously exercise) or are on medications that we have to have.  I could quit taking my medications, and within probably a few months the extra pounds would drop off.  However, my wife would probably be burying me before that.

When I have worn the blue uniform (and I got married in it), I have worn it exactly to specifications: always cleaned, pressed, ribbons cleaned, shoes shined, etc.  I had long hair and a beard when I joined CAP.  I got a military haircut and shaved my beard.

I can feel safe in saying that if you, a USAF officer, would have inspected me in the blue uniform, you would have found nothing out of place.  I doubt a Blue Rope MTI could have.  That sounds egotistical, but it is true.

Once when I was wearing the blue uniform, a CMSgt noticed that my nameplate was very, very slightly off kilter and asked me for permission to adjust, which I of course gave.  I then asked him if anything else needed attention, and he said "no, you're fine."  I would think if I were wearing the uniform improperly, he would have noticed.

What my problem is, is that I (and others with medical conditions) am being penalised for something I have no control over (and I have talked to my doctor about it).  I believe there is a difference between cases I have cited and those who CHOOSE to be couch potatoes, eat too many Big Macs, etc.  The Air Force appears unwilling or unable to take that into account.  The Air Force has every right to tell Active, Reserve and Guard personnel to "get fit or get out," but I would lay very good odds that these Airmen do not have medical conditions such as I and many other CAP colleagues have.  If they did, they would be DQ'd from service to begin with or be hiding it at the risk of being caught out and kicked out for Fraudulent Enlistment.

If the AF would stop us from wearing THEIR uniform (and I am aware it is THEIR uniform; I was in the ANG), I would not necessarily be opposed...as long as we would not default to the status quo "corporates."  My big problem with those is that they are colourless, have nothing to do with our heritage and nothing identifiable with aviation of any kind.

Nonetheless, despite the fact that I do not like the uniform, I wear the G/W as prescribed - cleaned, pressed, badging in the right places, etc.

There is a lot of talk about our heritage, since our heritage is Army Khaki (as there was no blue AF uniform when we were founded), I don't see an issue with going away from the blues and coming up with a uniform that everyone can wear.  If you don't like the grey and white, come up with another suggestion, but we should have one uniform per function (flight suit, field, dress/office)

+1

[Eclipse]

So you think it's ok to say things like "our parent Service still does not practice what they preach" or they want us to "do as I say, not as I do" just because some don't get to wear what they want? Come on, now.

I agree with you about the uniform issues we have in CAP and that they need to be fixed starting from the top, but not about comments like these, which make us look unprofessional.

Who said anything about the parent service?  I'm talking about CAP leadership and staff at all levels.
Other then the academic contradiction of the fact that there are likely thousands of Airman, both NCO and officer, serving
proudly well overweight in the USAF uniform, yet CAP isn't granted that allowance, I don't honestly care what the USAF
does for its own people. they have made it clear it's not relevent to CAP members.
Those are paid professionals being given careers, benefits, clothing allowances and schooling 
in exchange for their willingness to defend the country and potentially die doing it.  A reasonable bargain if somewhat lopsided
during wartime, especially these days.

On the CAP side, the debt is entirely in favor of the members, who pay to join, pay to serve, and pay for just about everything,
not the least of which is with their time.  With no ability to conscript or compel, CAP folds up the day after it loses the benevolence of the membership,
something apparently not a priority to address these days.

The unimultiform is in the state that it is for two primary reasons:

It's a huge broken compromise that ultimately defeats its own purpose.

Many of the same people charged with its evolution and enforcement, themselves, feel no compunction
to follow the rules, so the contradictions and other issues don't affect them.

The opinion of a member below Wing CC may attract attention in a Starbucks, if only to be polite, but
the only people who will ever "fix" things, including making the requests to CAP-USAF to either ease up
or change, are those with eagles and stars, and until they are forced to enforce the rules downstream,
and comply themselves, personally, nothing will change.  Why would it?

That has nothing to do with the parent service, which is probably largely unaware of the CAP issues
beyond being embarrassed when they see a lot of the members.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

The only thing I say regarding our parent Service is that they seem to think that people in CAP who are outside H/W limits are penalised in many cases for things that they cannot help.  The thinking I seem to get is "if you eat too many Big Macs and don't get off the sofa and exercise, you're going to be fat and so cannot wear our uniform."  The FACT that many in CAP are outside of H/W limits because of factors BEYOND THEIR CONTROL (as I outlined) and are penalised in the same way that the couch potatoes are does irk the heck out of me.  I remember that the AF in general is, "one size fits all, don't break the mould," (as any newcomer to Lackland LaLaLand learns) and they can do that, because there are strict health standards for joining and for remaining an Airman.  If you don't pass, then do not pass Go, do not collect $200 on your way out to civvy street...and the reasons don't really matter.  If it's the result of a medical condition or one requiring medication, you don't belong in the military anyway.

The rest of the blame...I agree 100% with Eclipse.  Unless/until the people with stars and eagles start doing something, those down the food chain are going to remain disgruntled.

As for khaki, I would go for that way, way more than colourless grey and white with a Realtor jacket.



I would even go for a service dress jacket cut like the pre-90s in ultramarine.

[Storm Chaser]

So you think it's ok to say things like "our parent Service still does not practice what they preach" or they want us to "do as I say, not as I do" just because some don't get to wear what they want? Come on, now.

I agree with you about the uniform issues we have in CAP and that they need to be fixed starting from the top, but not about comments like these, which make us look unprofessional.

Who said anything about the parent service?

CyBorg did and I was replying to his post.

[Eclipse]

Actually you replied the mine.

[Storm Chaser]

Actually you replied the mine.

Actually, I replied to your reply to my reply to CyBorg's post. I'm getting dizzy just typing that.

[Eclipse]

Clearly, people aren't wearing enough hats...

[ColonelJack]

Clearly, people aren't wearing enough hats...

As long as one of those hats isn't that silly French thing ...

Jack

[Panache]

Clearly, people aren't wearing enough hats...

As long as one of those hats isn't that silly French thing ...

Jack

No, the only hats we're allowed to wear is the "CAP Baseball cap."

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

No, the only hats we're allowed to wear is the "CAP Baseball cap."

Which has not been defined.

Broadly defined, if I go and buy a $5 baseball cap and stick something like this (all of which are obsolete) on it, it then becomes a "CAP baseball cap."







(I would go out on a limb and include this, but that is an Air Force patch, not a CAP patch):

[Storm Chaser]

CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

[MSG Mac]

Clearly, people aren't wearing enough hats...

As long as one of those hats isn't that silly French thing ...

Jack

It's called a kepi.

[Panache]

CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

Well, that certainly clarifies things!

Oh, but wait.  In PAWG, we all have to wear the silly orange caps when in our BDUs/BBDUs.  But only in our BDUs/BBDUs.  So, what do we wear during the other times?  My Wing / Region commander hasn't prescribed any other color, unit designation, and/or emblem.

[Luis R. Ramos]

It cannot be the Kepi he was referencing, as a Kepi is no more silly than the patrol caps worn by US forces!

[ColonelJack]

It cannot be the Kepi he was referencing, as a Kepi is no more silly than the patrol caps worn by US forces!

No, I wasn't referencing a kepi.  They may be French, but they're not silly.

The silly French hat is much more of a floppy, useless piece of head cover.  And incredibly silly.

Jack

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

CAP Baseball Cap. Wing and region commanders may prescribe color, unit designation, and/or emblem to be on the baseball cap. No rank insignia may be worn on this cap, and no emblems (clouds, darts, etc.) may be worn on the cap visor.

May prescribe.

And if my Wing/Region Commander were to do so, I would wear that.  I still have one from my former squadron hanging in my closet.

Absent that, as long as one avoids the "scrambled eggs" and rank insignia, and of course being ordered not to by higher authority, the field is still rather wide.

I still do not understand the ambiguity toward berets by personnel here in the U.S.  Some hate it, and others believe it is only for elite units.

There are a lot of other countries besides les français for whom the beret is standard issue for basic trainees off the street.

GERMANY:


GREAT BRITAIN (RAF Air Training Corps Cadets):


THE NETHERLANDS:


AUSTRIA:


CANADA (Navy):


So what the beef is about this piece of headgear...ahh doannn geddit.

[Luis R. Ramos]

Jack, I got it, I think!

It cannot be the b....! I cannot get the word out as there was a post lauding it so much following yours...

And what the beef is so special about the beret that others here want it? Granted, used by Special Forces. So what!???

It does not protect from the sun, takes special care. We may wear a top hat as well!

It surprises me that Cyborg, with his constant request for a hat for the Gray/Whites appears now to defend the Beret...