Military Badges

[stillamarine]

[darn], Tim. You must be 4" shorter for it too! I got washed up at 62 fixed and rotary. I AM 1" shorter than when I enlisted and I'm not that old.

It takes 65 for masert Parachutist with some other qualifications:

Participated in 65 jumps to include 25 jumps with combat equipment; four night jumps, one of which is as a jumpmaster of a stick; five mass tactical jumps which culminate in an airborne assault problem with a unit equivalent to a battalion or   larger, a separate company/battery, or organic staff of a regiment size or larger; graduated from the Jumpmaster Course; and served in jump status with an airborne unit or other organization authorized parachutists for a total of at least 36 months.

If you meet that then, you earned it.

I was three jumps short but, I only have three MASSTAC. My knees are pretty shot these days. Go figure.

LOL Actually 2 inches! I enlisted at 68" and when I had my physical this year for work I was a whopping 66"!

I have plenty of jumps with gear, and plenty of night jumps.  But I don't think I've ever done a mass jump like you describe.  I think the closest thing I've done to a mass jump would be company sized.  We just don't operate that big.  Heck I'd think you would have to get every jump qual'd Marine in the Corps for that kinda thing!

I love to jump it's the ultimate experience, but after enough of them it's just another part of the jump.  I jump irregularly now that I'm out with my next planned one next month for my buddy's GF's college graduation.

[Sgt. Savage]

It all comes back to the experience, not the badge. I believe that a system is being developed to draw on the experiences of prior service NCOs; to fully utilize that knowledge base as a training aid and as a counsel for the officers they serve. That is a big reason for me trading my butter bars in for stripes.

I like the idea of a group of individuals with like experiences that can work together toward a common goal, in support of the organization.

rangersigo,

When did you serve? Did I know you?

[Sgt. Savage]

there needs to be a team at National to keep this important regulation current.

We could make CAPM 39-1 an RSS feed...

This only helps my point, either say in 39-1 refer to this for authorized military awards, or don't include them at all.  Why do we need to exhaust our funds and personnel resources to keep up with DoD changes?  Hire a whole team just to maintain one manual?

Maybe it makes sense to let 39-1dictate wear of the CAP specific uniform and leave the AF style uniforms generic ( name tape wing patch, position/style of CAP insignia...) and reference the AFI for all military accouterments. What does that do to the badges? It may very well disqualify all other military badges. Though the rule may be that if the AF allows it ever, the CAP can wear it.

[brasda91]

There is a section in CAPM 39-1 that lists the military badges authorized to be worn on the CAP uniform.  In the Air Force, Jump Wings fall under "aeronautical" badges, so you won't see jump wings, but you can wear them.

From AFI36-2903: "Aeronautical and space badges are worn above occupational and miscellaneous badges. When more than 1 aeronautical or space badge is worn, the second badge becomes
optional.  The parachutist badge is not considered an aeronautical badge, however it does
take precedence over other badges."

From AFI11-402 "NOTE: A parachutist badge is not considered an aviation badge."

Sounds like jump wings are in a grey area in CAPM 39-1.  I assume CAP intended them to fall under "US Military Aeronautical Badges".  I'm not taking them off.  Molon Lave!

At one time I too wore my Jump Wings, then I switched to my GT badge.  After reviewing the latest 39-1 table 6-5 I noticed that JW's are not listed.  I too wonder if they inadvertently left them out?

[Sgt. Savage]

There is a section in CAPM 39-1 that lists the military badges authorized to be worn on the CAP uniform.  In the Air Force, Jump Wings fall under "aeronautical" badges, so you won't see jump wings, but you can wear them.

From AFI36-2903: "Aeronautical and space badges are worn above occupational and miscellaneous badges. When more than 1 aeronautical or space badge is worn, the second badge becomes
optional.  The parachutist badge is not considered an aeronautical badge, however it does
take precedence over other badges."

From AFI11-402 "NOTE: A parachutist badge is not considered an aviation badge."

Sounds like jump wings are in a grey area in CAPM 39-1.  I assume CAP intended them to fall under "US Military Aeronautical Badges".  I'm not taking them off.  Molon Lave!

At one time I too wore my Jump Wings, then I switched to my GT badge.  After reviewing the latest 39-1 table 6-5 I noticed that JW's are not listed.  I too wonder if they inadvertently left them out?

Airborne wings are covered in AFI 11-401. They act as an Aeronautical badge of a non-Aeronautical rating. Kinda confusing but what isn't these days?

[brasda91]

Seems like some AFI reg's that do not pertain to CAP are being quoted.  As per the National website only the AFI 10-2701 and 10-2702 are listed.  Maybe those are the only reg's we as CAP members should be referencing.

[brasda91]

mass tactical jumps which culminate in an airborne assault problem with a unit equivalent to a battalion or   larger, and served in jump status with an airborne unit or other organization authorized parachutists for a total of at least 36 months.

HOOAH!! 82nd Airborne Division, B co 1/505th PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment) '89-'92

[Sgt. Savage]

Seems like some AFI reg's that do not pertain to CAP are being quoted.  As per the National website only the AFI 10-2701 and 10-2702 are listed.  Maybe those are the only reg's we as CAP members should be referencing.

Actually, 39-1 says :"Only those badges authorized for wear on the USAF uniform are authorized on the CAP uniform"

and "on the BDU as prescribed by the US Air Force."

Though it doesn't reference the AFI by name, it does direct us to the Air Force standard.

[Sgt. Savage]

mass tactical jumps which culminate in an airborne assault problem with a unit equivalent to a battalion or   larger, and served in jump status with an airborne unit or other organization authorized parachutists for a total of at least 36 months.

HOOAH!! 82nd Airborne Division, B co 1/505th PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment) '89-'92

Mass Tac = a boring ride followed by a tight body position, resulting in trying like hell to not get your wind stolen, or land on anyone in the 25 seconds you have to acctually think. Absolute chaos!! I miss it, a little

[brasda91]

mass tactical jumps which culminate in an airborne assault problem with a unit equivalent to a battalion or   larger, and served in jump status with an airborne unit or other organization authorized parachutists for a total of at least 36 months.

HOOAH!! 82nd Airborne Division, B co 1/505th PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment) '89-'92

Mass Tac = a boring ride followed by a tight body position, resulting in trying like hell to not get your wind stolen, or land on anyone in the 25 seconds you have to actually think. Absolute chaos!! I miss it, a little

Ha Ha Ha.  You bring back memories!

[RogueLeader]

mass tactical jumps which culminate in an airborne assault problem with a unit equivalent to a battalion or   larger, and served in jump status with an airborne unit or other organization authorized parachutists for a total of at least 36 months.

HOOAH!! 82nd Airborne Division, B co 1/505th PIR (Parachute Infantry Regiment) '89-'92

Mass Tac = a boring ride followed by a tight body position, resulting in trying like hell to not get your wind stolen, or land on anyone in the 25 seconds you have to actually think. Absolute chaos!! I miss it, a little

Ha Ha Ha.  You bring back memories!

Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly good aicraft?  I totally understand getting out of a bad one. . .

[stillamarine]

If they made good airplanes then they wouldn't have made good parachutes   

[RogueLeader]

If they made good airplanes then they wouldn't have made good parachutes   

So long as it's doing what it's supposed to be doing, its a good aircraft.  after that, well, you know. . . .

[Former_C/LTC]

Poor choice of words, a team at national would only screw things up more.  Let's face, we have a corporate entity that runs our organization that is poorly represented by the membership and this topic is outside of this email thread.  The best solution would be to create small but diverse groups across CAP to recommend timely changes to all publications based on input from the US Air Force.  And at the risk of repeating myself we are the Auxiliary US Air Force, officially part of the US Air Force, and while technically a civilian nonprofit corporation and for better or worse the public sees us at being part of the military despite all the bells and whistles we place on our BDU's....!!  Don't even get me started on US Civil Air Patrol...!!  LOL

[Trung Si Ma]

Just a thought, I wonder if there would be enough support from former active military, rangers, etc to set up a group for us to communicate among another.  How many would support, many of these questions could be answered about prior service badges, PME, etc?

Hell, I volunteered a couple of times before in life, guess this is once that won't get me hurt - count me in.

[Trung Si Ma]

[Mass Tac = a boring ride followed by a tight body position, resulting in trying like hell to not get your wind stolen, or land on anyone in the 25 seconds you have to acctually think. Absolute chaos!! I miss it, a little

Everything except Green Ramp!

[Trung Si Ma]

Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly good aicraft?  I totally understand getting out of a bad one. . .

Everything on that aircraft - except the parachutes - was made by the lowest bidder

[Dragoon]

And at the risk of repeating myself we are the Auxiliary US Air Force, officially part of the US Air Force, and while technically a civilian nonprofit corporation and for better or worse the public sees us at being part of the military despite all the bells and whistles we place on our BDU's....!!  

Sadly, the law and our Statement of Work with USAF makes it clear that the above is a bit of an exaggeration - we are only the Auxiliary of USAF some of the time.  Hence our current state of confusion......

[JC004]

Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly good aicraft?  I totally understand getting out of a bad one. . .

Everything on that aircraft - except the parachutes - was made by the lowest bidder

Good point.  I'm still not jumping, though.   

[RogueLeader]

Why would you want to jump out of a perfectly good aicraft?  I totally understand getting out of a bad one. . .

Everything on that aircraft - except the parachutes - was made by the lowest bidder

Good point.  I'm still not jumping, though.   

Me either, not unless I have to in order to save my skin.