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USAFAcadet2018
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« on: May 01, 2014, 07:22:18 PM »

With the demise of the NCGC and the rewriting of the regulations, what would be some guidelines for parade rifles? I understand they must be non operational, but do they need slings? And specific color they have to be?
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C/2dLt Nicholas Martin
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« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2014, 07:26:18 PM »

Anything you can get your hands on from a block of wood to demilled M14's.

Two hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.
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a2capt
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« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2014, 07:29:12 PM »

Two hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.
Builds character. Practice with what you're going to compete with.

You've still got local/region competitions in many instances, too.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: May 01, 2014, 07:33:34 PM »

Heh - another thing which will "build character" is getting caught spinning and throwing brand new rifles
after being told specifically "never do that with these".
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a2capt
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« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2014, 07:53:28 PM »

That's a discipline problem. Both before, and after.

Why are we here? To learn and master the materials and actions described in the rules of engagement, to come together as a team, and ultimately show the judges how hard we worked.
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NIN
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« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2014, 08:10:16 PM »

I don't know how much character building there is in a 5' 3" 90 pound cadet trying to hold up a 10 pound drill rifle
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2014, 09:49:34 PM »

Muscle mass!
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Mitchell 1969
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« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2014, 10:23:31 PM »

Heh - another thing which will "build character" is getting caught spinning and throwing brand new rifles
after being told specifically "never do that with these".

Why would anyone on a color guard ever spin or throw a rifle? Doing so when with the colors is both dangerous and a distraction from their assigned function, that of guarding the colors. Therefore, they shouldn't be told to spin or toss. If someone decides that an actual prohibition should be given, then give it. And hold accountable anyone who violates that prohibition.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 10:29:15 PM »

The Color Guard members I have seen throwing rifles were doing that because they were also members of a Drill Team. They were practicing the routines they would use for their drill team, not their Color Guard routines...
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a2capt
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« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2014, 10:29:59 PM »

Why would anyone on a color guard ever spin or throw a rifle?
..which is why I called that a discipline problem. :)

It's not why they're there.
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Johnny Yuma
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« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2014, 11:45:20 PM »

Anything you can get your hands on from a block of wood to demilled M14's.

Two hints - practice with the wood, and the M14's are too heavy for the average cadet to be carrying around for a long time.

I dunno about that, Marine Corps and Navy JROTC units around use them for CG around here almost exclusively.

demilled 1903's and M1's can be had, but they are pricey. Expect to pay about $350 apiece. You can effectively forget M14's, Uncle Sam's keeping them for hisself what he has left. You can make a dummy M14 rifle from parts, but that'll cost you as much as buying a semiauto M1a from one of the makers.
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Panzerbjorn
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« Reply #11 on: May 19, 2014, 09:36:14 PM »

There are options if you gotta have an M14....

http://www.evike.com/products/24006/

Airsoft rifles would be a cheaper alternative if you're looking for the look.  Lots of different styles out there, and just pull the gear boxes and electricals to cut down the weight and any temptation to play with it.  But I wouldn't go down the Airsoft route if you're planning on flipping and spinning them.  You can get rifles that are durable, but they're definitely not designed to take too many impacts on concrete or pavement.

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« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2014, 01:00:36 AM »

They would have to be de-miled first....but those look nice.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, SMSgt, CAP
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« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2014, 01:19:00 AM »

They would have to be de-miled first....but those look nice.

What's the definition of de-miled?  They already can't accommodate any receiver, live rounds, etc.  they're electric toy guns.

I'm sure you're seeing something, but I can't see it.
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« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2014, 01:45:55 AM »

^ CAP regs do not allow parade rifles to be capable of any shooting any projectile.
At minimum you'd need to remove the entirely of the firing mechanism.


Per 52-16:
2-11. Weapons. There will be no firearms, air guns, paint guns or any devices that could be used as weapons at cadet activities. The only exceptions to this policy are:
a. Deactivated Firearms. Cadets may use facsimile or deactivated firearms only as part of an honor guard or color guard. A deactivated firearm is one that will prevent the insertion of ammunition or the firing of a weapon. A facsimile is a copy that is not capable of firing ammunition.
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a2capt
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« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2014, 02:14:51 AM »

De-activated, rendered not to be fired again. Gee, if they sold the RMA'ed airsoft stuff.. after further 'breaking' it..
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Panzerbjorn
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« Reply #16 on: May 20, 2014, 03:52:14 AM »

Ah, well, that's why I said pull the gears and electricals out.  There ya go.  Airsoft rifles also have an inner barrel usually made of brass that has a hop-up chamber attached to it (read receiver and breech).  Take that part out (it slides right out) and you have no means of firing any projectile.  You could go a step further with it and replace the inner barrel with a 7mm solid rod for weight and fill the outer barrel.

Problem solved.



Here...this is the inner barrel and hop up unit in an Airsoft M14.  It slides right out when the rifle is disassembled.  You've now taken away the ability completely for this rifle to accept and fire Plastic BB ammunition.



This is that rifle 'field stripped'. You can clearly see the 'guts' of this Airsoft rifle.  See that black thing at the left side of the receiver mechanism with the wires hanging out? That's an electric motor that drives the gear box that fires the rifle.  Take that motor off, you've completely disabled the rifle.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 04:05:37 AM by Panzerbjorn » Report to moderator   Logged
Major
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Panzerbjorn
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« Reply #17 on: May 20, 2014, 04:15:49 AM »

You want a Garand for the same price as that M14 without any fuss in de-miling it?  Here ya go...

Cheap M1 Garand Parade Rifle
« Last Edit: May 20, 2014, 04:19:44 AM by Panzerbjorn » Report to moderator   Logged
Major
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« Reply #18 on: May 20, 2014, 08:13:12 AM »

You want a Garand for the same price as that M14 without any fuss in de-miling it?  Here ya go...

Cheap M1 Garand Parade Rifle

Order directly from the source: http://www.paradestore.com/index.php/our-products/replica-rifles.html

Plus speaking from experience, Demil'ed M1's are perfectly usable by teens. I did exhibition drill in high school myself and our weapons were demil'ed M1s with concrete in them. About 8-12lbs and quite workable once you get the hang of them. We'd always laugh when at meets and we would ask to spin the lightweight rifles that the AFJROTC cadets had. (I was NJROTC)
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« Reply #19 on: May 20, 2014, 01:30:05 PM »

I did exhibition drill in high school myself

Yes, high school - big difference between a 12 year old and a 15-16 year old, and color guards
tend to be on the low-end of age and grade.

In >ALL< cases, the best bet is to go with the lightest, cheapest, most easy to replace option.

No one from more then 10 feet away is going to know or care what they look like as long as they semi-resemble
a weapon-ish looking thing.  The ability to move the bolt, click the trigger, or do anything but put it on your
shoulder is wasted in CAP.

I can't tell you how many "we're starting a CG" conversations begin with the rifles and end with them being
unused in the corner of someone's closet because all effort was spent on affectation and none on learning to
carry the colors.


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