A possible jacket for the aviator G/W kit?

[Panache]

5) Change the Flight Officer shoulder grade marks from the "naval stripes" to an embroidered version of the sew-on collar grade.

Even with bifocals, I cannot often make out the embroidered teeny-tiny white stripes on that insignia denoting an FO/TFO/SFO.  The AF does not use warrant officer grades, which is why I suggested those.  At worst, we would be confused with Customs & Border Patrol "journeyman" insignia.



I can say from experience that CBP shoulder slides are indistinguishable from the USAF.  I would not be surprised if CBP uses AF shoulder slides.  I have seen them many, many times when coming back from Canada and, if not the same, they're pretty darn close.

Indeed.  I think these:

(in gray and with the CAP lettering, of course)

...look much nicer than these:

[Panache]

Swap out all metal grade, make headgear same device as blues, and wow, that would look good.

Thank you.  I do not understand the aversion to metal grade, though...on a uniform like this there is no way we could be mistaken for the USAF.

1) While I like the idea of metal grade on the cap, I doubt that the Powers-That-Be would.  Frankly, I'm surprised we're allowed to have metal grade on the BBDU cap.

Which Powers-That-Be?  The AF, or the P-T-B in CAP who view that as almost a third rail?

And, yes, I have never figured out why we are permitted to have it on just one item of clothing...

You know, now that I've had time to ruminate over it...

To the best of my recollection, and if I'm wrong please somebody correct me, but no officers in the USAF nowadays wear metal grade insignia on their collar, correct?  The only place where metal officer grade insignia is worn is on outerwear (service coat, all-weather coat, etc.) and the flight cap if I remember correctly.

With this "CAP-only" outfit we're putting together here, and again "getting back to our USAAF roots", I suggest wearing a single metal grade insignia on the wearer's right collar, with the CAP cut-outs on the wearer's left collar.  This would further make the uniform "CAP-distinctive" (as this setup isn't used by Ma Blue anymore) to prevent confusion with USAF commissioned officers.

For the service coat, all-weather coat, etc. nothing would change from your proposal (i.e. gray CAP shoulder marks).

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^I do not think metal grade on the collar has been worn by the AF since some wore subdued metal grade on the BDU in days gone past.

However, as I have said, that seems to be the "third rail" (along with the colour blue) that CAP seems to be unwilling to even discuss, let alone touch.

I had thought of your idea myself, actually, but I did not put it forward because of that attitude:  "EEK!  Metal grade!  Blue shirt!  The AF will be honked-off!"

I am not really "putting together a new uniform."  I posted this because for some time many have asked me if I actually had a proposal, or if I was just going to gripe about it on CT.  I did this to show that I do have a proposal.

However, I do not see it having any more than a fart's chance in a hurricane of actually being considered, given that from the new 39-1, the attitude of the NUC seems to me to be rigidly status-quo.

[Panache]

However, I do not see it having any more than a fart's chance in a hurricane of actually being considered, given that from the new 39-1, the attitude of the NUC seems to me to be rigidly status-quo.

Unfortunately, I have to agree.  This is all just mental gymnastics.  I hazard to say there's a snowball's chance in Panama of any meaningful changes.

[arajca]

I like to ideas in general, however I do have a couple of suggestions:
1. Flight/garrision cap - Dark Navy to match service coat or black. Either with silver checked piping
2. Include service cap in matching color for service coat (optional)
3. Formal "Mess" dress - white pleated front tuxedo shirt, black bow tie as listed, remove name tag, replace ribbons with miniature medals.
4. Pants/trousers - Dress slacks, color - Gray Heather, flat front, no cuffed hems, slant pockets (front), inset pockets (rear). No jeans, jean cut, tactical/bdu style, or casual ("khakis") pants.
5. Shirt - specify with two flat, non-pleated, flapped pockets with pointed pocket hem and flap.

[Panache]

If we're talking shades of blue, I really like the royal-blue shirts used by the TSA.  Unfortunately, that color has now been tainted by association by the TSA.

Ironically enough, with the white-shirt-gray-slacks, we look like.... former TSA.  (sigh)

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

^^Or mall security guards.  Honestly, at our local mall, the security people look so much like they're wearing the G/W kit that they look like CAP members until you get close enough to see the accoutrements on their uniforms and that they're wearing a leather police-type belt.

[THRAWN]

If we're talking shades of blue, I really like the royal-blue shirts used by the TSA.  Unfortunately, that color has now been tainted by association by the TSA.

Ironically enough, with the white-shirt-gray-slacks, we look like.... former TSA.  (sigh)

TSA NEVER wore gray slacks. And all of the white shirts shown are second generation shirts, introduced in 2004-5. The shade of blue was chosen by a Federal Security Director in one of the square fly over states who was a retired police and was chair of the uni board. Why that blue? It was the same as the one his department wore.

[Panache]

If we're talking shades of blue, I really like the royal-blue shirts used by the TSA.  Unfortunately, that color has now been tainted by association by the TSA.

Ironically enough, with the white-shirt-gray-slacks, we look like.... former TSA.  (sigh)

TSA NEVER wore gray slacks.

I'm just passing along this little info-graphic put out by the TSA.  Granted, I've never been much of a TSA-groupie, so you could tell me they wore yellow and pink bathing trunks in 2005 and I would take your word for it.

The shade of blue was chosen by a Federal Security Director in one of the square fly over states who was a retired police and was chair of the uni board. Why that blue? It was the same as the one his department wore.

Well, it is a nice shade of blue.  Too bad it's now tainted by association.

[THRAWN]

Define "tainted".

[Panache]

Define "tainted".

Would you want anybody to even think you worked for the TSA?

[THRAWN]

Define "tainted".

Would you want anybody to even think you worked for the TSA?

And again, why would that be an issue? There's a lot more to TSA than just the screening function. Even those types are trained, tested, retrained, retested, every time some citizen with a narrow focus and little understanding of just what the job entails complains to their congresscritter. Granted, there are those who give the agency a bad name. Same for CAP. Same for the USAF. Same for the FBI. Same for the Harper Valley PTA.

[Panache]

Define "tainted".

Would you want anybody to even think you worked for the TSA?

And again, why would that be an issue? There's a lot more to TSA than just the screening function.

But this is the most visible and well-known, and reviled, part of the TSA.  I think you underestimate the extreme ire that most Americans feel towards the TSA.

[Майор Хаткевич]

I have my own Family TSA horror story from 2006. A senator/congressman had to get involved. And I'm not talking about the public screeners either.

[THRAWN]

Define "tainted".

Would you want anybody to even think you worked for the TSA?

And again, why would that be an issue? There's a lot more to TSA than just the screening function.

But this is the most visible and well-known, and reviled, part of the TSA.  I think you underestimate the extreme ire that most Americans feel towards the TSA.

And that's because most Americans have little or no idea just what the agency does on a day to day basis. Nor do they care.

[Panache]

And that's because most Americans have little or no idea just what the agency does on a day to day basis. Nor do they care.

I'm not here to argue the pros or cons of the TSA.  The fact is, most Americans hold them in very low regard.  Especially the screeners.  Whether this is justified or not is besides the point.  The point is that (a) the shade of blue that they use is, in my opinion, rather handsome, (b) I would propose this as a CAP uniform item to replace the white aviator shirt, if not for (c) that color is now associated with TSA screeners.  Which, again, most Americans rank between "used car salesman" and "member of Congress" in likability.

I have my own Family TSA horror story from 2006. A senator/congressman had to get involved. And I'm not talking about the public screeners either.

Apparently, as per THRAWN, you simply misunderstood the situation as you were not aware of the full nuances of the circumstances.

[THRAWN]

And that's because most Americans have little or no idea just what the agency does on a day to day basis. Nor do they care.

I'm not here to argue the pros or cons of the TSA.  The fact is, most Americans hold them in very low regard.  Especially the screeners.  Whether this is justified or not is besides the point.  The point is that (a) the shade of blue that they use is, in my opinion, rather handsome, (b) I would propose this as a CAP uniform item to replace the white aviator shirt, if not for (c) that color is now associated with TSA screeners.  Which, again, most Americans rank between "used car salesman" and "member of Congress" in likability.

I have my own Family TSA horror story from 2006. A senator/congressman had to get involved. And I'm not talking about the public screeners either.

Apparently, as per THRAWN, you simply misunderstood the situation as you were not aware of the full nuances of the circumstances.

I never said that. And it is not beside the point as to it being justified. You opened the door to this discussion, and as is typical, don't have all of the facts before you make ignorant statements. I would never, and have never, discounted anyone's TSA "horror story". I do like how you use the word "fact" and an unverified statistic in the same sentence.

As for the color of the shirt, it'd work. I don't see the Marines changing the color of their uniform shirts because the color is associated with the Nazis...

[Panache]

And that's because most Americans have little or no idea just what the agency does on a day to day basis. Nor do they care.

I'm not here to argue the pros or cons of the TSA.  The fact is, most Americans hold them in very low regard.  Especially the screeners.  Whether this is justified or not is besides the point.  The point is that (a) the shade of blue that they use is, in my opinion, rather handsome, (b) I would propose this as a CAP uniform item to replace the white aviator shirt, if not for (c) that color is now associated with TSA screeners.  Which, again, most Americans rank between "used car salesman" and "member of Congress" in likability.

I have my own Family TSA horror story from 2006. A senator/congressman had to get involved. And I'm not talking about the public screeners either.

Apparently, as per THRAWN, you simply misunderstood the situation as you were not aware of the full nuances of the circumstances.

You opened the door to this discussion, and as is typical, don't have all of the facts before you make ignorant statements. I would never, and have never, discounted anyone's TSA "horror story". I do like how you use the word "fact" and an unverified statistic in the same sentence.

I eagerly look forward to your evidence of pro-TSA sentiment in the United States.

I don't see the Marines changing the color of their uniform shirts because the color is associated with the Nazis...

Godwin's Law violation.

[THRAWN]

And that's because most Americans have little or no idea just what the agency does on a day to day basis. Nor do they care.

I'm not here to argue the pros or cons of the TSA.  The fact is, most Americans hold them in very low regard.  Especially the screeners.  Whether this is justified or not is besides the point.  The point is that (a) the shade of blue that they use is, in my opinion, rather handsome, (b) I would propose this as a CAP uniform item to replace the white aviator shirt, if not for (c) that color is now associated with TSA screeners.  Which, again, most Americans rank between "used car salesman" and "member of Congress" in likability.

I have my own Family TSA horror story from 2006. A senator/congressman had to get involved. And I'm not talking about the public screeners either.

Apparently, as per THRAWN, you simply misunderstood the situation as you were not aware of the full nuances of the circumstances.

You opened the door to this discussion, and as is typical, don't have all of the facts before you make ignorant statements. I would never, and have never, discounted anyone's TSA "horror story". I do like how you use the word "fact" and an unverified statistic in the same sentence.

I eagerly look forward to your evidence of pro-TSA sentiment in the United States.

I don't see the Marines changing the color of their uniform shirts because the color is associated with the Nazis...

Godwin's Law violation.

Reading comprehension isn't your bag, eh? I never said that there was any pro-TSA sentiment, but since you have this facination with lies, [darn]ed lies, and statistics, here you go:

From The Harris Poll conducted in March: "Those more likely to have been on the business end of a TSA screening within the past year are more likely to see it as both making air travel safer (46% among those who took no airline trips in the past year vs. 55% among those who took 1-5 and 57% among those who took over 5) and serving as an effective deterrent to hijacking (45% vs. 53% and 60%, respectively). "

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/mid/1508/articleId/1419/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/Default.aspx

MOST Americans will never be exposed to TSA screening because MOST Americans don't fly. Those that do are of the Chevy Chase variety, taking the kidlings to Wally World. They are the ones that have the most issue with the process. Why? Because they never do it. They are the ones that make the most complaints and they are the ones who, when polled, skew the statistics in a negative trend.

Good misuse of Godwin's Law. Again, the comprehension thing...

[Panache]

Reading comprehension isn't your bag, eh? I never said that there was any pro-TSA sentiment, but since you have this facination with lies, [darn]ed lies, and statistics, here you go:

From The Harris Poll conducted in March: "Those more likely to have been on the business end of a TSA screening within the past year are more likely to see it as both making air travel safer (46% among those who took no airline trips in the past year vs. 55% among those who took 1-5 and 57% among those who took over 5) and serving as an effective deterrent to hijacking (45% vs. 53% and 60%, respectively). "

http://www.harrisinteractive.com/NewsRoom/HarrisPolls/tabid/447/mid/1508/articleId/1419/ctl/ReadCustom%20Default/Default.aspx

MOST Americans will never be exposed to TSA screening because MOST Americans don't fly. Those that do are of the Chevy Chase variety, taking the kidlings to Wally World. They are the ones that have the most issue with the process. Why? Because they never do it. They are the ones that make the most complaints and they are the ones who, when polled, skew the statistics in a negative trend.

Translation: "Yeah, you're right, but I want to be snide about it and throw my spin on it."  Nah, it's okay, I understand.  It's normal to lash out at people when you know you're wrong.

But continue spinning the TSA as some agency Americans just love, because I'm not the one looking foolish on it.

I am kind of curious as to why you're shilling for them, though.

Good misuse of Godwin's Law. Again, the comprehension thing...

You're the one making making Nazi comparisons.  Not me.  Might wanna enroll in that Reading Is Fundamental course at your local community college.

EDIT: Poll fun.  http://www.frequentbusinesstraveler.com/2013/10/poll-85-of-frequent-flyers-give-tsa-fair-or-poor-rating/