Switching to ABU's

[Sergeant#40]

When are we supposed to be switching to ABU's?

[NIN]

When are we supposed to be switching to ABU's?

The first of Never

[Garibaldi]

Didn't Mike or some admin lock ABU out of the system?

[a2capt]

I do have to say, the question is simply not going to go away, not unless they send out slips of paper with every renewal, every initial, right there on top of the uniform pamphlet, 'We will never be switching', and even then..

Because the whole thing was utterly stupid IMHO, to begin with. I also bet the AF will be using that stuff 10 years from now, and we'll still be sniveling about the lack of trickle down supply.

[The14th]

Hopefully never. Those things are god awful ugly.

[Garibaldi]

The only reason I can see that folks want to switch to them is this: It just shows that we have a link to our parent organization.  There is no purpose, no reason, no logic to us switching over. Even though 95% of the US military does not use BDUs on a regular basis, they are still used by various LEOs and other organizations. There was no real reason for the AF to switch either. There was no tactical or strategic advantage to using that uniform. They don't need to hide; where there is an airplane, there usually is a bunch of airmen running around servicing it. Admin folks don't need to blend in to their environment (although they sometimes do). I can't see any reason the AF NEEDED to change over to a digital pattern, and there is absolutely NO REASON we NEED to. The main proponents of the change are the cadets (83%) who think they are tak-ti-kewl, and the remaining 17% are divided among seniors who either think the same way or are sick of paying for cheaper knock-offs that don't last. At first, I wanted them to the point I went and got a set and put CAP insignia on it and found a pair of boots for cheap when I heard the "news" that the new uniform would be forthcoming SOON. Two years later it's still on the table (under the table and  buried under someone's shoes, really) and I have sold them and invested in more BDUs.

Are we going to change? Not in my lifetime, probably.

Should we change? No.

Why not? There is no advantage to changing over. We don't need to hide. More confusion from the general public on who we are. Expense. The military is researching another multi-service uniform. And because the DoD doesn't want us to (last I heard).

Is the issue going to die? No, because the rumor mill is always churning. And cadets love to show off how much they know by telling others we are getting them soon because their best friend's brother's mother's sister's cousin's boyfriend has a friend who knows someone at the Pentagon who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavor's last night who says it's just waiting a signature.

Should we lock out threads with ABU in them? Yes, but someone would figure out a way to spoof the system and still ask.

[NIN]

<snip> their brother's mother's sister's cousin's boyfriend has a friend who knows someone at the Pentagon who saw Ferris pass out at 31 Flavor's lats night who says it's just waiting a signature.

Whoa.

I guess its pretty serious.

Like you, I have a set of ABUs. When I un-retired last year, I didn't want to get a whole set of BDUs stitched up just to switcheroo, so I held off.  (my luck is like that, so I knew that the minute I did that, I'd get hosed)

Also, I had fairly solid intel on the staffing process so I just parked my ABUs on a hangar for the "final word."

Which, sadly, never came.

Good thing? I only spent about $30 on three pair of trousers and a shirt on ebay.  You can literally get good ABUs cheap.

[AlphaSigOU]

Simple, two-letter response:

NO!!!

[Garibaldi]

Simple, two-letter response:

NO!!!

Here, drink this. It's a nice, tall glass of NOPE.

[FlyTiger77]

I just checked and the "Search" button is still functioning...

[Private Investigator]

To bypass the "ABU" filter just type in "@&V". 

[coudano]

When are we supposed to be switching to ABU's?

you can get them approximately 5 days after you step off the bus in san antonio

[SunDog]

Heck, someone bit my head off when I asked why cadets wore woodland camo. I mean, it's OK with me, but it just seemed weird they would need camo. Didn't know the freebie history. And hadn't seen a SM  wearing them, or had, and forgot.  The BDUs are ugly enough - like an unmade bed, but made more sense (to me) because I figured we weren't actually trying to hide, right?

[Fubar]

It just shows that we have a link to our parent organization.

I see the term "parent organization" thrown around quite a bit on this board and I've never thought of the Air Force as a paternal. We were assigned to the Air Force, they weren't the driving force behind our organization's creation. They certainly didn't ask to be our overseers and they continually demonstrate by their budgeting and our re-assignments down the chain of command just how important they think we are. They hold us to the strict letter of the law regarding uniform wear while turning a blind eye to other organizations who wear what they want.

More like legal guardian than parent.

[lordmonar]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

[Storm Chaser]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

That only half of us are allowed to look like the USAF.

[lordmonar]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

That only half of us are allowed to look like the USAF.

Not if I had my way.  But that is another thread.

The question was why do I want ABUs.....not what is the best uniform policy for CAP.

[Eclipse]

The best poilcy for CAP is to have a uniform.

Period.

Affinity before mission accomplishes neither.

[The14th]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because CAP isn't the Air Force, nor the military. We are a CIVILIAN Auxiliary. We should be grateful that the AF even allows us to wear the blues or even the BDUs.

Thinking we "need" ABUs to "mark us as part of the USAF team" just screams of poseritis. Especially when a majority of the time, CAP and AF are completely separate from each other.

Anyone who cares about what we wear or don't wear clearly doesn't understand the mission.

[PHall]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because CAP isn't the Air Force, nor the military. We are a CIVILIAN Auxiliary. We should be grateful that the AF even allows us to wear the blues or even the BDUs.

Thinking we "need" ABUs to "mark us as part of the USAF team" just screams of poseritis. Especially when a majority of the time, CAP and AF are completely separate from each other.

Anyone who cares about what we wear or don't wear clearly doesn't understand the mission.

And which mission would that be? There are three.

[lordmonar]

Anyone who cares about what we wear or don't wear clearly doesn't understand the mission.

Sir.....please take that back.

[Walkman]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because CAP isn't the Air Force, nor the military. We are a CIVILIAN Auxiliary. We should be grateful that the AF even allows us to wear the blues or even the BDUs.

Thinking we "need" ABUs to "mark us as part of the USAF team" just screams of poseritis. Especially when a majority of the time, CAP and AF are completely separate from each other.

Anyone who cares about what we wear or don't wear clearly doesn't understand the mission.

Considering that Lordmonar has spend a long time in the AD USAF, calling him and other prior service CAP members that agree with him "posers" doesn't seem like the best idea.

[The14th]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because CAP isn't the Air Force, nor the military. We are a CIVILIAN Auxiliary. We should be grateful that the AF even allows us to wear the blues or even the BDUs.

Thinking we "need" ABUs to "mark us as part of the USAF team" just screams of poseritis. Especially when a majority of the time, CAP and AF are completely separate from each other.

Anyone who cares about what we wear or don't wear clearly doesn't understand the mission.

Considering that Lordmonar has spend a long time in the AD USAF, calling him and other prior service CAP members that agree with him "posers" doesn't seem like the best idea.

I didn't call him a poser. I said it comes off as poseritis to want ABUs just to "look like the AF" when we can and do the exact same job in BDUs. I see no positive in switching to ABUs and the only arguments I ever see are "so we can resemble our parent service" etc. What's it matter if we "look" like the AF? We aren't the Air Force. And the fact that we are even given the privilege to wear some of their uniforms and their old utility uniforms should be a positive, not a constant "Well, we don't like these because they are old and nobody else wears them. We want ABUs to look like you."

[SunDog]

I'm ex-USAF, but not all that comfortable looking semi-like my old service. For me, it does ring a bit like posing, but that's me, subjectively.  I'd prefer a unique, simple, non-USAF corporate look.  A COTS uniform, like an EMT, or other non-law enforcement look.  Lighten up on that military association, as that isn't what we do.  Don't we have more in common with volunteer firefighters than we do with USAF?

We work with USAF some, but not all that much, or that often.  Not so much that there is a reason we need to look like them.

[PHall]

I'm ex-USAF, but not all that comfortable looking semi-like my old service. For me, it does ring a bit like posing, but that's me, subjectively.  I'd prefer a unique, simple, non-USAF corporate look.  A COTS uniform, like an EMT, or other non-law enforcement look.  Lighten up on that military association, as that isn't what we do. Don't we have more in common with volunteer firefighters than we do with USAF?

We work with USAF some, but not all that much, or that often.  Not so much that there is a reason we need to look like them.

We have very little in common with volunteer firefighters. We are NOT first responders for starters.

[SunDog]

While not first responders, as you say, we do seem to have more in common with those folks than USAF.  Non military, volunteers, on call, imbedded with the local community. Day jobs outside the volunteer duties.

[Brad]

For what it's worth, the BBDU's are the same as SC's Task Force 1, the state USAR group that was one of the founding organizations of SUSAR (State Urban Search and Rescue Alliance). It operates as a specialized volunteer fire/rescue organization under the state firefighter mobilization program, with members being from a variety of other fire deparments, EMD agencies, etc.

http://www.sctf1.sc.gov/

[Storm Chaser]

Okay.

We don't need camo.

We need a uniform that marks us as part of the USAF team.

If the USAF decided they were going to wear lime green fatigues (LGFs) I would want CAP in LGFs.

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

That only half of us are allowed to look like the USAF.

Not if I had my way.  But that is another thread.

The question was why do I want ABUs.....not what is the best uniform policy for CAP.

Actually, the question you asked was "What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?" I believe I answered it.

[Storm Chaser]

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF. In fact, Air Force civilians are considered part of the Total Force (Active, Guard, Reserve, Civilians) and they don't wear uniforms at all. Many AF civilian security guards wear different uniforms from those of their USAF SF counterparts. And what about the Air Force Academy? They have some distinctive uniforms as well. I have nothing against the AF-style uniform (in fact, it's the one I wear most frequently), but I think it's more important that we have one uniform that all members can wear, even if that means giving up the AF-style uniform.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

First of all...we are never going to switch to ABU's.  I am good with that.  I am also good with BBDU's, and with making Woodland BDU's CAP-distinctive.

Second...I have noticed this (to me) disturbing trend since about the late '90s, with a small-but-very-vocal contingent saying we should not be wearing any Air Force uniform, and that we should be moving away from the Air Force in general - mostly, but not exclusively, in senior squadrons.  Those tend to be the ones who think ES is the sole raison d'etre for CAP existence.  Those tend to be the "polo and grey trousers" only crowd, who dislike ranks, customs and courtesies, etc.

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF. In fact, Air Force civilians are considered part of the Total Force (Active, Guard, Reserve, Civilians) and they don't wear uniforms at all.

However, AF civilians are considered part of the Total Force, this is true.  But we are not, not on any AF documentation/website I have seen recently.  I have seen AF civilians recognised by the Air Force, and they are eligible to receive medals for their service that are very close counterparts to active AF decs...which we are not eligible to receive.

An AF civil service office worker is considered part of the Total Force, but a CAP volunteer is not.

I think it's more important that we have one uniform that all members can wear, even if that means giving up the AF-style uniform.

We had one of those, remember (OK, the bearded among us could not wear it, which I could not figure out)?  It got taken away from us.



It is likely that if there were a push for "one uniform for all, one uniform to find them, and in the darkness bind them," it would be the grey/white/blazer, which I (and many others) loathe.

For me, it does ring a bit like posing, but that's me, subjectively.  I'd prefer a unique, simple, non-USAF corporate look.  A COTS uniform, like an EMT, or other non-law enforcement look.  Lighten up on that military association, as that isn't what we do.

In other words, polos and grey trousers all the time.  Yech.

A poseur, to me, is someone pretending to be something they are not.  If I were to wear a Royal Air Force Air Chief Marshal's uniform, I would be a poseur (and a candidate for a room with padded walls).



However, when I wear the modified USAF uniform while serving in CAP, I am not a poseur, because I am not pretending to be something I am not.  I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.  I am proud of that connection with the Air Force.  Were we to lose it, I think we would be finished as an organisation.

We work with USAF some, but not all that much, or that often.  Not so much that there is a reason we need to look like them.

Why?

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I see the term "parent organization" thrown around quite a bit on this board and I've never thought of the Air Force as a paternal. We were assigned to the Air Force, they weren't the driving force behind our organization's creation. They certainly didn't ask to be our overseers and they continually demonstrate by their budgeting and our re-assignments down the chain of command just how important they think we are. They hold us to the strict letter of the law regarding uniform wear while turning a blind eye to other organizations who wear what they want.

More like legal guardian than parent.

Unfortunately, I agree with you in a lot of ways.

State Defence Forces, for example, can wear the AF uniform for their Air Wings and the AF doesn't care, or, as has been pointed out on CT, seemingly has no control over it.

[Fubar]

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because apparently the USAF has a problem with it, otherwise uniforms wouldn't even be on the radar.

Let's face it, we're not really on the "team" otherwise we wouldn't be following the USAF around like the little neighbor kid begging to hang out with the older cool kids. For reasons debated endlessly elsewhere, the USAF cares less and less about us to where they treat us as contractors instead of team members. We're good at what we do and we should be proud that our customer claims at the highest levels to be happy with us, although it's disappointing they say that while at the same time cutting nearly all the funding needed for them to provide their oversight and support roles as mandated by congress.

If the USAF found the work I do in CAP worthy of being called a member of the team and afforded me the opportunity to wear their uniforms, I'd consider it. But given we can never participate nor support the USAF's primary mission of fly, fight and win ... in air, space and cyberspace, I can't see how they'd think of us as part of the team. If I'm not on a team, the last thing I'm going to do is try to look like I am.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

It is that simple.   Why is that so hard to understand?  What is wrong with wanting to look like the USAF?

Because apparently the USAF has a problem with it, otherwise uniforms wouldn't even be on the radar.

Let's face it, we're not really on the "team" otherwise we wouldn't be following the USAF around like the little neighbor kid begging to hang out with the older cool kids. For reasons debated endlessly elsewhere, the USAF cares less and less about us to where they treat us as contractors instead of team members. We're good at what we do and we should be proud that our customer claims at the highest levels to be happy with us, although it's disappointing they say that while at the same time cutting nearly all the funding needed for them to provide their oversight and support roles as mandated by congress.

If the USAF found the work I do in CAP worthy of being called a member of the team and afforded me the opportunity to wear their uniforms, I'd consider it. But given we can never participate nor support the USAF's primary mission of fly, fight and win ... in air, space and cyberspace, I can't see how they'd think of us as part of the team. If I'm not on a team, the last thing I'm going to do is try to look like I am.

You're starting to sound as cynical as I am.

[Fubar]

You're starting to sound as cynical as I am.

I hope I don't come off as sounding like the USAF is some big bad bully in this, because I don't think they are. They have their mission and we simply don't fit into that picture. I don't blame them for having more important things to worry about and it seems like being legally required to be associated with us somewhat annoys them (I don't blame them for that either).

It doesn't hurt my feelings that I'm not a part of the "team" because the work we do, mostly independent of the Air Force, is worthwhile and productive. I feel a little cheated that we help guide a number of outstanding young adults into ROTC, Air Guard, and Air Force Academy without much support from them, but in the long run, they don't factor into what I do for CAP and couldn't care less if they want me on their team or not. I certainly don't care if I wear their uniform or not.

I'm more than content to keep the relationship where it's at now. They put as little monetary and personnel support into their legally required oversight and support roles as possible, the AFRCC keeps calling us for ELTs going off, and we continue to run our cadet, ES, and aerospace programs.

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

I don't think they're a "bully."

I just think that over the years so much distance has grown/been pushed between us that they simply do not care like they once did.

Yes, yes, I know all about what top brass at AFRCC/1AF say...but in my experience how we are treated by average Airman Snuffy (a mixture of "huh?" and/or, "oh, those salute trollers again") is very different.

I think right now it's a case of remaining in a platonic marriage for the sake of the kids (cadets).

[Panache]

I'm just amazed that another "When are we getting ABUs" thread garnered 33 replies.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I am just as amazed by your reply making it number 35!



Flyer

[The14th]

I apologize if my previous posts may have offended some people. It should be noted that it's my opinion, and not so much me trying to force that on anyone. It's just how I feel about the topic.

[Devil Doc]

WOW, Number 36, I feel Lucky.

All I know is what I have observed in the last couple of years.

1. State Defense Forces wear BDU and ACU. They pretty much wear whatever they want, and not many people say anything about it.Plump or Fuzzy it dosnt matter.
2. CG AUX, wear there "Parent" uniform, with subtle differences. I have not heard a single peep from the Coast Guard about them.
3. MARS, they wear the BDU pattern, and have DoD backing just like the CG AUX
4. Sea Cadets, Just liek CG Aux, and they get to do some pretty cool training I might Add.
5.JROTC- well you know the rest.

Now there is CAP. Sure we get to wear BDUs and Air Force Dress Blues, but...  we hardly get backing from the AF, (besides Funding) so why are we so different then the rest? 

[SunDog]

I've had a few missions where we worked with the Air Force, in concert with other entities. The briefings sure didn't SOUND like we were part of the Air Force.  Nothing negative, and all very professional on their part, but it was clear CAP was just another of the non-USAF groups helping out with the effort.  CAP wasn't in the Air Force fold, so to speak.  We don't do MARSA, don't formate, have different crew rest rules, different employment rules (IFR crew limitations, over-water restrictions, etc.) - and we spent some time sorting out what was allowed, what needed a waiver/permissions, things like that.  Just not the same organization.

Does any of that matter IRT uniforms? I dunno.  Personally, subjectively, I don't feel a close association/affinity with USAF as a CAP member.  Nothing wrong with AF blues - as good as any other uniform, except for our chunky and hairy folks. Man on the street is probably gonna think we're USAF.  I don't wear my old sage green nomex - went to blue, just for my own comfort level; I'm not in the Air Force anymore, I'm in CAP, and would probably prefer a distinct CAP appearance.  Right now we have that option, so it's cool.  Don't want to rip the blues off anyone's back - just don't see the strength of connection to Air Force as a reason to justify wearing them.

[antdetroitwallyball]

The only reason I can see that folks want to switch to them is this: It just shows that we have a link to our parent organization.  There is no purpose, no reason, no logic to us switching over. Even though 95% of the US military does not use BDUs on a regular basis, they are still used by various LEOs and other organizations. There was no real reason for the AF to switch either. There was no tactical or strategic advantage to using that uniform. They don't need to hide; where there is an airplane, there usually is a bunch of airmen running around servicing it. Admin folks don't need to blend in to their environment (although they sometimes do). I can't see any reason the AF NEEDED to change over to a digital pattern, and there is absolutely NO REASON we NEED to. The main proponents of the change are the cadets (83%) who think they are tak-ti-kewl, and the remaining 17% are divided among seniors who either think the same way or are sick of paying for cheaper knock-offs that don't last. At first, I wanted them to the point I went and got a set and put CAP insignia on it and found a pair of boots for cheap when I heard the "news" that the new uniform would be forthcoming SOON. Two years later it's still on the table (under the table and  buried under someone's shoes, really) and I have sold them and invested in more BDUs.

Very well stated. :clap: :clap:

However, when I wear the modified USAF uniform while serving in CAP, I am not a poseur, because I am not pretending to be something I am not.  I am an officer in the Civil Air Patrol, the volunteer Auxiliary of the United States Air Force.  I am proud of that connection with the Air Force.  Were we to lose it, I think we would be finished as an organisation.

I also agree.

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF.

True, but an irelavent argument.

It doesn't hurt my feelings that I'm not a part of the "team" because the work we do, mostly independent of the Air Force, is worthwhile and productive. I feel a little cheated that we help guide a number of outstanding young adults into ROTC, Air Guard, and Air Force Academy without much support from them, but in the long run, they don't factor into what I do for CAP and couldn't care less if they want me on their team or not. I certainly don't care if I wear their uniform or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the USAF has never officially used language in recent times describing CAP as part of the "team." This is unlike the Coast Guard, which regularly and explicitly refers to "Team Coast Guard" as "AD, Reservists, Civilian employees, and Auxiliarists." CG AUX  IS part of the CG, we are not a non-profit. Our applications are processed directly through OPM, just like any other federal worker. Auxies where THE same exact uniform as the active duty, with only very minor differences. Does the CG worry that because Auxies wear the same uniform that we will all turn into posers and try to pass ourselves off as something we are not? No, because there has really never been a major problem. I personally feel that I am more "Coast Guard" than most of the CG reservists I know, simply because I spend more time working CG units doing active duty work. I don't carry a gun, but that is pretty much the only difference between myself and the active duty E3-E4's I work alongside. I very confident that the majority of the general public simply thinks I'm AD when I'm out on the water working with the AD guys.

However, I have never, ever used this for personal advantage. I never tell anyone that I'm a veteran, I never try to get out of traffic tickets or get vet discounts at stores. I don't wear my uniform outside of official business.

And my observations are that the majority of auxiliarists are the same as me in this regard.

My point is: In theory, CAP could be uniformed identically to the AD USAF and be made much closer in appearance to Ma Blue and yet have no major poser issues. The CG AUX has been around longer than CAP. However, it seems like CAP has much more of an issues with posers. Posers come from people not accepting CAPs role in assisting the USAF. Why CAP has a bigger issue with this is beyond me, and why the USAF seems more paranoid the the USCG about this issue is also perplexing.

I'm fine with whatever uniform we wear,  but it needs to have some connection to the USAF if we are performing work for them in an official capacity.

INHO, as long as the USAF is sticking AFJROTC kids in ABUs (which, let us be honest, is the ultimate form of officially sanctioned poser-ness), I fail to understand why CAP can't be trusted to wear the ABU responsibly.

[Storm Chaser]

As someone who's still in the USAF, I can say that we don't need to wear the same uniform in order to be part of USAF. In fact, Air Force civilians are considered part of the Total Force (Active, Guard, Reserve, Civilians) and they don't wear uniforms at all.

However, AF civilians are considered part of the Total Force, this is true.  But we are not, not on any AF documentation/website I have seen recently.  I have seen AF civilians recognised by the Air Force, and they are eligible to receive medals for their service that are very close counterparts to active AF decs...which we are not eligible to receive.

An AF civil service office worker is considered part of the Total Force, but a CAP volunteer is not.

If we're not part of the Air Force "Total Force", as you state, then why is it such a big deal that we wear the same uniform as the rest of the Air Force? Isn't that putting 'the cart before the horse'? We should continue to focus on accomplishing those missions mandated by Congress and in support of the Air Force overall mission; on being a contributing part of the Air Force "Total Force". Instead, we keep having these discussions about uniforms, awards, insignias, promotions, etc.

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this. I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do. Let's not forget that.

[antdetroitwallyball]

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this. I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do.

I totally agree with you regarding mission coming before uniform, but as you yourself stated, the uniform is still important.

1) It makes us look professional (when worn properly)
2) Wearing it should remind us to take our work seriously, when in the public eye.

I'm fine with CAP "looking like the USAF." What I think crosses the line is when I start to see people adding on ridiculous 1900+ hour packs with all this takikool gear that is just extra weight. My squadron has one cadet that is big on this, and I sometimes just question where he comes up with the money to even afford all the gear...

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

If we're not part of the Air Force "Total Force", as you state, then why is it such a big deal that we wear the same uniform as the rest of the Air Force? Isn't that putting 'the cart before the horse'? We should continue to focus on accomplishing those missions mandated by Congress and in support of the Air Force overall mission; on being a contributing part of the Air Force "Total Force".

If we were a part of the "Total Force" - and I believe we once were, decades ago (prior to the 1990s) - I think the discussion on whether we should/should not wear the AF-type uniform would be moot.

There are other things within the organization that have priority over these, yet every discussion seems to revert to this.

I think many of us who remember the "old days" are still smarting over the removal of blue shoulder marks and metal grade insignia, which is where a lot of the feeling of disconnect from the Air Force comes from.  It's not just that - replacement of LO's with SD's, then cancelling those; very, very few AF personnel at exercises/missions (in my AOR); the virtual demise of CAP-RAP; the non-information about us to the AF (which is without excuse: http://capmembers.com/cap_university/cap-familiarization-course/ - there is nothing stopping any AF or CAP member from taking this) and of course the rumoured and apocryphal "trolling for salutes" - but I believe there is still a lot of that feeling throughout the organisation.

I think it comes back to uniform issues because they are the most visible connection John Q. Public sees with CAP and the AF.

I wear my CAP Air Force-style uniform proudly, but I didn't join CAP to wear an Air Force uniform; I joined because I believe in the mission, I believe in the contribution that we, as volunteers, can and do make. What we wear, while important, is not as relevant as what we do. Let's not forget that.

You make a valid point.  However, I had to take a medical discharge from the ANG, and I viewed CAP as my way to continue my service to the Air Force.  Maybe I would not have continued with CAP had I been able to do 20-and-out with the ANG.  I do not know.

But as for what we do...I think the Air Force is largely ignorant of the many ways we could help them.