Who has been the youngest wing commander?

[Cindi]

I know Hal DuPont was young when he became the wing commander in Florida. I found a picture of the current or maybe now former Rhode Island wing commander. I believe he was 24 when he took the job. Anyone know of anyone younger than 24 who has been a wing commander? Congratulations to Colonel Benjamin F Emerick for rising up in the ranks so fast!

[Eclipse]

^ He was indicated at the time as the youngest.

His tenure was challenged and he office after about two years.

He did not retain his grade of Col and now serves as a Major.

It does not appear he has been active since stepping down.

[Cindi]

^ He was indicated at the time as the youngest.

His tenure was challenged and he office after about two years.

He did not retain his grade of Col and now serves as a Major.

It does not appear he has been active since stepping down.

Thanks for the information Eclipse. So 24 it is! It must of been tough for him at that age to be a wing commander. Kudos to him for giving it a shot!

[NIN]

<insert obligatory Rhode Island joke here>

[Eclipse]

Thanks for the info. I have been in CAP for ten years, and I am the youngest wing commander in CAP. I am only 24. The change of command was June 1st and I look forward to the challenges ahead.
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BENJAMIN F. EMERICK, COL, CAP
Commander, Rhode Island Wing

Honestly, there is no way someone with, at most, 6 years as a senior member is going to be
prepared for what it takes to be a Wing CC, even in a small wing.

Anything else not withstanding, whoever made that decision was not thinking in the best interest of Maj Emerick,
and we probably lost someone who would have continued to be a valuable asset to CAP, not to mention
possibly a very successful CAP leader at the wing and maybe even above, once he was properly prepared and experienced.

[Cindi]

Thanks for the info. I have been in CAP for ten years, and I am the youngest wing commander in CAP. I am only 24. The change of command was June 1st and I look forward to the challenges ahead.
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BENJAMIN F. EMERICK, COL, CAP
Commander, Rhode Island Wing

Honestly, there is no way someone with, at most, 6 years as a senior member is going to be
prepared for what it takes to be a Wing CC, even in a small wing.

Anything else not withstanding, whoever made that decision was not thinking in the best interest of Maj Emerick,
and we probably lost someone who would have continued to be a valuable asset to CAP, not to mention
possibly a very successful CAP leader at the wing and maybe even above, once he was properly prepared and experienced.

Well said.

[RiverAux]

I seriously doubt CAP has any records of the ages of past wing commanders.  He probably is the youngest recent Wing Commander and I suspect would be in the running for the youngest ever, but I don't think it is something that is likely to be proved anytime soon. 

A 24-year old squadron commander?  Yeah, I could see that happening and going ok, but not a Wing Commander.  No matter what your age I'd say you need at least 5 years of regular membership, a few years as a squadron commander, and maybe a few years on Wing staff.   No way to do it that young. 

[ColonelJack]

I have to ask ... how in the Nine Happy Worlds does any 24-year-old become a wing commander?  Who made that incredibly strange decision?  How is anyone of that age and experience in CAP even remotely qualified to be a wing commander?

Enquiring minds deserve to know.

Jack

[Storm Chaser]

I have to ask ... how in the Nine Happy Worlds does any 24-year-old become a wing commander?  Who made that incredibly strange decision?  How is anyone of that age and experience in CAP even remotely qualified to be a wing commander?

Enquiring minds deserve to know.

Jack

I was thinking the same thing. Who, in their right mind, would select someone for that position with so little CAP and life experience? It doesn't make sense. Even if he was quite talented and successful for his age, he couldn't have possibly been prepared for that challenge at 24.

[RiverAux]

It is entirely possible that in a very small wing he was the only person willing and technically qualified to do it. 

They've only got 97 senior members in the entire wing.  Figure only half are active and that maybe 5-10 of them meet the minimum qualifications and it could happen. 

Maybe its not entirely nuts in this specific situation though I can't see it happening anywhere else. 

[Cindi]

It is entirely possible that in a very small wing he was the only person willing and technically qualified to do it. 

They've only got 97 senior members in the entire wing.  Figure only half are active and that maybe 5-10 of them meet the minimum qualifications and it could happen. 

Maybe its not entirely nuts in this specific situation though I can't see it happening anywhere else.

Looks like a nice little wing. I just wish I could locate Rhode Island on my map of the US. Here are some more statistics from 2012 for the Rhode Island Wing:

[Eclipse]

Why are you centering all your posts?

[Cindi]

You no like them centered? I un-centered them, looks about the same left justified as centered. As long as they are not censored! 

[Storm Chaser]

With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing! 

Do they really need their own Col wing commander? Even in the Air Force, wing commander grade is partly determined by the size of the wing. A small wing gets a Col (O-6), while some larger wings get a Brig Gen (O-7). Perhaps small CAP wings like Rhode Island should have a Lt Col as wing commander.

[Spaceman3750]

With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing! 

Do they really need their own Col wing commander? Even in the Air Force, wing commander grade is partly determined by the size of the wing. A small wing gets a Col (O-6), while some larger wings get a Brig Gen (O-7). Perhaps small CAP wings like Rhode Island should have a Lt Col as wing commander.

The size of the wing doesn't change the wing CC's responsibilities. If anything, it just means there's fewer people to help out.

[Eclipse]

The size of the wing doesn't change the wing CC's responsibilities. If anything, it just means there's fewer people to help out.

Like any good organization, it's about the economies of scale. 

NER could probably function fine as a wing with the states being Groups.

That's less CIs, less administrative overhead, less WAs.

The groups in our wing are larger by 2-3xs and have more scope of responsibility.

[Storm Chaser]

With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing! 

Do they really need their own Col wing commander? Even in the Air Force, wing commander grade is partly determined by the size of the wing. A small wing gets a Col (O-6), while some larger wings get a Brig Gen (O-7). Perhaps small CAP wings like Rhode Island should have a Lt Col as wing commander.

The size of the wing doesn't change the wing CC's responsibilities. If anything, it just means there's fewer people to help out.

The magnitude of their responsibilities does change. And so does the amount of people and subordinate units they supervise. Heck, there are group commanders in Florida Wing with a larger area of responsibility and many more resources to oversee.

[NIN]

Heck, there are group commanders in Florida Wing with a larger area of responsibility and many more resources to oversee.

Yet, they didn't get a voice on the National Board.

[mdickinson]

I have to ask ... how in the Nine Happy Worlds does any 24-year-old become a wing commander?  Who made that incredibly strange decision?  How is anyone of that age and experience in CAP even remotely qualified to be a wing commander?

I was thinking the same thing. Who, in their right mind, would select someone for that position with so little CAP and life experience? It doesn't make sense. Even if he was quite talented and successful for his age, he couldn't have possibly been prepared for that challenge at 24.

Col Christopher Hayden, the Northeast Region Commander at the time, was the one who selected him. So that's who thought it was a good idea.

Note to high-speeds who would like to someday wear birds on their collar: move to Rhode Island (or Delaware). Your chance of ever making colonel will go up about 500%.

Below is the bio of the then-colonel, found on a cached version of the RIWG web site from 2011.
Doing some subtraction, it appears this wunderkind, born in 1987,

• joined as a cadet at age 14
• turned senior and took command of a squadron at age 19
• evidently moved up from FO to TFO to SFO during his first two years as a senior [edit: or made Spaatz at 19 before taking command?]
• made Captain at 21
• was promoted to Major 3 years later at age 24
• and within a year the wing commander spot opened up and he was selected.

(I also find it amazing he was able to amass 2000 flight hours by age 24.)

COLONEL BENJAMIN F EMERICK is Commander, Rhode Island Wing CAP, Quonset Air National Guard Base, North Kingstown, Rhode Island. The Rhode Island Wing is comprised [sic] of 4 squadrons and over 230 volunteer personnel. The Wing is responsible for
conducting Operational support to the State of Rhode Island, Youth Education, and Aerospace Education programs.

Colonel Emerick has commanded at the Squadron and Wing level. He is a former Civil Air Patrol cadet. He has held various positions at the squadron and wing levels. He currently holds a masters rating in cadet programs. Col Emerick is also a mission and command pilot with over 2000 hours. Colonel Emerick has been an active member since 2001.

EDUCATION:

• 2007 Squadron Leadership School
• 2007 Corporate Learning Course
• 2007 Training Leaders of Cadets
• 2007 Officer Basic School
• 2010 NER Staff College

ASSIGNMENTS:

• September 2006– July 2010, Pilot, Commander, C182T, 102nd Squadron, North Smithfield Air National
  Guard Base, Rhode Island
• April 2007 - August 2008, Director of Cadet Programs, Rhode Island Wing, Quonset Air National Guard
  Base, Rhode Island
• January 2011 - June 2011, Personnel Officer, Rhode Island Wing, Quonset Air National Guard Base, Rhode
  Island
• June 2011 - present, Commander, Rhode Island Wing, Quonset Air National Guard Base, Rhode Island

FLIGHT INFORMATION:
Rating: Command Pilot
Flight Hours: More than 2,000
Aircraft flown: C-172 and C-182

MAJOR AWARDS AND DECORATIONS:
Commanders Commendation (with 4 Cluster)
Disaster Relief (with 1 V Cluster)
Unit Citation
Search and Rescue
Command Service
Leadership
Recruiter
Ten Year Service

EFFECTIVE DATE OF PROMOTION:
Colonel 4 June 2011

[ColonelJack]

Col Christopher Hayden, the Northeast Region Commander at the time, was the one who selected him. So that's who thought it was a good idea.

Col. Hayden thought a 24-year-old would make a good wing commander?  Was there literally no one else available?  I don't know Col. Hayden, but I would have to question the judgment involved in promoting someone who was not ready for that kind of rank and responsibility to that rank and responsibility.  (Not that Col. Hayden, or anyone else, really cares what I think.)

I've heard of high-speed, but this guy was at warp speed.

Why does the expression, "He bit off more than he could chew" come to mind?

Jack

[mdickinson]

With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing! 

So since their wing has 12 vans and 2 aircraft... your squadron should have 6 vans and 1 plane!

Do they really need their own Col wing commander? ...  Perhaps small CAP wings like Rhode Island should have a Lt Col as wing commander.

Each wing commander is a voting member of the CAP Command Council. It's probably important to have everyone in that council on equal footing.

It's kinda like the senate. The two senators from Rhode Island each represent about 1% as many people as the two senators from California... but they have the same number of votes!

[Eclipse]

Each wing commander is a voting member of the CAP Command Council. It's probably important to have everyone in that council on equal footing.

It's kinda like the senate. The two senators from Rhode Island each represent about 1% as many people as the two senators from California... but they have the same number of votes!

This is not universally viewed as "a good thing" because it provides an equal "voice" to an unequal group.
One can certainly understand why the framers went this way, but at the time of the "Big 13", the spread between
the largest and the smallest colonies wasn't nearly as large.

I'd argue this is an issue in CAP as well as the US Senate.

A Wing CC with less members in the entire Wing, then some Wings have members on staff, is not likely to
to have any idea what the challenges and requirements are to run a wing the size of Texas or California, nor
most of the other wings, and therefore is not going to be able to vote knowledgeably on much beyond his borders.
He doesn't have the critical mass of membership to run encampments of proper scale (thus the ever-popular Tri-Wing),
nor provide PD training or opportunities on the generally accepted "proper" scale of a CAP wing.

As noted, just about any member could fast-burn from slick-sleeve to wing staff since there isn't much in the
way of a staircase to climb, and multi-echelon staff-posting would have to be the norm just to fill the mandated
positions.

A "Wing" with 97 members is a unitgroup not a wing.
Edit: RIWG has 211 members, or did as of Legislative day 2012. So that's a Group, though filtered for
empty shirts, the number is likely less by at least 1/3rd.

Edit 2: Actually, they have 164 members

And for the record, there's no 19 year old I've ever met who is ready to run a squadron, fast-burner or not.
CAP knowledge is not enough to direct adults, especially adults who aren't compelled to stick around.
Anyone who has ever seen a minty-fresh Spaatz-Captain try to herd adult cats knows how painful that
can be for all involved.

Also, interestingly, at the time he assumed command, he'd been in CAP 5 years but had not attained Spaatz.
I have no idea what grade he attained as a cadet, but any cadet destined to be the "youngest wing CC"
should have left cadet life with 3 diamonds, or at least 2 and a strike-out going down swinging.

Assuming he was a fast-burner / high-speed cadet, then whoever thought it was a good idea for him to dark-side at 19 did him,
and CAP, a big disservice not having him reach for Spaatz.

[Storm Chaser]

With those stats, it makes you wonder why Rhode Island is a wing at all. I mean, my squadron is half the size of their entire wing! 

So since their wing has 12 vans and 2 aircraft... your squadron should have 6 vans and 1 plane!

No, we don't quite have six vans; only one. But we do have one airplane and 98 members, as of today. Maybe our squadron commander should be a Col as well. 

[Eclipse]

Once could also ask what a wing that is only 37 miles wide and 48 miles long is doing with 12 vehicles.

[Eclipse]

Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

[mdickinson]

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter
RIWG has
82 Senior Members
82 Cadets
10 vehicles
2 Planes

Wow. If both the 2012 and 2014 numbers are accurate, that means they lost 22% of the wing's membership in just two years. Ouch.

At least they still have plenty of vans. They've got, let's see... one van for every 16 members.

(Imagine how many vans your wing would have if there was one for every 16 members! Where would you put them all?!)

[Eclipse]

Wow. If both the 2012 and 2014 numbers are accurate, that means they lost 22% of the wing's membership in just two years. Ouch.

In their defense  a lot of wings are seeing program shrinkage.  After a few years of growth, or at least relative stability, the line
is starting to face South again.  I know we're seeing that in my wing.

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

[Storm Chaser]

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

[Eclipse]

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

I agree completely, and continue to ring the bell, both here and locally, to little avail.

I assert that CAP needs to do a National "ALL STOP" and concentrate on recruiting for a 6-month period.
Real, focused, results-based (and required) recruiting.  Mandating every squadron add "x" members or
grow by "x" percentage (grow is probably better then add, since that entails some attention to retention.

Few members are much value to CAP in the first 6-months to a year, and most take 1-3 months
from first contact to full membership, which means if we started tomorrow, we see no results until
next year, and that's conservative.

That doesn't mean we stop looking for people, or hold up cadets, but every moment wasted on
anything but status quo is directed at recruiting, and that includes putting empty shirts in
a separate category so we can see the real numbers.

It takes a year to grow a new member, literally.  How much longer do we put this off?

[ProdigalJim]

Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

Um...my squadron has

77 Senior Members
65 Cadets
1 Plane
2 vehicles (temporarily)

Wow, I had no idea. And I can't imagine myself trying to command a Wing; I'm durn near twice Maj Emerick's age. I think that guy got a bad deal...with the right progression and mentoring and so forth he might have been able to stay and be active for a long time.

[PHall]

Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

Um...my squadron has

77 Senior Members
65 Cadets
1 Plane
2 vehicles (temporarily)

Wow, I had no idea. And I can't imagine myself trying to command a Wing; I'm durn near twice Maj Emerick's age. I think that guy got a bad deal...with the right progression and mentoring and so forth he might have been able to stay and be active for a long time.

He was "used" by a Region Commander who wanted somebody who wouldn't cause him trouble.

[MSG Mac]

Not as bad as the PAWG Commander making a freshly turned 21 year old a Group/CC with the grade of Major in the mid 90's.

[SarDragon]

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

NO!

We're doing OK recruiting.

We're NOT doing OK keeping the people we're recruiting - RETENTION.

Every time I  go to a CAWG Conference, the wing commanders gives us the same story - we recruited X number of people, and Y number of people didn't stick around past the first year. The usual statistic is that if we kept half of those members who went away, we would grow by 2-3 percent, each and every year.

The other telling statistic is that half of the cadet population has been in CAP less than a year.

[ColonelJack]

Also, interestingly, at the time he assumed command, he'd been in CAP 5 years but had not attained Spaatz.
I have no idea what grade he attained as a cadet, but any cadet destined to be the "youngest wing CC"
should have left cadet life with 3 diamonds, or at least 2 and a strike-out going down swinging.

Assuming he was a fast-burner / high-speed cadet, then whoever thought it was a good idea for him to dark-side at 19 did him,
and CAP, a big disservice not having him reach for Spaatz.

The not-so-sharply-focused picture of then-Col Emerick in this thread shows his highest cadet award was ... Mitchell.

Not Spaatz, Eaker, or even Earhart.  Mitchell. 

Unless (as is stated) the region CC wanted to make sure he would have no dissent or trouble out of RIWG, there is absolutely no reason to ruin a young CAP officer's career by promoting him beyond his maturity and capabilities as quickly as this happened.  Whatever bad tidings befell RIWG during Emerick's term as CC, the ultimate responsibility for them should be laid at Col Hayden's doorstep.

And then, of course, there's the drama of the relieved/terminated RIWG CC to make room for Emerick, and the ruin of another - more mature - officer's career.

This is, of course, my personal and humble opinion.  Your mileage may vary.

Jack

[Elmer]

(I also find it amazing he was able to amass 2000 flight hours by age 24.)

I had a young SM (under 21) that had acculumiated about this many hours.  He had found a job ferrying aircraft.

[FW]

At the time of Maj. Emmerick's appointment, the RIWG was in tremendous turmoil.  He was probably chosen because he was one of the few senior members willing to take the job. Unfortunately, he was not really qualified to handle it.

Being the wing commander of the smallest wing in the country (4 squadrons and wing HQ) is an almost impossible task. It requires all the staff and administrative burdens of larger wings; without the manpower.  It also requires the leadership skills of a mature and experienced person to handle such a position.  It was an unfortunate situation for all concerned. IMHO the, then, region commander was put in a difficult place.

[Private Investigator]

At the time of Maj. Emmerick's appointment, the RIWG was in tremendous turmoil.  He was probably chosen because he was one of the few senior members willing to take the job. Unfortunately, he was not really qualified to handle it.

Being the wing commander of the smallest wing in the country (4 squadrons and wing HQ) is an almost impossible task. It requires all the staff and administrative burdens of larger wings; without the manpower.  It also requires the leadership skills of a mature and experienced person to handle such a position.  It was an unfortunate situation for all concerned. IMHO the, then, region commander was put in a difficult place.

It depends on what is the benchmark of a good Wing Commander is. Talent is just that, talent and talent goes a long way. Some people you meet you know will be a Wing Commander and maybe a National Commander one day. Others are just that. "Others".

Two ways to approach the Wing King job, one is to continue with the staff you have and express your "Commanders Intent". Two, is fire everyone and for example if you were SQCC of SQ4, bring your SQ4 Staff in as your 'new' Wing Staff. 

[NIN]

At least they still have plenty of vans. They've got, let's see... one van for every 16 members.

(Imagine how many vans your wing would have if there was one for every 16 members! Where would you put them all?!)

If they're 12 pax vans, and figuring on retention/active numbers, sounds like they have a seat for everybody in the wing in one go!

[Private Investigator]

^ He was indicated at the time as the youngest.

His tenure was challenged and he office after about two years.

He did not retain his grade of Col and now serves as a Major.

It does not appear he has been active since stepping down.

Thanks for the information Eclipse. So 24 it is! It must of been tough for him at that age to be a wing commander. Kudos to him for giving it a shot!

From what I heard, the average tour for a CAP Wing Commander is 23 months. So he did average.   

[ZigZag911]

During Col Hayden's tenure as NER CC he always relied on his wing CC review board...to the best of my knowledge, in every instance he presented the board's recommendations to the National CC in the order he was given them (top 3).

He also spoke to the top 3 candidates (per the review board's ranking) personally before bringing the matter to the National CC.

All of this is public knowledge in NER, at least for those who had any reason to know or care (wing & region staff folks).

He instituted these practices when he took over in August 2009...in the immediate aftermath, as you may recall, of Pineda's shenanigans in appointing wing and region commanders.

All that the sad case of the former RI wing CC, Maj Emerick, really shows is that any system, however well intentioned, is subject to human error. Evidently Emrick really impressed the review board (or at least a majority of it)...so much so that they decided, erroneously in hindsight (which of course is 20/20!) that his youth and inexperience would be more than balanced by his energy and enthusiasm.

Unfortunately for the wing, the wing commander and CAP, it did not work out that way.

Finally, I have it on good authority that, during Emerick's tenure as wing CC, RI WG and its wing commander were repeatedly offered mentoring, including the temporary assignment of experienced personnel to guide their own people.

These offers were made by NER and several of RI's neighboring wings.

In every instance, the response was, as I understand, "No thanks, we can handle it".

In fact, they could not.

Pride goeth before a fall.

[FW]

It depends on what is the benchmark of a good Wing Commander is. Talent is just that, talent and talent goes a long way. Some people you meet you know will be a Wing Commander and maybe a National Commander one day. Others are just that. "Others".

Two ways to approach the Wing King job, one is to continue with the staff you have and express your "Commanders Intent". Two, is fire everyone and for example if you were SQCC of SQ4, bring your SQ4 Staff in as your 'new' Wing Staff. 

It is difficult to do that when the typical RIWG squadron staff is two or three individuals plus the commander and deputy.  How I understand things there; everyone who has a position of responsibility in a squadron is also a member of wing staff.  80 or so members can only go so far before they get burned out.  Can it be done? of course.

I understand things are getting back on track now. 

During Col Hayden's tenure as NER CC he always relied on his wing CC review board...to the best of my knowledge, in every instance he presented the board's recommendations to the National CC in the order he was given them (top 3).

He also spoke to the top 3 candidates (per the review board's ranking) personally before bringing the matter to the National CC.

All of this is public knowledge in NER, at least for those who had any reason to know or care (wing & region staff folks).

He instituted these practices when he took over in August 2009...in the immediate aftermath, as you may recall, of Pineda's shenanigans in appointing wing and region commanders.

All that the sad case of the former RI wing CC, Maj Emerick, really shows is that any system, however well intentioned, is subject to human error. Evidently Emrick really impressed the review board (or at least a majority of it)...so much so that they decided, erroneously in hindsight (which of course is 20/20!) that his youth and inexperience would be more than balanced by his energy and enthusiasm.

Unfortunately for the wing, the wing commander and CAP, it did not work out that way.

Finally, I have it on good authority that, during Emerick's tenure as wing CC, RI WG and its wing commander were repeatedly offered mentoring, including the temporary assignment of experienced personnel to guide their own people.

These offers were made by NER and several of RI's neighboring wings.

In every instance, the response was, as I understand, "No thanks, we can handle it".

In fact, they could not.

Pride goeth before a fall.

"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

The NER region commander made a decision; the best one at the time.  When things were going wrong, the offer of help should have been mandated; not made as a suggestion. It is the region commander's responsibility to insure wing commanders do their job. Col Hayden was in office for 2 years before appointing this individual for the job.  By then, he should have had the experience to realize what was needed, and to make the necessary changes before disaster struck.

If a wing commander does not recognize their weaknesses, shame on them; If the region commander does not take corrective action in the proper time, shame on him.  I've known wing commanders lasting just weeks.  This situation was, to say the least, a sad time for the wing, NER, and CAP.  Youth and talent are one thing; maturity and wisdom are another.  A successful wing commander does not need to be young; they do need the rest. .

[Eclipse]

"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.

Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

[a2capt]

Pineda was removed 2-Oct, 2007. Three years and some months, well before Boards would have met for a June 2011 appointment.

[Mitchell 1969]

Correcting the corrections:

Per the 2014 Legislative Day Newsletter: http://www.capmembers.com/media/cms/RI_Newsletter_12528B4C69F45.pdf

RIWG has

82 Senior Members
82 Cadets

10 vehicles
2 Planes

They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.

[Cindi]

They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.

Seems like in Rhode Island, they could pretty much walk to any place they needed to be. 

[Mitchell 1969]

They could pretty much move the entire Wing in corporate vehicles in 2 trips.

Seems like in Rhode Island, they could pretty much walk to any place they needed to be. 

Even better, then.  They can walk, use the vans for the luggage.

[FW]

"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.

Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...

[Cindi]

Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...

Speaking of dates, CAP had a chance to go in a new direction on August 18, 2011 in Louisville, Kentucky but the people that could of made it happen were just interested in some chat room postings. Sad.

[Eclipse]

"Pineda's Shinanagins"? He was out of the picture by 2007. Selection boards were the rule for years, and region commanders ended up picking the best possible candidate, not necessarily the one picked by the selection board. "Politics" were always part of the equation. It still is!

HWSRN was National Commander until Oct 2007.
Relieved of duty 2 Oct after being suspended in August.

Thanks for giving the exact date.  I remember it quite well, however the point made is "HWSRN" had nothing to do with the selection process, or what followed with this case.  "HE" was long gone by the time the appointment, term, and resignation of Maj Emerick as RIWG/CC took place.

We really have to stop blaming long gone demons and begin to really understand the reasons why we still deal with these problems.  We should have fixed "this" years ago. I guess things are still being repeated...

^ That may be the case, and you were certainly closer to it then most of the posters here, but
the ramifications and ripples of his tenure lived on well passed his being voted off the island.

There was chaos and disquiet in Regions and Wings all over the country as people dropped back into
factions and scores were settled, wrongs righted, and more then a few resorted to Machiavellian practices.

NHQ is still referencing issues from that time in documents as the name and legacy is sandblasted off of uniforms and regulations.

When you consider the glacial way CAP makes changes, we aren't yet quite clear of that runway yet.

[a2capt]

Speaking of dates, CAP had a chance to go in a new direction on August 18, 2011 in Louisville, Kentucky but the people that could of made it happen were just interested in some chat room postings. Sad.

Oh, the irony.

[FW]

^^ The Machiavellian schemes of the last 9 years have created an environment which caused a major shift in the way we now do business. Until these new ways are really established, we won't get clear of that runway.

Cindi brings up a good point. We've had a few chances to make positive changes, some have already been made. Now the BoG will insure we continue on a successful path.  :angel:

[Cindi]

^^ The Machiavellian schemes of the last 9 years have created an environment which caused a major shift in the way we now do business. Until these new ways are really established, we won't get clear of that runway.

Cindi brings up a good point. We've had a few chances to make positive changes, some have already been made. Now the BoG will insure we continue on a successful path.  :angel:

Between you an me Fred we need to put the Air Force back in charge. Civil Air Patrol should be in the Air Force chain of command with the Air Force appointing an Air Force officer to run the show. You can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things (or even better ditch the CAP Corporation).  But the actual operating side should be under the direction of an Air Force officer and his staff. I remember when Maj. Gen. Walter ""Boom Boom Benney"" Bennett Putnam 1916-2010 was the National Commander. The seniors feared "Boom Boom Benney" but the cadets loved him. If you were a cadet and lucky enough to get a ride in his DC-3, he might call you into the cockpit to take the controls. Put an Air Force guy like "Boom Boom" in charge of the hen house and the roosters will get back in line in a hurry!

RIP Benney!

[Cindi]

It's a bird, its a plane...it's "Boom Boom Benney" flying in for a wing inspection!

[Eclipse]

You can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things

And which parts are those, exactly?

Also, how is a military commander going to have any more success herding volunteer cats then a civilian one?

Raise the bar?  Check?

Enforce the regs as written?  Check?

Lose 1/3rd of the membership the first 6 months?  Yep.

Just because the person "in charge" is carrying a CAC isn't going to change the G-A-S-F at the unit level.

Reboot CAP? I'm there.   Said so many times.

If you can just show me where we are going to get the replacements for 1/3rd+ of the membership who
decide they "didn't join the Army", I'll start making calls.

[Cindi]

You can still have the BOG or Wing Kings handle the corporate side of things

And which parts are those, exactly?

Also, how is a military commander going to have any more success herding volunteer cats then a civilian one?

Raise the bar?  Check?

Enforce the regs as written?  Check?

Lose 1/3rd of the membership the first 6 months.  Yep.

Just because the person "in charge" is carrying a CAC isn't going to change the G-A-S-F at the unit level.

Reboot CAP? I'm there.   Said so many times.

If you can just show me where we are going to get the replacements for 1/3rd+ of the membership who
decide they "didn't join the Army", I'll start making calls.

Its obvious I don't have all the answers. Going back to the "good ole days" is probably not a solution, just wishful thinking. But I got to sneak in some hysterical history.

[FW]

Before 1994, CAP was pretty much "controlled" by Ma Blue. All of the employees at NHq were AF civilians or military. The EX was AF as well.  We had a great network of CAP-USAF staff to provide oversight  and assistance to the membership. 

Times and budgets have changed significantly. We can't go back, so we must work with what we have. What we have, btw, is pretty good. We just need someone to know how to use it properly. Where that person comes from is not as important as where we can go as an Organization.  I'm an optimist about this.

[a2capt]

That. Yes. AF control will never happen again like it used to be.

At least the structure has a bit more protection from clowning around like Pineda was going to pull.

... and I wouldn't discount those who seemed just interested in some "chat room postings"..

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

A few bullet points from someone within RI Wing (for most of it anyway)

• I've known Maj Emerick since he was c/SSgt or c/TSgt Emerick when I rejoined CAP as a senior at the same squadron.


• He made his Mitchell in 19 months.


• He was given opportunities as a c/2d Lt by RI Wing that would normally be reserved for late Phase 3 or Phase 4 cadets in larger wings.


• He worked as a Flight Instructor and later as a private pilot for an old money family in RI. (for those wondering about the 2000 hours)


• His promotion to Capt at age 21 was based on his CFII rating. (I processed the paperwork for the Wing CC).


• There were 4 candidates for the Wing CC position. I was 1 of the 4 but had been serving in MA then CT Wings for almost 2 years.


• The only way I would have returned to RIWG at that point was if Maj Emerick or I had gotten the position. He asked me to return to RIWG and rebuild the non-existent IG program.


• During his CC term his work responsibilities for that same family increased dramatically.


• RI Wing was a mess when he took command.

Maj Emerick was an outstanding cadet and is an excellent CAP officer. I consider him a friend and I hope he finds a place to continue in CAP.

[Eclipse]

He made Mitchell and then stopped?

Also, some of those bullet points could be seen as negatives, especially in hindsight.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

He made Mitchell and then stopped?

Also, some of those bullet points could be seen as negatives, especially in hindsight.

That is correct about the Mitchell. I had a running joke with him and another cadet (who is now an A-10 driver) that the single pip on their collar kept telling me it was lonely.

I tried to keep that list to the facts. I assume you are mostly talking about bullet 3.

[Eclipse]

These:

• He made his Mitchell in 19 months.


• He was given opportunities as a c/2d Lt by RI Wing that would normally be reserved for late Phase 3 or Phase 4 cadets in larger wings.


• His promotion to Capt at age 21 was based on his CFII rating. (I processed the paperwork for the Wing CC).

If he fast-burned to Mitchell in 19 months, that means he must have just stopped progressing for at least 2 years, if not more.
A recent dark-sider who hasn't done anything but fly for two years isn't going to be a candidate on my list for Unit CC, Captain, or anything else.

Those opportunities at the wing level are probably the core of the issue - a young man with an aviation career ahead of him
gets into the pilot club early and the next thing you know he's a Wing CC.  I've seen this time and again where cadets
fast-burn and get attention, next thing you know they are acting like mini-seniors, even doing staff jobs they have no
business doing, and by the next year they are gone because there's is nothing left for them.

#3 above is there because it highlights why these advanced promotions are a bad idea.

The more I see this (from 50k feet, mind you), the more the disservice we did this young man becomes clear.

Had he progressed organically, we should be celebrating him as a Spaatz and "up and comer" not a "former member"

I hope he is able to find a place to come back as well.[/list]

[ZigZag911]

And with this I absolutely agree...Ben Emerick, who only wanted to help RI WG and CAP, was placed in an extremely difficult position...in many ways, not fair to him at all, even if he did volunteer for the job.

Hopefully when some time has passed, he'll be active again.

[Private Investigator]

It depends on what is the benchmark of a good Wing Commander is. Talent is just that, talent and talent goes a long way. Some people you meet you know will be a Wing Commander and maybe a National Commander one day. Others are just that. "Others".

Two ways to approach the Wing King job, one is to continue with the staff you have and express your "Commanders Intent". Two, is fire everyone and for example if you were SQCC of SQ4, bring your SQ4 Staff in as your 'new' Wing Staff. 

It is difficult to do that when the typical RIWG squadron staff is two or three individuals plus the commander and deputy.  How I understand things there; everyone who has a position of responsibility in a squadron is also a member of wing staff.  80 or so members can only go so far before they get burned out.  Can it be done? of course.

Good point sir. In different Group HQs I have been assigned too. GP1 is really SQ 123, Monday night you are the Squadron Personnel Officer and Wednesday night you are Group Admin/Personnel Officer and the meeting location is the same. On getting burned out some Commanders are good at having an interesting meeting every night. Others, IMHO, are over their heads as Commanders. A 12 page agenda is not a outline, they are in 'script' mode.

[Eclipse]

^ All that administrative circle walking is a waste of time to maintain someone's text-book view of
CAP's structure, which is standing like a 10 foot seawall in the face of 40 foot waves.  Despite the
waves over-topping, and everyone getting flooded out, you just keep shoring it up on the
backside, instead of either making it bigger or building levees to re-route the floods.

All the while telling people "this is how it has to be".

Good companies and organizations adjust their structure to address reality and maximize
the economies of scale.

This is literally the opposite of that.

CAP-USAF's recent restructuring, while painful, maximized the few personnel left on the roster
by essentially ignoring the CAP Regions and assigning LRADOs based on their geographic
proximity to their AOR.  Not perfect, but it addresses reality and puts aside artificial borders.

[Private Investigator]

• There were 4 candidates for the Wing CC position. I was 1 of the 4 but had been serving in MA then CT Wings for almost 2 years.

I find it interesting that a small Wing had four (4) candidates for WGCC. The last two selections for CAWG CC was six (6) candidates. HIWG usually has zero (0) candidates. WAWG, ORWG and IDWG gets one or two.

If I take a SWAG, I am betting that a Wing Commander position that gets several applications will likely last a four year term. A postion with one or two applications, will likely change hands in two years or less. Hence, the 23 month average for a Wing Commander.   

[Eclipse]

An interesting thought, probably holds true on the mean.  More applicants = more (theoretically) qualified staff who are
actually interested.

The curve is thrown off, however, by the wings who have certain members who apply every time there's an opening,
either "because you can't in if you don't play" or "just to voice my opinion".

[Private Investigator]

I concur.

[FW]

   
• There were 4 candidates for the Wing CC position. I was 1 of the 4 but had been serving in MA then CT Wings for almost 2 years.

I find it interesting that a small Wing had four (4) candidates for WGCC. The last two selections for CAWG CC was six (6) candidates. HIWG usually has zero (0) candidates. WAWG, ORWG and IDWG gets one or two.

If I take a SWAG, I am betting that a Wing Commander position that gets several applications will likely last a four year term. A postion with one or two applications, will likely change hands in two years or less. Hence, the 23 month average for a Wing Commander.   

I think it was admirable there were 4 candidates for the position (5% of the senior membership of the wing). 

^ All that administrative circle walking is a waste of time to maintain someone's text-book view of
CAP's structure, which is standing like a 10 foot seawall in the face of 40 foot waves.  Despite the
waves over-topping, and everyone getting flooded out, you just keep shoring it up on the
backside, instead of either making it bigger or building levees to re-route the floods.

All the while telling people "this is how it has to be".

Good companies and organizations adjust their structure to address reality and maximize
the economies of scale.

This is literally the opposite of that.

CAP-USAF's recent restructuring, while painful, maximized the few personnel left on the roster
by essentially ignoring the CAP Regions and assigning LRADOs based on their geographic
proximity to their AOR.  Not perfect, but it addresses reality and puts aside artificial borders.

It would not take much to become more flexible with Wing Staffing.  It just takes a little imagination. The IC system shrinks and grows according to need; so should 20-1.  Just a thought...

[Eclipse]

It would not take much to become more flexible with Wing Staffing.  It just takes a little imagination. The IC system shrinks and grows according to need; so should 20-1.  Just a thought...

It's not a 20-1 issue, though that is a piece of it, it's a charter issue.

A wing should be required to have "x" members, not be tied to a specific state.  If a given state isn't big enough, you start combining them
until you have the critical mass for a "wing".

Otherwise, all that administrative overhead and expense is just a waste.  A Region of tiny states would have more resources to pool
less "homefield" background noise, and better ability to provide services.

Turn NER into NEW.  Done.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

Turn NER into NEW.  Done.

NY, NJ and PA Wings might have an issue with that.

[Eclipse]

Fair enough, shuffle the decks and reorg with the wings too small to justify a wing into the new "NER",
and reorg MER with the larger ones.

Or whatever works.

Bottom line, no wing should have less members then any given unit in another state.

[RiverAux]

Yeah, it does cause a minor irritation to my sensibilities that we have such disparities in Wing size but I don't think its a significant problem when all the other CAP issues are looked at.  It probably would be to CAP's benefit to re-examine our large-scale organizational structure.  I've yet to see any value in having Regions at all since their only purpose is to have a staff college and for the Region Commander to select a Wing Commander.  Other than that, they're useless.  But, on the other hand, they don't cause many problems so getting rid of them wouldn't be a priority.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

I don't disagree. Considering our shift to disaster relief, if we were to review the region structure we'd be better served to align with FEMA's 10 region structure. NER regional DR missions span 3 FEMA Regions (I NE; II NY, NJ, PR & VI; III PA). Can you say PAPERWORK?

RI Wing unofficial motto. "If we weren't a state, we'd be a group"

[MSG Mac]

Fair enough, shuffle the decks and reorg with the wings too small to justify a wing into the new "NER",
and reorg MER with the larger ones.

Or whatever works.

Bottom line, no wing should have less members then any given unit in another state.

The problem with that solution is several of these wings are receiving state grants or have Memorandums of Understanding with their states that bring in $$$. NH Wing twice threatened to end appropriations when long time NHWG members (Schollaman and Grey) who lived just over the state lines were appointed as Wing Kings.  Both were removed within a week of appointment and told there would be no record of their being Wing CC's. What do you think states will do if there is no CAP organization attributed to that state?

[Spaceman3750]

Fair enough, shuffle the decks and reorg with the wings too small to justify a wing into the new "NER",
and reorg MER with the larger ones.

Or whatever works.

Bottom line, no wing should have less members then any given unit in another state.

The problem with that solution is several of these wings are receiving state grants or have Memorandums of Understanding with their states that bring in $$$. NH Wing twice threatened to end appropriations when long time NHWG members (Schollaman and Grey) who lived just over the state lines were appointed as Wing Kings.  Both were removed within a week of appointment and told there would be no record of their being Wing CC's. What do you think states will do if there is no CAP organization attributed to that state?

In our wing (Eclipse and I), it's a non-issue since the state won't even sign an MOU with us, let alone give us appropriations. Would probably be an issue elsewhere.

[RiverAux]

Fair enough, shuffle the decks and reorg with the wings too small to justify a wing into the new "NER",
and reorg MER with the larger ones.

Or whatever works.

Bottom line, no wing should have less members then any given unit in another state.

The problem with that solution is several of these wings are receiving state grants or have Memorandums of Understanding with their states that bring in $$$. NH Wing twice threatened to end appropriations when long time NHWG members (Schollaman and Grey) who lived just over the state lines were appointed as Wing Kings.  Both were removed within a week of appointment and told there would be no record of their being Wing CC's. What do you think states will do if there is no CAP organization attributed to that state?

No state is going to care whether it is a CAP Wing or a CAP Group or a CAP Starfleet (well, that last one might throw them off).

[Eclipse]

Agreed, they want bang for the buck.  Give it and they won't care who does what where.

[FW]

Since Wing Commanders are not Corporate Officers, maybe it shouldn't matter that a wing be confined to a state's borders.  RI could be a group of MAWG or CTWG.  DE could be part of MDWG; etc.  It should all boil down to proper span of control.  It is worth looking into.  What would a state care what the title of the commander of the state CAP organization is called? It would make things simpler at Command Council meetings... :angel:

[LSThiker]

Since Wing Commanders are not Corporate Officers,

They are the sole corporate officer for that state.

[MSG Mac]

Since Wing Commanders are not Corporate Officers,

They are the sole corporate officer for that state.

Not since the new governance went into effect last year.

[ZigZag911]

Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

There is an argument to be made for combining some of our wings, but that's an uphill battle.

[LSThiker]

Not since the new governance went into effect last year.

Okay, must have missed that.  I thought they were still corporate officers discretionarily appointed by the Board of Governors as a "field level" corporate officer as opposed to a national corporate officer (i.e. NH/CC, CV, COO).  Meh, does not exactly shift anything in my life really.

[Eclipse]

Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

Not if you drop out the 1-2 physically larger states.

The 4-5 smallest ones should be combined.  The take up less then 1/2 the geographic area
of most other wings, which means there's plenty of waste in terms of the economies of scale.

[Private Investigator]

From the outside looking in.

Why not have one decent SQ in RIWG and if distant is a concern have a Flight for those who can not drive 10 miles. Or where ever you stage an corporate aircraft make that a Flight. 

[Eclipse]

If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

[Phil Hirons, Jr.]

If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

That's just making RI jokes.

Part of being so small with a high population density is that people don't have to travel far for much of anything. And if that's the attitude of a cadet's parents we can't do much to change that.

I'd be open to a combined wing (RI / CT, RI / MA, RI / MA / CT). The devil would be in the details. Changes to the CAP Constitution, by-laws and who knows how many regulations would be required.

[Eclipse]

Rather then re-inventing wheels already spinning to zero gain, we should have resources
focused on these types of issues which go to the heart of CAP's viability and ROI.

The military does it on an ongoing basis through the BRAC and other draw-downs.

When I was a Group CC I was constantly assessing the viability of my units, and more then once
a couple came close to being shut down.  My wing has also been doing with GRACs and charter
retirements.

These are common-sense, objective business decisions which should be made outside the
cloud of "home field" or other irrelevant allegiances.

When you start adding up the cost savings in CI's, WAs, redundant infrastructure, and other
expenses, the numbers start to be pretty big.

[flyboy53]

I think the tragedy of the RI command situation was that it would fall on the shoulders of someone who might have been considered for a staff position at best.

I was aware of other issues with the wing because I have personally known a couple of the previous wing commanders -- one of which completely dropped out of CAP and now focuses his time with the USCG Aux.

As far as combining small wings into one larger unit, that's an interesting idea, but I though the organization of a wing was based on state boundaries. Before someone should even consider something like that, I would hope they would consider span of control.

NYW, after all, one of the largest wings in the Region, and one of the larger wings in the organization,  is so large that it takes about seven hours of driving time to get from one end off the state to the other. Some of the groups are so geographically large that it takes about two hours in a car to travel to different units. Try managing something like that as part of a larger wing.

Finally, although it's great to always look back and see how great it was to have an AF Officer as a national commander -- with the AF participation -- perhaps the issue in the future is to do what Gen. Johnson did in World War II, and that being that the ranking CAP officer should be able to pursue some sort of AF appointment or commission process. Sure would be impressive for some junior cadet.

The whole issue here is not the size of a wing but how that individual motivates his subordinates to excel in their duties and delegates to get the job done.

[Private Investigator]

If you can't drive 10 miles, you're in the wrong organization.

Rhode Island Composite is a good solution.

I agree, that does make sense. Pretty awesome to be a Squadron Commander with Wing Commander status. 

[Private Investigator]

I think the tragedy of the RI command situation was ...

Other Wings have the same problem. Make a plan "A", plan "B", etc, etc. Remembering failure is not an option.

Wings, Groups and Squadrons have the same problem. Somebody needs to say who is going to be the next Commander and then who after that one. Waiting to the last minute for a change of command, an SUI or a CI is always a disaster awaiting the perfect storm. 

[Eclipse]

I was aware of other issues with the wing because I have personally known a couple of the previous wing commanders -- one of which completely dropped out of CAP and now focuses his time with the USCG Aux.

This.

Needs to be in the top ten, if not five, things to be addressed in CAP before we spend time reinventing wheels
already spinning.

The number of members I have known, or or known of, who invest 10+ years rising to silver oaks and then literally disappear overnight.

In some case it is because they didn't deserve them to start with, so fair enough, but it shouldn't take 10 years to realize that.

But in far too many others, it is because by the time they rise to a position of influence, the responsibilities and weight
of doing the job(s) correctly without the commensurate support and authority, not to mention resources,
is more then they can stomach on zero salary.  Some people have no issue just checking a box f it means they
can have a cool business card.  The ones you actually want on your team don't cotton to that.

At the unit level you can either ignore or dissolve the fiefdoms, cliques, and nay-sayers, but above that, you're dependent on
dragging a lot of people along kicking an screaming, with little in the way of a stick to force action.  Plenty of smoke, little fire,
lot's of whining both about change, and "then why nothing is changing".

Make no mistake, volunteer or otherwise, CAP has made a significant investment in anyone who earned their oaks organically,
gold or silver, and this knowledge drain should be considered unacceptable and a huge organizational liability.

[Private Investigator]

^ I agree.

One thing I think is the first 10 years in you are a hard charger. In 10 years a few change of commands happen and you are no longer the "flavor of the month" or you are too old and the 'new breed' has a different agenda.

Then you have former Commanders who want to move up, they just can not be the former Commander and want a Group or Wing job for their imaginary resume or I.C.V.   

[MSG Mac]

Why turn NER into one wing?

We're one of the larger regions, in terms of personnel!

Not if you drop out the 1-2 physically larger states.

The 4-5 smallest ones should be combined.  The take up less then 1/2 the geographic area
of most other wings, which means there's plenty of waste in terms of the economies of scale.

CAP, Like the Air Force, USN, and USCG,  is a T/E organization. This means that a Wing is organized based on mission and not with a standardized organizational structure. 1 Wing could have 100 aircraft, another 15 and still be a Wing. A T/O organization (Army and Marines) says that a unit will have X number of people in specified grades and MOS's. RI wing still has the same missions as TXWG or CAWG, so having a COL as Commander is appropriate. 

[rustyjeeper]

Recruiting is simply not a national priority.

It should be.

I agree completely, and continue to ring the bell, both here and locally, to little avail.

I assert that CAP needs to do a National "ALL STOP" and concentrate on recruiting for a 6-month period.
Real, focused, results-based (and required) recruiting.  Mandating every squadron add "x" members or
grow by "x" percentage (grow is probably better then add, since that entails some attention to retention.

Few members are much value to CAP in the first 6-months to a year, and most take 1-3 months
from first contact to full membership, which means if we started tomorrow, we see no results until
next year, and that's conservative.

That doesn't mean we stop looking for people, or hold up cadets, but every moment wasted on
anything but status quo is directed at recruiting, and that includes putting empty shirts in
a separate category so we can see the real numbers.

It takes a year to grow a new member, literally.  How much longer do we put this off?

CAP needs to focus on not just recruitment but also retention of members. Many like myself quit out of frustration. I allowed my membership to lapse yesterday and yet another is dropped from the rolls.
My final act before expiration was to hit the big red button (aka- ask the National Commander) and to suggest that NHQ conduct exit surveys of members. In my case frustrations at Local and Wing levels were my reason for leaving.  Sadly in NER the region seems to do nothing at all- not even enforce its own policies

[Private Investigator]

CAP needs to focus on not just recruitment but also retention of members. Many like myself quit out of frustration. I allowed my membership to lapse yesterday and yet another is dropped from the rolls.
My final act before expiration was to hit the big red button (aka- ask the National Commander) and to suggest that NHQ conduct exit surveys of members. In my case frustrations at Local and Wing levels were my reason for leaving.  Sadly in NER the region seems to do nothing at all- not even enforce its own policies

Sorry that you left. When I moved I had to change Squadrons and the new unit was sorry. Just a flying club, no missions in 5 years. Now I got a long drive but for the camadrie it is worth it.