Crewmember wings alternative

[Mustang]

I can pretty much assure all of you right now that we won't be adopting any sort of insignia with AF-style wings attached. Ain't gonna happen.

There is a frustrating irony that the United States' Air Force Auxiliary won't / can't adopt AF-style aviation insignia, but instead uses naval-style insignia.

Makes you wonder why.

FTFY.  CAP wasn't given a choice.

Same deal with the gray shoulder marks and ultramarine-backed embroidered insignia on BDUs.

[arajca]

It does not. The CAP Aircrew badge slick wings would represent the "intro" level of air crew qualification. The Senior CAP Aircrew badge represents more advanced qualifications, and the Master CAP Aircrew badge represents the entry into air mission management. Just as the GT badge represents quals at different levels....the addition of the star and star/wreath doesnt change the name of the badge.

There is no need to design and produce a new set of badges for members of CAP aircrews. Current designs would suffice for the purpose of designating individuals as aircrew with no additional cost to the member or the organization. It is my proposal that the current Observer style aviation badge be redesignated "CAP Aircrew Badge". This would enable one badge to encompass all non-pilot aircrew specialties. The Basic badge would be authorized for scanners, aerial photographers, and all other non-pilot and non-observer crew duties. The senior badge would be authorized for Observers. The Master badge would be authorized for members who are qualified Air Operations Branch Directors. Using this method, there would be no need to design, cast or produce a new style insignia in the various versions (full, mini, cloth, and leather nametag). Organizationally, only a change to existing regs would be necessary, with negligible funding impact. The cost to members would be minimal.

But all of that would result in a deviation to the hierarchy system used in wings and badges in general. The star and star/wreath is supposed to represent higher levels of the rating shown by the badge/wings. Following this suggestion uses the star and star/wreath to create an entirely different badge with each addition.

So Scanner would be Basic wing. AP or Aerial Imaging Operator(GIIEPS, Archer, FLIR, ad nauseum) or Observer would be Senior. AOBD would be Master, right?

[THRAWN]

Correct.

It does not. The CAP Aircrew badge slick wings would represent the "intro" level of air crew qualification. The Senior CAP Aircrew badge represents more advanced qualifications, and the Master CAP Aircrew badge represents the entry into air mission management. Just as the GT badge represents quals at different levels....the addition of the star and star/wreath doesnt change the name of the badge.

There is no need to design and produce a new set of badges for members of CAP aircrews. Current designs would suffice for the purpose of designating individuals as aircrew with no additional cost to the member or the organization. It is my proposal that the current Observer style aviation badge be redesignated "CAP Aircrew Badge". This would enable one badge to encompass all non-pilot aircrew specialties. The Basic badge would be authorized for scanners, aerial photographers, and all other non-pilot and non-observer crew duties. The senior badge would be authorized for Observers. The Master badge would be authorized for members who are qualified Air Operations Branch Directors. Using this method, there would be no need to design, cast or produce a new style insignia in the various versions (full, mini, cloth, and leather nametag). Organizationally, only a change to existing regs would be necessary, with negligible funding impact. The cost to members would be minimal.

But all of that would result in a deviation to the hierarchy system used in wings and badges in general. The star and star/wreath is supposed to represent higher levels of the rating shown by the badge/wings. Following this suggestion uses the star and star/wreath to create an entirely different badge with each addition.

So Scanner would be Basic wing. AP or Aerial Imaging Operator(GIIEPS, Archer, FLIR, ad nauseum) or Observer would be Senior. AOBD would be Master, right?

[arajca]

So, what would a pilot who progressed to AOBD without going through the aircrew track wear?

[THRAWN]

Same as they do now....pilot wings.

So, what would a pilot who progressed to AOBD without going through the aircrew track wear?

[arajca]

Same as they do now....pilot wings.

So, what would a pilot who progressed to AOBD without going through the aircrew track wear?

What differentiates them from a non-AOBD high-hour pilot?

[lordmonar]

Why not keep the same as the observer wings?

MS get the basic
MS +1 add on aircrew rating + 100 hours you get the senior.
MS +1 add on aircrew rating+ AOBD +200 hours gets you the Master.

BTW I think we need to add sorties/hours to the GT badge and not just leave it up to getting the ES ratings.

YMMV.

[Mustang]

I gotta hand it to you Thrawn, you're a master of obfuscation. (Do you work for the government or something? lol )  And you thought changing the O to a C added confusion! 

[Eclipse]

Same as they do now....pilot wings.

So, what would a pilot who progressed to AOBD without going through the aircrew track wear?

+1 - A SAR/DR pilot has certainly "come up through the aircrew track".

[The CyBorg is destroyed]

Perhaps I need new glasses, but I find comparing our wings



to those of the USN/USMC/USCG



just a tad off-the-mark.

If anything, they seem closer (in my aging eyes) to the wings worn by CGAUX aviators:

[AlphaSigOU]

I haven't seen any guidance (yet) on the new Aircrew Member rating (no new CAPR 35-6 out yet) but from what I could glean from the draft CAPM 39-1 it's just going to be a single rating, no senior or master. At least the scanners and other aircrew members other than the pilot and observer get to wear wings, even though the wing design is unimaginative in my opinion. (That and 50 cents won't even buy a cup of coffee! )

[NIN]

Think about our WW II "droopy" wings and that evolutionary chain.  The history sorts may want to chime in.

[Eclipse]

Perhaps I need new glasses, but I find comparing our wings

The only real comparison is the use of the "AC" in the circle which is a Navy thing.

[Mustang]

Perhaps I need new glasses, but I find comparing our wings



to those of the USN/USMC/USCG



just a tad off-the-mark.

You need a clue, not new glasses.  THESE are the wings everyone is referring to:

[Shortline]

I'm new, so assume I'll get flamed, but have broad shoulders, so fire away-But, my opinion-Round is certainly not indiciative of a non combatant role.  Or, if it is, after 20+ years of wearing round USAF enlisted aircrew wings, I assure you, the bad guys did not get that memo.

2nd, why not keep it simple? Pilot wings. Crew wings. Star/Wreath based on a quantifiable system, based on achievent and/or hours? Or, keep it even MORE simple-Pilot wings. Period.

Frankly, the fewer uniform parts I have to buy the better.  I would rather not have have to buy a set of crew wings, observer wings, and pilot wings, as I go through all this especially since they're embroidered on the polo (about all I ever see worn anyway). With Navigators on the way out on Active, there will only really be two kinds of wings for officers, Pilot, and Crew.  (are backseaters in fast movers Nav wings or Mission Crew wings? Don't know, never around  2 seaters or AWACS/NEACAP/etc folks enough to notice what the mission crew wears-Point being, keep it simple)

[PHall]

I'm new, so assume I'll get flamed, but have broad shoulders, so fire away-But, my opinion-Round is certainly not indiciative of a non combatant role.  Or, if it is, after 20+ years of wearing round USAF enlisted aircrew wings, I assure you, the bad guys did not get that memo.

2nd, why not keep it simple? Pilot wings. Crew wings. Star/Wreath based on a quantifiable system, based on achievent and/or hours? Or, keep it even MORE simple-Pilot wings. Period.

Frankly, the fewer uniform parts I have to buy the better.  I would rather not have have to buy a set of crew wings, observer wings, and pilot wings, as I go through all this especially since they're embroidered on the polo (about all I ever see worn anyway). With Navigators on the way out on Active, there will only really be two kinds of wings for officers, Pilot, and Crew.  (are backseaters in fast movers Nav wings or Mission Crew wings? Don't know, never around  2 seaters or AWACS/NEACAP/etc folks enough to notice what the mission crew wears-Point being, keep it simple)

Back seaters on the fast movers wear Nav Wings.

[SarDragon]

Perhaps I need new glasses, but I find comparing our wings



to those of the USN/USMC/USCG

Deleted wrong wings

just a tad off-the-mark.

If anything, they seem closer (in my aging eyes) to the wings worn by CGAUX aviators:

Deleted - not even close

Try these:



That's what is being compared with.

[Eclipse]

I'm new, so assume I'll get flamed, but have broad shoulders, so fire away-But, my opinion-Round is certainly not indiciative of a non combatant role.  Or, if it is, after 20+ years of wearing round USAF enlisted aircrew wings, I assure you, the bad guys did not get that memo.

2nd, why not keep it simple? Pilot wings. Crew wings. Star/Wreath based on a quantifiable system, based on achievent and/or hours? Or, keep it even MORE simple-Pilot wings. Period.

Frankly, the fewer uniform parts I have to buy the better.  I would rather not have have to buy a set of crew wings, observer wings, and pilot wings, as I go through all this especially since they're embroidered on the polo (about all I ever see worn anyway). With Navigators on the way out on Active, there will only really be two kinds of wings for officers, Pilot, and Crew.  (are backseaters in fast movers Nav wings or Mission Crew wings? Don't know, never around  2 seaters or AWACS/NEACAP/etc folks enough to notice what the mission crew wears-Point being, keep it simple)

There's a lot of flame talk around here lately considering that's pretty much not tolerated here by the mods.

There's no requirement to embroider your ES quals on the golf shirt, and I would certainly not recommend anyone do it until their
ascension has leveled out, especially if they are being cost conscious.

[LGM30GMCC]

I'm new, so assume I'll get flamed, but have broad shoulders, so fire away-But, my opinion-Round is certainly not indiciative of a non combatant role.  Or, if it is, after 20+ years of wearing round USAF enlisted aircrew wings, I assure you, the bad guys did not get that memo.

2nd, why not keep it simple? Pilot wings. Crew wings. Star/Wreath based on a quantifiable system, based on achievent and/or hours? Or, keep it even MORE simple-Pilot wings. Period.

Frankly, the fewer uniform parts I have to buy the better.  I would rather not have have to buy a set of crew wings, observer wings, and pilot wings, as I go through all this especially since they're embroidered on the polo (about all I ever see worn anyway). With Navigators on the way out on Active, there will only really be two kinds of wings for officers, Pilot, and Crew.  (are backseaters in fast movers Nav wings or Mission Crew wings? Don't know, never around  2 seaters or AWACS/NEACAP/etc folks enough to notice what the mission crew wears-Point being, keep it simple)

You also forgot about ABMs who have their own wings. Additionally, more 'wing-like' devices have been getting added. First were the 'Spings' then the 'Cyberwings' which are mandatory badges equivalent in order of precedence to aeronautical ratings. (In fact if you are in a non-space billet, and were on the ALCS when they had/earned both, after that assignment having either one on top is technically correct. Go figure.)

That being said, I could see Pilot wings and Aircrew wings. (Since as has been pointed out MS is a full on speciality itself and with AP, and other sensor operators, it kind of makes sense.)

I also don't like lettered wings with multiple letters like that. They look ugly IMHO.

[flyboy53]

I agree. Someone didn't have a whole lot of imagination when they dreamed that one up. I thought I saw those somewhere in a pilots supply catalog.

As far as the best design, I've seen so far, it's the one with the hat emblem in the middle. That design best confirms with the current AF standard, do it would be recognized as aircrew. As far as round or shield, round goes with the heraldry of this organization -- it would also fit if any of those scanners are NCOs.

As far as enameling something in the center, can we nix that. I'm so tired of all the Cracker Jack box speciality/occupational badges, why compound that with an aircrew wing. These days of embroidered insignia or leather name badges, that would truly be so expensive and bad looking on a ABU/BDU utility uniform.

You know I remember a while ago on this site, one of you suggested just having one or more speciality/occupational badges that were modeled similar to the ground team badge. I wish that idea had caught the eye of NHQ.

Alas, I think NHQ revolves around in the stratosphere and doesn't listen to the field.