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Майор Хаткевич
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« on: November 05, 2013, 06:09:38 AM »

Where is the one to see who dropped off the roster recently?
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Eclipse
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« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2013, 01:34:54 PM »

Ain't.
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coudano
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« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2013, 01:40:45 PM »

Nah, i've seen one...  but I can't remember where...

like members about to expire in 60days, 30 days, and members who expired within the last 3 months
or something like that?  maybe commanders only?
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FlyTiger77
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« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2013, 02:31:18 PM »

Nah, i've seen one...  but I can't remember where...

like members about to expire in 60days, 30 days, and members who expired within the last 3 months
or something like that?  maybe commanders only?

There is a report in the Commanders' Corner that shows the individuals who are expiring within 30, 60 and 90 days but it doesn't show the recent expirations.
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JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP
Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2013, 02:35:23 PM »

Yea, got access to the 90 days out. Doesn't show those already gone.
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Offutteer
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« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2013, 02:36:48 PM »

So....  Who's writing the Help Desk request?  I don't think we all need to do it.

A simple enough report.  Expired members within 90 days with contact information (address, phone and email).  Could do a lot to help with retention. 
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JeffDG
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« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2013, 02:38:17 PM »

The data's available in "CAPWATCH"

When members drop off, their status changes to "EXPIRED".  All the contact information is still there too.
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Storm Chaser
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« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2013, 02:46:31 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2013, 02:59:17 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2013, 03:27:18 PM »

The data's available in "CAPWATCH"

When members drop off, their status changes to "EXPIRED".  All the contact information is still there too.

The data is there, but there's no "reports" per se - those are just raw tables.  You still need to be able to do something with them.

I forgot about the "90 day expiration" one.

One that would be real nice would be a "forever" ex-members with the date they dropped off so we could do long-term stats.  A lot of
these reports are useless for a year if you start tracking something no one was watching before.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #10 on: November 05, 2013, 05:35:31 PM »

. . . Need to read all of the thread. . .
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« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2013, 08:15:53 AM »

So....  Who's writing the Help Desk request?  I don't think we all need to do it.

A simple enough report.  Expired members within 90 days with contact information (address, phone and email).  Could do a lot to help with retention.

Not really. When their time is done, they're done. I use to chase after expired members and found the best thing was get an "exit interview" and find out why they are leaving. If it is not fun why stay?
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2013, 05:29:57 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.

I would argue that it doesn't belong there.  This report isn't just about cadets, it lists all member types at the unit.
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2013, 05:46:29 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.

I would argue that it doesn't belong there.  This report isn't just about cadets, it lists all member types at the unit.


Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2013, 05:51:21 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.

I would argue that it doesn't belong there.  This report isn't just about cadets, it lists all member types at the unit.


Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.

So ask your wsa for access to member reports or capwatch download.  The purpose of the various cadet centric restricted applications is not to provide the information you were seeking.
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2013, 06:23:28 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.

I would argue that it doesn't belong there.  This report isn't just about cadets, it lists all member types at the unit.


Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.



So ask your wsa for access to member reports or capwatch download.  The purpose of the various cadet centric restricted applications is not to provide the information you were seeking.

Incidentally as the Leadership Officer I did have access to the info in the posted report path. But a cadet specific one would be useful, and can be rolled into the 90days from expiration report.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2013, 07:08:51 PM »

Or, you can use SIMS and filter the data you're looking for.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2013, 07:19:58 PM »

Or, you can use SIMS and filter the data you're looking for.

Sims? Wasn't that the platform...popular in 2007? I seem to remember there was a lot of excitement about it at the tail end of my cadet days. Of course eservices was also near useless back then and in-house stuff was quite common on the idea front.
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2013, 07:26:17 PM »

You can get a report for members whose membership expired within 90 days. The report is under Members Reports, Membership. Make sure you select the option to include inactive members within past 90 days.

Awesome, thanks!

Now to put it under cadet reports.

I would argue that it doesn't belong there.  This report isn't just about cadets, it lists all member types at the unit.


Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.



So ask your wsa for access to member reports or capwatch download.  The purpose of the various cadet centric restricted applications is not to provide the information you were seeking.

Incidentally as the Leadership Officer I did have access to the info in the posted report path. But a cadet specific one would be useful, and can be rolled into the 90days from expiration report.
And where would that report go?


Cadet Promotions application is specifically for cadet promotions
Cadet Uniform application is specifically for cadet uniforms
CAP Scholarship application is specifically for scholarships
Cadet Online Testing application is specifically for cadet testing
Event Administration and Event NESA Administration is specifically for the administration of NCSAs/NESA respectively


How about a section specifically for reports of a membership nature?  Say how about in that report option including a function to filter by member type?  Something kind of like the attached image.


* memberreports_cadetoption.jpg (52.12 kB, 679x377 - viewed 14 times.)
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2013, 08:28:51 PM »

Cadet Promotions have reports.  Make it an option under the 90 Day Lapse.

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Eclipse
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« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2013, 08:36:32 PM »

Assuming you have a functioning copy, SIMS is still the most comprehensive way to manage squadron - it encompasses
everything you need in one place.

Unfortunately, all the mucking with the tables, not to mention moving them from Access to raw text appears to have chased away
the developers.  Their site is dead.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2013, 08:56:43 PM »

Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.

That request should have gone to the Personnel Officer.  That was the wrong lane for that task.
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« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2013, 08:57:29 PM »

I still keep thinking of making a Filemaker version of a front end for data.. at least runtimes can be made for OS X and Windows.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2013, 09:15:46 PM »

Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.

That request should have gone to the Personnel Officer.  That was the wrong lane for that task.

We were doing something unrelated. Came up by text message at 11PM. We both have access to the reports, so why involve someone else?
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2013, 09:25:20 PM »

Cadet Promotions have reports.  Make it an option under the 90 Day Lapse.


Indeed it does, and with the exception of the 90 day lapse, they are ALL tied to .... cadet promotions.  An expired member isn't in any way tied to promotions, so there is no need for it to be there.  Keep things in their proper lane.
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2013, 09:36:54 PM »

Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.

That request should have gone to the Personnel Officer.  That was the wrong lane for that task.

We were doing something unrelated. Came up by text message at 11PM. We both have access to the reports, so why involve someone else?

You involve the other person, because that's whose job it is to manage that.  You manage the cadets in your lane, the Personnel manages all the data of everybody.  If a cadet falls off the roster, that cadet is no longer in your lane.  That is how it is supposed to work in the perfect world.  Now, if the CDC or CC thought it should be in your lane, they should assign you the right WSA permissions to check it out.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 09:41:06 PM »

Assuming you have a functioning copy, SIMS is still the most comprehensive way to manage squadron - it encompasses
everything you need in one place.

Unfortunately, all the mucking with the tables, not to mention moving them from Access to raw text appears to have chased away
the developers.  Their site is dead.

Have one and using it actively.  It's a pain to use when you first start but it does contain a wealth of info and is easy to update.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2013, 10:40:51 PM »

Right, and as a Leadership Officer, I work under the CDC, who asked me who dropped to bring our count down, and I had a hell of a time finding it out under the cadet restricted apps.

That request should have gone to the Personnel Officer.  That was the wrong lane for that task.

We were doing something unrelated. Came up by text message at 11PM. We both have access to the reports, so why involve someone else?

You involve the other person, because that's whose job it is to manage that.  You manage the cadets in your lane, the Personnel manages all the data of everybody.  If a cadet falls off the roster, that cadet is no longer in your lane.  That is how it is supposed to work in the perfect world.  Now, if the CDC or CC thought it should be in your lane, they should assign you the right WSA permissions to check it out.

Seriously? We saw the dip from 30 to 29. Wondered who dropped. All there is to it. Sometimes ACTIVE cadets will forget to renew in a timely manner. Sometimes it's a kid off to college, or one who dropped off on attendance months ago. IMO this is the type of stuff you need to see as a CP Officer. We don't need a bureaucracy, and I didn't need any of the kids data, just a name to put to the change.

And again, one of my permissions (PAO, Testing, Leadership) gives me the reports at hand, so I'm not sure why you're convinced that a Personnel officer needs to get involved, especially on a cursory issue.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2013, 10:48:52 PM »

Seriously? We saw the dip from 30 to 29. Wondered who dropped. All there is to it. Sometimes ACTIVE cadets will forget to renew in a timely manner. Sometimes it's a kid off to college, or one who dropped off on attendance months ago. IMO this is the type of stuff you need to see as a CP Officer. We don't need a bureaucracy, and I didn't need any of the kids data, just a name to put to the change.

And again, one of my permissions (PAO, Testing, Leadership) gives me the reports at hand, so I'm not sure why you're convinced that a Personnel officer needs to get involved, especially on a cursory issue.

I understand why people drop off.  I see it all the time.  If you have access to the reports fine, it means your command has seen fit that you need access to that information.  If they haven't; you go to the one that does.  Why is that so hard? 

Should that report be accessible to CP people, you bet.  Why its not?  No clue. 
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2013, 10:54:18 PM »

Maybe because it is supposed to be the responsibility of the Personnel Officer, according to the pamphlet that covers the Personnel specialty track, CAPP200?

Quote
From page 4:
This includes recruiting new members, retaining current members...

Quote
From page 3, para 1:
1. Position Description. Personnel technicians are responsible for a basic familiarity with all CAP personnel directives and the organizational structure of CAP. They perform all duties related to processing unit personnel actions to include new membership applications, unit activations and deactivations, charter changes, assignments, reassignments, transfers, retirements, promotions, demotions, termination, actions, and awards and decorations.

Just like a testing issue is that of the Testing Officer...?

Flyer
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #30 on: November 07, 2013, 11:03:44 PM »

So a CDC needs to go to Personnel for a quick report on his cadets? It's not possible, in a rational world to have both have access to it? CDC and CC also need to know the testing regs, not just the testing officers.
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #31 on: November 07, 2013, 11:17:10 PM »

It was asked "Why do I have to go to the Personnel Officer for this?" Asked and answered.

Now you are posting a different question. To which I answer if you have access to that report, then run it! And no, in this case you do not have to involve your Personnel Officer!

Flyer
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #32 on: November 07, 2013, 11:36:13 PM »

No, the question was why would a CDC need to involve a personnel officer when the CDC should have access to this info.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #33 on: November 07, 2013, 11:42:03 PM »

No, the question was why would a CDC need to involve a personnel officer when the CDC should have access to this info.
The simple but blunt answer is that they way 20-1 is written, the CDC doesn't.  I think that they should have it, and they can.  The WSA just needs to grant those permissions.
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« Reply #34 on: November 07, 2013, 11:43:20 PM »

Bit he does have access to it. Just not in the cadet module.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #35 on: November 08, 2013, 12:23:50 AM »

Ok. . . so whats the issue if the CDC has it?

So what if its in another module?
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« Reply #36 on: November 08, 2013, 12:42:37 AM »

Ok. . . so whats the issue if the CDC has it?

So what if its in another module?

Its not intuitive?
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Patterson
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« Reply #37 on: November 08, 2013, 01:01:58 AM »

Wow.  If we use Flyers logic, the non-renewing member that fell off the roster is not any concern of the Personnel Officer.  Since they are a former member, and it's not written in black and white in CAPP 200, it's not a Personnel issue.

Really, non-renewals are everyone's business. We need to know the why and reasons for leaving.  Those answers will help every staff officer at the Squadron.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2013, 01:11:26 AM »

If the only reason you notice someone is missing is because your MML is 1 short, they aren't likely to be coming back.

People forget to renew all the time, and that will pop up the first time you try to input safety, fly, whatever, but
very few are active members and then simply stop showing up coincidental to their membership expiring.

The reports that always concerned me were the 90 and thirty day expiration reports, especially if someone
is on there more then once.

Most people take care of that kind of thing as soon as it is brought to their attention, so when they linger on those
reports, there's usually a reason - "I forgot is #1.", but "I don't know if I'm renewing." and "I'm not giving NHQ a nickel
until the last minute." are on that list too.

#2 & 3 usually indicate some kind of displeasure with their CAP involvement.
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RogueLeader
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« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2013, 01:12:37 AM »

Ok. . . so whats the issue if the CDC has it?

So what if its in another module?

Its not intuitive?

Membership under Membership Reports isn't intuitive? ???
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #40 on: November 08, 2013, 02:11:05 AM »

Ok. . . so whats the issue if the CDC has it?

So what if its in another module?

Its not intuitive?

Membership under Membership Reports isn't intuitive? ???

Lack of it for cadets under reports is.
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #41 on: November 08, 2013, 03:56:30 AM »

Ok. . . so whats the issue if the CDC has it?

So what if its in another module?

Its not intuitive?

Membership under Membership Reports isn't intuitive? ???

Lack of it for cadets under reports is.
Please see http://captalk.net/index.php?topic=18143.msg328561#msg328561 for my response on that.
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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« Reply #42 on: November 08, 2013, 05:17:16 AM »

Yea, see mine right after that one.
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #43 on: November 08, 2013, 05:26:36 AM »

I maintain my assertion that it does NOT make sense to have a membership type of report in a restricted application about cadet promotions.
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TIMOTHY R. MEDEIROS, Lt Col, CAP
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Luis R. Ramos
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« Reply #44 on: November 08, 2013, 05:09:07 PM »

Patterson-

Quote
If we use Flyers logic, the non-renewing member that fell off the roster...

How do you get that? Quite the opposite, this logic if you call it that, I consider it a mandate by regulations, should prevent a member from becoming a non-concern.  Remember I posted that regulations stated this officer is responsible for retaining current members...? So if this officer does his / her job, there will be no one falling off the rosters!

Flyer
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« Reply #45 on: November 12, 2013, 12:39:44 AM »

The newer members drop out well before the report shows him/her shows up as due to renew. We should be contacting the members when they miss a meeting, unless they have already notified you of a planned absence. We don't lose them on the expiration date but usually at the 4 to 6 month of membership.
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