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Papabird
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Posts: 121
Unit: SER-GA-112

« on: September 25, 2013, 05:25:21 PM »

Please, I don't want this thread to turn into a finger pointing political argument.  I am not talking about who did who to what.  I would like to know what you all are hearing in your wings.

    What will CAP have to do if the Federal Government shuts down?
    Do we have to cease and desist?
    Can we continue with meetings?
    Does our liability insurance still cover us?
    Can/will AFRCC still dispatch us?

I haven't heard or read anything and would just like to start a contingency plan.

Thanks!
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Michael Willis, Lt. Col CAP
Gwinnett Composite Squadron - Here to serve
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« Reply #1 on: September 25, 2013, 05:35:04 PM »

Please, I don't want this thread to turn into a finger pointing political argument.  I am not talking about who did who to what.  I would like to know what you all are hearing in your wings.

    What will CAP have to do if the Federal Government shuts down? May affect NHQ
    Do we have to cease and desist? No, local units use their own funds, not federal
    Can we continue with meetings? Yes
    Does our liability insurance still cover us? Don't know
    Can/will AFRCC still dispatch us? AFRCC will still be using us, we're the only store in town for the type of missions they task us for. Being reimbursed is a different story. Payments may be slow or even non-existent.

I haven't heard or read anything and would just like to start a contingency plan.

Thanks!
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Michael P. McEleney
Lt Col CAP
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abdsp51
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« Reply #2 on: September 25, 2013, 05:43:06 PM »

Flying hours and mx may not happen but meetings will still happen and the mission will press on.  I'd be more worried about the folks who will not get paid in the event the government does shut down.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2013, 05:50:31 PM »

No contingency is needed, nor any "sky is falling concern".
This has zero effect on normal CAP operations below the wing level.  The end of the fiscal year
is next week, and it always takes a couple of weeks for appropriations to get funneled into
wing accounts anyway, so the effect of a shutdown is effectively "nil".

Self-funded activities, meetings, etc., etc., have no impact unless it's being run at a facility
that is impacted by a shutdown.

AFRCC, 1AF, and the NOC might have people on furlough or reduced staff, but there are continuity
provisions in all funding bills that keep essential services running without interruption.  You might not be able
to camp in a National Park, but if your plane goes down over one, we'll still come looking.

As abdsp51 mentions, this is hardest on CAP-USAF and paid staff.
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Papabird
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« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2013, 06:10:36 PM »

No contingency is needed, nor any "sky is falling concern".
This has zero effect on normal CAP operations below the wing level.  The end of the fiscal year
is next week, and it always takes a couple of weeks for appropriations to get funneled into
wing accounts anyway, so the effect of a shutdown is effectively "nil".

Self-funded activities, meetings, etc., etc., have no impact unless it's being run at a facility
that is impacted by a shutdown.

AFRCC, 1AF, and the NOC might have people on furlough or reduced staff, but there are continuity
provisions in all funding bills that keep essential services running without interruption.  You might not be able
to camp in a National Park, but if your plane goes down over one, we'll still come looking.

As abdsp51 mentions, this is hardest on CAP-USAF and paid staff.

Great news and bad news for the people who don't get paid.  I wasn't in CAP back when the last shutdown happened, but had just left Active Duty, so I didn't have a frame of reference.

I just saw an e-mail from our Wing Gov Affairs Officer talking about "federal government guidance on managing social media during a government shutdown" and talked about hiding Facebook pages.  So, I was curious.

Thanks!

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Michael Willis, Lt. Col CAP
Gwinnett Composite Squadron - Here to serve
Eclipse
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« Reply #5 on: September 25, 2013, 06:20:05 PM »

Great news and bad news for the people who don't get paid.  I wasn't in CAP back when the last shutdown happened, but had just left Active Duty, so I didn't have a frame of reference.

We had an issue in Oct / Nov FY12 with shutdown and during FY13 Mar was lost due to sequestration.

I just saw an e-mail from our Wing Gov Affairs Officer talking about "federal government guidance on managing social media during a government shutdown" and talked about hiding Facebook pages.  So, I was curious.

Saw that, too.  Just general info.
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MIKE
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Posts: 5,461
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« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2013, 10:18:33 PM »

Aren't you glad you are in CAP and not the Coast Guard Auxiliary?  Waiting to see if I get to take mandatory vacation from my volunteer activities.
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Mike Johnston
RiverAux
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« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2013, 10:56:31 PM »

Oh, the recreational boating season in most of the country is pretty much over anyway. 
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MIKE
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« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2013, 11:05:22 PM »

Oh, the recreational boating season in most of the country is pretty much over anyway.

I have some community outreach stuff and possibly classes in the works for the winter months... Not to mention it's election season.
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Mike Johnston
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« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2013, 09:08:15 AM »

Right now, at least as far as I can tell, the only noticeable impact is that we may have to cancel some O-flight classes for the cadets.  But this happens every time around FYE, so it may just be coincidental.
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Al Sayre
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Mississippi Wing
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2013, 12:02:18 PM »

AFRCC can and will stll call, those missions are considered essential and come from a different pot of money, same with FEMA and DR Missions should another big hurricane or other disaster hit.  It will have no effect on missions funded by state or local gov'ts like sundown patrol etc.  What will stop is USAF funded training, Cadet and ROTC O'flights.  TOP fights come from corporate funds and probably won't be affected.
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Lt Col Al Sayre
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Eclipse
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« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2013, 03:23:31 AM »

23:22 ET

((*sigh*))

Sitting here creating FY14 missions, while our legislators argue and the wheels of government begin to slowly grind to a halt.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2013, 04:08:17 AM »

00:00 ET

The government is officially shut down.  Listed to CSPAN radio (House) and watched on CSPAN2 (Senate).

I'm still clicking, the legislators are going home for the night...

At least they passed a bill to pay active duty and military along with some contractors and civilian employees, though as least
as of the last message from NHQ the WAs will have the day off.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2013, 04:13:11 AM »

Land of the free...
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Private Investigator
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« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2013, 04:44:32 AM »

I am sure most Wings have already passed the word on whatever the protocol is.

A1 flights are doable but anything else will have to go thru NOC   8)
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RiverAux
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« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2013, 12:00:25 PM »

Communication about this has been non-existent in my Wing.  No word at all. 
CG Aux on the other hand has been very pro-active about telling people what the impact would be. 
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NIN
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« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2013, 12:06:01 PM »

Communication about this has been non-existent in my Wing.  No word at all. 
CG Aux on the other hand has been very pro-active about telling people what the impact would be.

NHQ, NER & my wing have put out some information. I've seen the emails that have gone out from Don Rowland & Colonel Leclair.

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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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The contents of this post are Copyright © 2007-2019 by NIN. All rights are reserved. Specific permission is given to quote this post here on CAP-Talk only.
Papabird
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Posts: 121
Unit: SER-GA-112

« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2013, 01:02:32 PM »

Communication about this has been non-existent in my Wing.  No word at all. 
CG Aux on the other hand has been very pro-active about telling people what the impact would be.

Got very complete information from my Wing (GLR-IL) about this.  :clap:
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Michael Willis, Lt. Col CAP
Gwinnett Composite Squadron - Here to serve
Al Sayre
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Mississippi Wing
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2013, 01:08:46 PM »

AFRCC can and will stll call, those missions are considered essential and come from a different pot of money, same with FEMA and DR Missions should another big hurricane or other disaster hit.  It will have no effect on missions funded by state or local gov'ts like sundown patrol etc.  What will stop is USAF funded training, Cadet and ROTC O'flights.  TOP fights come from corporate funds and probably won't be affected.

Looks like I messed up that prediction, NO non-emergency flying.  That includes state funded or member funded...
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Lt Col Al Sayre
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Admiral, Great Navy of the State of Nebraska
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SamFranklin
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« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2013, 01:35:25 PM »

From NHQ web:


Quote
CAP Members,
You may be wondering how the federal government shutdown affects you and your CAP unit. Even though CAP is not a government agency, because CAP receives funding through the federal government, CAP will not receive any federal funding until the budget situation is resolved. However, we need to stress that local squadrons are unaffected and will continue to meet normally, training cadets and conducting aerospace education programs...two critical missions that we can accomplish without much funding. The only exception is flying operations which is detailed below:

Only the following emergency response missions can be flown:

1. Emergency life saving and disaster response operational missions authorized in WMIRS by 1st Air Force, 11th Air Force, Pacific Air Forces, AFRCC or the AK RCC. All of these missions use mission number sequences like these examples: 14-1-XXXX, 14-M-XXX or RCC-14-XXXX.

2. Emergency response Corporate missions for state and local agencies that are funded by these agencies. (As a reminder, federal agencies cannot be supported in corporate status.)
These are the rules CAP will use for the initial days of the shutdown. If the government shutdown continues for a prolonged period, CAP will reevaluate the rules to consider authorizing other flying missions, including member-funded proficiency and checkrides.

The following will also be affected by the government shutdown:

1. Aircraft and vehicle maintenance will be delayed until CAP receives sufficient federal funding.

2. Employees at NHQ, including Wing Administrators in the field, will not report to work. A very small number of employees at the NHQ will continue to execute critical functions of the organization until this situation is resolved.

We are hopeful the duration of the government shutdown will be brief. Thank you for your understanding and patience as we deal with the major challenges a federal government shutdown entails.

Sincerely, CAP National Staff


https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Impact_Govt_Shutdown.pdf
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2013, 02:18:09 PM »

I'm loving the uneducated misinformation a bunch of members are spreading on social media.
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SunDog
Seasoned Member

Posts: 478

« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2013, 02:25:48 PM »

We just got the above, forwarded from our Wing.  A few days won't matter; a couple-three weeks or more, some aircraft/sqdns who cut it close on the 200 hours each year may not make it in FY14. I dunno, maybe for the best?

The money may all get there, eventually - not sure the oppurtunities to fly will all be recouped - jobs, family, PO'ed pilots, etc. Pilots will keep flying, just not in CAP aircraft.  Hope we get 'em all back. Probably - if it doesn't drag on too long?
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FlyTiger77
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Posts: 624

« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2013, 04:25:49 PM »

On a personal note, my furlough notice states that during the furlough period I am not allowed to perform duties as an unpaid volunteer for the federal government. I take that to mean that although my corporate duties can continue, I can't participate as a CAP member on any missions that are federally funded.

I assume that the restriction is in place to prevent employees from effectively working for free but the verbiage is crafted broadly.

Return of the law of unintended consequences.
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JACK E. MULLINAX II, Lt Col, CAP
JeffDG
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Posts: 3,179

« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2013, 04:36:57 PM »

On a personal note, my furlough notice states that during the furlough period I am not allowed to perform duties as an unpaid volunteer for the federal government. I take that to mean that although my corporate duties can continue, I can't participate as a CAP member on any missions that are federally funded.

I assume that the restriction is in place to prevent employees from effectively working for free but the verbiage is crafted broadly.

Return of the law of unintended consequences.
So, you're off the call list for A1's....gotcha!
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A.Member
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Posts: 1,621

« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2013, 05:18:56 PM »

From NHQ web:


Quote
CAP Members,
You may be wondering how the federal government shutdown affects you and your CAP unit. Even though CAP is not a government agency, because CAP receives funding through the federal government, CAP will not receive any federal funding until the budget situation is resolved. However, we need to stress that local squadrons are unaffected and will continue to meet normally, training cadets and conducting aerospace education programs...two critical missions that we can accomplish without much funding. The only exception is flying operations which is detailed below:

Only the following emergency response missions can be flown:

1. Emergency life saving and disaster response operational missions authorized in WMIRS by 1st Air Force, 11th Air Force, Pacific Air Forces, AFRCC or the AK RCC. All of these missions use mission number sequences like these examples: 14-1-XXXX, 14-M-XXX or RCC-14-XXXX.

2. Emergency response Corporate missions for state and local agencies that are funded by these agencies. (As a reminder, federal agencies cannot be supported in corporate status.)
These are the rules CAP will use for the initial days of the shutdown. If the government shutdown continues for a prolonged period, CAP will reevaluate the rules to consider authorizing other flying missions, including member-funded proficiency and checkrides.

The following will also be affected by the government shutdown:

1. Aircraft and vehicle maintenance will be delayed until CAP receives sufficient federal funding.

2. Employees at NHQ, including Wing Administrators in the field, will not report to work. A very small number of employees at the NHQ will continue to execute critical functions of the organization until this situation is resolved.

We are hopeful the duration of the government shutdown will be brief. Thank you for your understanding and patience as we deal with the major challenges a federal government shutdown entails.

Sincerely, CAP National Staff


https://www.capnhq.gov/news/Documents/Impact_Govt_Shutdown.pdf
Aside (kind of)...sorry, but the bolded portion above is the part that always gets me worked up. 

If an organization receives all of it's operational funding through a Congressional appropriation and without that funding they'd cease to operate...guess what?   They're a government agency!
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abdsp51
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« Reply #25 on: October 01, 2013, 05:30:48 PM »

Not everyone who receives funding from the government is a government agency.
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A.Member
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« Reply #26 on: October 01, 2013, 06:12:37 PM »

Not everyone who receives funding from the government is a government agency.
Agreed...and not all are incorporated or rely solely on federal $ for their existance. 

It's semantics but the only difference between CAP and a "full on" government agency is the added Congressional oversight, however, we still have to supply an annual finacial report to Congress, so even that isn't too far off.

I understand there are technical differences but, in practice, they're virtually differences without distinction.  Federal Reserve is in the same category and I view it the same way...for all practical purposes, it's a government agency.  We aren't in the simple category of just being Congressionally chartered,  like the Boy Scouts or 4H.  We have a specific Congressional line item budget and that is essentially our sole source of operating income.
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"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return." - Leonardo da Vinci
Eclipse
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« Reply #27 on: October 01, 2013, 07:07:05 PM »

On the paid side of the house, this is simply the reality of working for the feds, it is unfortunate that hard-working and sometimes struggling people
are stuck in the middle of a gridlocked government, but it is what it is.  This affects primarily the WAs and HQ staff.  At least for now, the LRADOs are
being directed to report for work but are not being paid. 

On the volunteer side, this has nearly ZERO EFFECT.

It does not impact meetings at any level or echelon (unless you happen to meet somewhere that is physically closed, in which case, Semper Gumby).
Nor does this freeze, confiscate, reduce, eliminate, or tax unit funds on deposit with the WBP or corporate donations or initiatives not
funded by appropriations.  The Feds are not going to "take the unit's color guard money like we always told you they were going to do to fund ES and
pay NHQ salaries, etc., etc... "((*sigh*)) Seriously?

Assuming it only lasts a maximum of a couple of weeks, it has little effect on aircrew or ground training. Why? 
Because CAP wings never get their appropriations before the second or third week of Q1 anyway, which means shutdown or no,
there would be no bucks and no Buck rogers until almost Halloween regardless.

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

It does not effect AFAMS for missing aircraft or DR because those are considered "critical" and have protected funding, and/or are
agency funded at a more local level.

The only noticeable effect is in member-funded flying, primarily because of maintenance funds.  This shouldn't be marginalized too
much, but October isn't exactly a historically banner month for self-funded flying, at least in my wing.

The biggest risk, and we do this to ourselves every time there's a similar issue, is a "the sky is falling" mentality that needlessly
brings the carrier to a halt, resulting in weeks or months of ancillary assumptions that CAP has no money.

Unless specifically directed to do so, no one should "stop" anything - all planning should continue, requests acted on, meetings held, etc.,
etc.  That way we don't have to run from a dead stop when the appropriations are released, which is going to happen, one way or another.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 07:10:55 PM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


Phil Hirons, Jr.
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Unit: NER-RI-001

« Reply #28 on: October 01, 2013, 07:14:30 PM »

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o
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Eclipse
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Posts: 29,998

« Reply #29 on: October 01, 2013, 07:44:03 PM »

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.
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A.Member
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Posts: 1,621

« Reply #30 on: October 01, 2013, 08:23:51 PM »

On the paid side of the house, this is simply the reality of working for the feds, it is unfortunate that hard-working and sometimes struggling people
are stuck in the middle of a gridlocked government, but it is what it is.  This affects primarily the WAs and HQ staff.  At least for now, the LRADOs are
being directed to report for work but are not being paid. 

On the volunteer side, this has nearly ZERO EFFECT.

It does not impact meetings at any level or echelon (unless you happen to meet somewhere that is physically closed, in which case, Semper Gumby).
Nor does this freeze, confiscate, reduce, eliminate, or tax unit funds on deposit with the WBP or corporate donations or initiatives not
funded by appropriations.  The Feds are not going to "take the unit's color guard money like we always told you they were going to do to fund ES and
pay NHQ salaries, etc., etc... "((*sigh*)) Seriously?

Assuming it only lasts a maximum of a couple of weeks, it has little effect on aircrew or ground training. Why? 
Because CAP wings never get their appropriations before the second or third week of Q1 anyway, which means shutdown or no,
there would be no bucks and no Buck rogers until almost Halloween regardless.

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

It does not effect AFAMS for missing aircraft or DR because those are considered "critical" and have protected funding, and/or are
agency funded at a more local level.

The only noticeable effect is in member-funded flying, primarily because of maintenance funds.  This shouldn't be marginalized too
much, but October isn't exactly a historically banner month for self-funded flying, at least in my wing.

The biggest risk, and we do this to ourselves every time there's a similar issue, is a "the sky is falling" mentality that needlessly
brings the carrier to a halt, resulting in weeks or months of ancillary assumptions that CAP has no money.

Unless specifically directed to do so, no one should "stop" anything - all planning should continue, requests acted on, meetings held, etc.,
etc.  That way we don't have to run from a dead stop when the appropriations are released, which is going to happen, one way or another.
Agree that the sky isn't falling and the impact to volunteers is reduced - but it's not zero or approaching zero either.

Some of this may get into specifics as to how individual Wings/units operate, regardless, Operations is definitely impacted.  As of now there is absolutely NO flying, even self funded flying (mission exception posted early noted).   There is NO maintenance, so whether your aircraft needs an oil change or your van needs a new tire...it's gonna wait.  In addition, reimbursement for member expenses may be delayed significantly as volunteer staff members step into the role of the paid administrator.  Etc.   So, it's not entirely business as normal. 
« Last Edit: October 01, 2013, 08:29:47 PM by A.Member » Report to moderator   Logged
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Phil Hirons, Jr.
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Unit: NER-RI-001

« Reply #31 on: October 01, 2013, 08:33:59 PM »

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.

Add to that the fact that the first weekend of the month is drill weekend and RIWG HQ is on Quonset ANGB.  :-\

Essentially we can't get the AF to agree that CAP ticking off the ANG is a bad idea.
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JeffDG
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Posts: 3,179

« Reply #32 on: October 01, 2013, 08:50:18 PM »

No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc., but your
compass, L-Per and CAP-issued radio will still work, appropriation or not, so no excuse to stop unit-level training and activities.

I only wish that were true. RI Wing's CI is scheduled for 4-7 October. We are waiting to hear if it gets postponed. :o

You've got to be kidding me.  Unless they do it with zero travel budget, odds are it will get pushed back.
Perhaps your region is different, but in 14 years, I've never seen any money before the 2nd week in Oct and
that's usually a random "nice".

Come to think of it, we've had CI's in late October and whenever that occurs it's a chicken scramble about whether we'll
have funding.
We had AF Training Funds October 1 last year...

Of course, they blocked WMIRS out the last two weeks of September, so you couldn't submit missions for the new FY (even with no funds), so we had our nice regulatory 21 day turnaround on approval for AFAMs to deal with anyway.

This year, WMIRS remained open and we have no money.
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SunDog
Seasoned Member

Posts: 478

« Reply #33 on: October 01, 2013, 09:28:23 PM »

I think a couple of us will be doing MP proficency training, regardless. At least this way, I can wear an old sweatshirt and shorts, or jammies and bunny slippers, if we I care to.
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PHall
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« Reply #34 on: October 01, 2013, 09:48:33 PM »

I think a couple of us will be doing MP proficency training, regardless. At least this way, I can wear an old sweatshirt and shorts, or jammies and bunny slippers, if we I care to.

You just won't be doing it in a CAP aircraft. And watch the Bunny Slippers, the Ears can get caught in the pedals! >:D
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SunDog
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Posts: 478

« Reply #35 on: October 01, 2013, 09:52:27 PM »

 ;D

Will exercise extreme caution!  It's a goof every year anyway, shutting down to accomodate bean counting. Stop, stumble, and fall contunues. . .
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NCRblues
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« Reply #36 on: October 01, 2013, 10:44:08 PM »



No one schedules anything of consequence during October for this reason.  No inspections, no major SARExs, etc., etc.,



NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Maybe CAP should start a "no major activities or selections time" at the transitional period of fiscal years
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In god we trust, all others we run through NCIC
Eclipse
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« Reply #37 on: October 01, 2013, 11:03:33 PM »

NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Those decisions should be made by volunteer staff, and there's no reason they should be delayed because of lack of appropriations.

The same goes for the WBP.  I realize that some of the reason we even have WAs is because of issues with finances and that WBP
related tasks are part of their job description, but IMHO a lot of wings have all but advocated abdicated the volunteer responsibilities of the Wing FM,
and that ain't right, especially if it's used as an excuse for not signing a WBP check.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2013, 02:21:18 AM by Eclipse » Report to moderator   Logged


RiverAux
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« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2013, 01:06:17 AM »

Finally heard something today. 
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SarDragon
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« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2013, 02:16:50 AM »

NHQ was supposed to select NCSA directors this week... Not a big deal just a PITB

Those decisions should be made by volunteer staff, and there's no reason they should be delayed because of lack of appropriations.

The same goes for the WBP.  I realize that some of the reason we even have WAs is because of issues with finances and that WBP
related tasks are part of their job description, but IMHO a lot of wings have all but advocated abdicated (?) the volunteer responsibilities of the Wing FM,
and that ain't right, especially if it's used as an excuse for not signing a WBP check.

FTFY.
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SunDog
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« Reply #40 on: October 02, 2013, 03:57:13 AM »

Sounds like we have cancellations, slowdown/partial shut-down in progress in my Wing. Sqdn meetings  may take place, depending on locations, I guess. Gone real quiet. . .

Going to a simulator for instrument currency, do some yard work, etc. I can use the time off. . .
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PHall
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« Reply #41 on: October 02, 2013, 03:24:31 PM »

My unit meets on a small military installation that has just about totally shut down.
Should be interesting to see if the Department of the Navy Civilian Police officers let us on base for our meeting tonight.
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MacGruff
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« Reply #42 on: October 03, 2013, 12:39:46 AM »

Got lots of notifications in my Wing from various levels in it. Had the regular meeting with cadets and our safety briefing as normal yesterday. We're on a county airport site, so no military impact to us. Our airplane is away for its 100 hour maintenance period so we had no orientation flights or major exercises scheduled for now anyway.

In other words, so far, nothing!
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Phil Hirons, Jr.
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« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2013, 12:59:33 AM »

RI Wing's CI 4 - 7 Oct was postponed today to a yet to be decided date.
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Slim
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« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2013, 07:21:47 AM »

Had no problem getting into our Army Reserve center last (Tuesday) night.  The lights were still on, the gate and door codes still worked, everything was ops normal.  Only difference was a few less cars in the parking lot.

I'm sure most of the civilians and military full timers aren't working, but I'm pretty sure they still have to have someone there to answer the phone during the day.
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Slim
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« Reply #45 on: October 03, 2013, 02:45:36 PM »

We had our sqdn meeting, location not Fed dependent. Our flying club is a NAF, and is open. Schedule is jammed, between CAP  members dropping CAP aircraft and jumping over, and some maintenance spikes. Have learned to make CAP aircraft "extra" flying, and have another main option or two. Great if it's available, but availability not so certain. 75-25 split works for me. Situations vary of course. . .
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Eclipse
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« Reply #46 on: October 03, 2013, 10:55:37 PM »

NHQ just authorized self-funded proficiency flying as well as agency-funded missions.

Edit: Specifically C7, C12, and C14 missions.
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NCRblues
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« Reply #47 on: October 03, 2013, 11:37:33 PM »

NHQ just authorized self-funded proficiency flying as well as agency-funded missions.

They must think we are in it for a long haul...
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« Reply #48 on: October 03, 2013, 11:54:35 PM »

Brilliant, just so well planned - couldn't have had that figured out last week? Couldn't have forseen this contingency, and thought it out in advance? Who is driving thus bus. . .
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Eclipse
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« Reply #49 on: October 04, 2013, 12:04:31 AM »

It was two days during a week no one does anything anyway.

It's not like there were crews clamoring to fly and we've been tossing off the walls like World War Z.

Odds are 1/4 of the membership isn't even aware of the shutdown, let alone any cognizance it affects CAP.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #50 on: October 04, 2013, 12:07:45 AM »

Crazy idea   ---- Any way that CAP might step in to help smooth out some of the civilian furloughs?  Granted, the vast majority of these jobs are going to be beyond what CAP members can pick up that quickly, but surely there are some basic needs that CAP members might help fill. 

Of course, if we had a working augmentation program we would already be somewhat positioned to do this. 
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Eclipse
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« Reply #51 on: October 04, 2013, 12:18:01 AM »

I'd be willing to bet that's not allowed for the same reason the furloughed employees themselves aren't allowed to show up for free.
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RiverAux
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« Reply #52 on: October 04, 2013, 12:24:11 AM »

Quite possibly you're right about that.  But, it depends on if such augmentation was being done as a corporate or AFAM-assigned mission.  We've heard stories of various informal augmentation being done on AFBs basically as corporate missions though I personally would think that they should be AFAMs. 

I wonder how the shutdown would impact CAP Chaplain augmentation then?  I think those are done as AFAMs in some form or fashion, though I don't think they actually get mission numbers. 
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #53 on: October 04, 2013, 12:32:31 AM »

How many chaplains do that, nationally.
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PHall
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« Reply #54 on: October 04, 2013, 01:31:54 AM »

Crazy idea   ---- Any way that CAP might step in to help smooth out some of the civilian furloughs?  Granted, the vast majority of these jobs are going to be beyond what CAP members can pick up that quickly, but surely there are some basic needs that CAP members might help fill. 

Of course, if we had a working augmentation program we would already be somewhat positioned to do this.


You don't even want to go there. Furloughed employees would not be happy to see unpaid "volunteers" basically taking food out of their families mouths.
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NIN
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« Reply #55 on: October 04, 2013, 02:00:21 AM »

National Guard facility was open, they even had the floor matting stuff from the workout room outside being cleaned and the workout equipment sitting in the middle of the drill hall.

Guard was the same old contract dude from every week.

The parking lot that I drive thru to get to the Armory was almost empty... usually, its not.

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RiverAux
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« Reply #56 on: October 04, 2013, 02:22:07 AM »

Crazy idea   ---- Any way that CAP might step in to help smooth out some of the civilian furloughs?  Granted, the vast majority of these jobs are going to be beyond what CAP members can pick up that quickly, but surely there are some basic needs that CAP members might help fill. 

Of course, if we had a working augmentation program we would already be somewhat positioned to do this.


You don't even want to go there. Furloughed employees would not be happy to see unpaid "volunteers" basically taking food out of their families mouths.

Uh, our elected leaders are already taking food out of their mouths.  Whether CAP does or does not fill in behind them isn't going to move the needle on that. 

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they're not going to outsource AF civilian jobs to CAP members.  We might just help keep the lights on in a few offices. 
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PHall
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« Reply #57 on: October 04, 2013, 03:00:05 AM »

Crazy idea   ---- Any way that CAP might step in to help smooth out some of the civilian furloughs?  Granted, the vast majority of these jobs are going to be beyond what CAP members can pick up that quickly, but surely there are some basic needs that CAP members might help fill. 

Of course, if we had a working augmentation program we would already be somewhat positioned to do this.


You don't even want to go there. Furloughed employees would not be happy to see unpaid "volunteers" basically taking food out of their families mouths.

Uh, our elected leaders are already taking food out of their mouths.  Whether CAP does or does not fill in behind them isn't going to move the needle on that. 

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they're not going to outsource AF civilian jobs to CAP members.  We might just help keep the lights on in a few offices.

I'm not worried at all since very, very few CAP members have CAC cards to enable them to do anything on a government computer.
And just about everything is done on the computer these days.
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abdsp51
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« Reply #58 on: October 04, 2013, 03:05:43 AM »

Crazy idea   ---- Any way that CAP might step in to help smooth out some of the civilian furloughs?  Granted, the vast majority of these jobs are going to be beyond what CAP members can pick up that quickly, but surely there are some basic needs that CAP members might help fill. 

Of course, if we had a working augmentation program we would already be somewhat positioned to do this.

You don't even want to go there. Furloughed employees would not be happy to see unpaid "volunteers" basically taking food out of their families mouths.

Uh, our elected leaders are already taking food out of their mouths.  Whether CAP does or does not fill in behind them isn't going to move the needle on that. 

Don't worry, I'm pretty sure they're not going to outsource AF civilian jobs to CAP members.  We might just help keep the lights on in a few offices.

I'm not worried at all since very, very few CAP members have CAC cards to enable them to do anything on a government computer.
And just about everything is done on the computer these days.


Plus the cost and process involved to get them is a PIA.
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SunDog
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« Reply #59 on: October 04, 2013, 04:18:32 AM »

It was two days during a week no one does anything anyway.

It's not like there were crews clamoring to fly and we've been tossing off the walls like World War Z.

Odds are 1/4 of the membership isn't even aware of the shutdown, let alone any cognizance it affects CAP.

Three days, or, about 1% of the days available in the FY. The "update" on eServices still says emergency missions only. I haven't seen any comms changing that, at least not yet.  We tend to goof around early in the FY, flying pro, self-funded check rides, things like that. About 1 in 4 of my checkrides happen in non-CAP aircraft.  On the plus side, I do get a notice to renew my membership on each log-in; looks like they have their priorities in order, per past performance.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #60 on: October 04, 2013, 12:53:27 PM »

The notice was sent to all Wing CCs and Wing Operations staff primary officers.

There is also a pop-up box on WMIRS and the notice is prominent on the WMIRS home page.
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JeffDG
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« Reply #61 on: October 04, 2013, 01:26:50 PM »

The notice was sent to all Wing CCs and Wing Operations staff primary officers.

There is also a pop-up box on WMIRS and the notice is prominent on the WMIRS home page.
They've only cracked open C12s (fka C17s) and C7s (Form 5s) for MPs and TMPs when required for proficiency and maintaining qualifications.

A "VFR Pilot" without the TMP can't book a proficiency flight right now.
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Tim Medeiros
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« Reply #62 on: October 04, 2013, 02:40:30 PM »

It was two days during a week no one does anything anyway.

It's not like there were crews clamoring to fly and we've been tossing off the walls like World War Z.

Odds are 1/4 of the membership isn't even aware of the shutdown, let alone any cognizance it affects CAP.

Three days, or, about 1% of the days available in the FY. The "update" on eServices still says emergency missions only. I haven't seen any comms changing that, at least not yet.  We tend to goof around early in the FY, flying pro, self-funded check rides, things like that. About 1 in 4 of my checkrides happen in non-CAP aircraft.  On the plus side, I do get a notice to renew my membership on each log-in; looks like they have their priorities in order, per past performance.
Yes, because they manually code in a renewal notice each time you specifically log in, instead of having the page run an if statement againt your expiration date to decide whether or not to show the notice, which has been the case for YEARS!
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Eclipse
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« Reply #63 on: October 04, 2013, 02:52:55 PM »

Yes, because they manually code in a renewal notice each time you specifically log in, instead of having the page run an if statement againt your expiration date to decide whether or not to show the notice, which has been the case for YEARS!

There are two easy ways to make that box disappear.

Renew.

Don't renew.

Interesting that an "active pilot" who asserts that "few people go into eservices on a regular basis" is seeing that box, yet isn't in WMIRS to see the operations updates.
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SunDog
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« Reply #64 on: October 04, 2013, 03:22:07 PM »

Are you kidding me? Are you serious? Why would I be in WMIRS  this week with flying shut down? And I was in eServices because my CC asked me to help out with a SUI, and because Eclipse mentioned the ban on self funded was lifted. Silly me, thought there may be some accurate update there. Haven't looked today, but last night the inaccurate memo was still posted on eServices. . .

My point on renewal was NHQ makes certain that gets addressed in the software, then lets the rest of it go to pot. I didn't write one word about the renewal notice being an issue - you're reading between the lines

I don't give a rats butt if they sent a notice to Wing level - if the members don't get the word, then it's a diffrence without distinction. Lameness continues. . .
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #65 on: October 04, 2013, 03:43:51 PM »

The notice is not inaccurate. It is accurate as dated.
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SunDog
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« Reply #66 on: October 04, 2013, 03:59:05 PM »

Amazing. Astouding. Truly, LOL!  and, crying on the inside.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the only representative example you'll need to illuminate the current state of our organization, it's management, and likely future.

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abdsp51
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« Reply #67 on: October 04, 2013, 04:18:49 PM »

Amazing. Astouding. Truly, LOL!  and, crying on the inside.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the only representative example you'll need to illuminate the current state of our organization, it's management, and likely future.

Disgruntled are we?
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SunDog
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« Reply #68 on: October 04, 2013, 04:47:31 PM »

We are not amused, for sure. Exasperated is more like it.

The rest of life calls, however, and the time has come to take my leave. Best of luck to all, and goodbye.
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Майор Хаткевич
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« Reply #69 on: October 04, 2013, 04:50:14 PM »

Well then. How will CAP ever move on?
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Garibaldi
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« Reply #70 on: October 04, 2013, 06:54:58 PM »

Well then. How will CAP ever move on?

The same way it always does, Pinky...we try to take over the world.
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« Reply #71 on: October 05, 2013, 03:11:39 PM »

Limited C15 glider operations have been authorized.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #72 on: October 05, 2013, 11:01:59 PM »

WSJ reporting Pentagon to recall most civilian employees...

http://stream.wsj.com/story/latest-headlines/SS-2-63399/SS-2-346995/

Pentagon Recalls Civilian Workers As Shutdown Persists
Pentagon says it would call most of its 350,000 furloughed civilian workers back to their jobs, concluding
that a recent law allows officials to consider them critical to protecting national security.
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AirDX
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« Reply #73 on: October 06, 2013, 10:11:59 AM »

Front and center on capmembers.com, for those too busy to log in to e-services.

Wow, disseminating news via an organization's website, what will they think of next?
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« Reply #74 on: October 07, 2013, 12:05:48 AM »

Re: Government Shutdown impact to CAP?

For myself, I am taking more 'quiet time' for myself.   8)
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DMinick
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« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2013, 01:11:35 AM »

I have a question about memberships with this!! I know that SR members aren't happening because of the fed background checks. I'm told FBI aren't doing them during this time because they are not life and death. Are cadet app's being processed and approved or no? And what about renewals? Are all of them going through ok, or are they on hold as well? Thanks!!!
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Eclipse
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« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2013, 01:20:45 AM »

I have a question about memberships with this!! I know that SR members aren't happening because of the fed background checks. I'm told FBI aren't doing them during this time because they are not life and death. Are cadet app's being processed and approved or no? And what about renewals? Are all of them going through ok, or are they on hold as well? Thanks!!!

There's been no specific comment on this, but considering all WAs and HQ staff are on furlough, it's doubtful.
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Johnny Yuma
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« Reply #77 on: October 09, 2013, 12:14:12 AM »

Well someone at National's working, I heard on national radio this morning that SDWG's flying SAR missions for missing hunters all over the area affected by the early blizzard they got.
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" Skip a bit, brother."
 
"And then the Lord spake, saying: "First, shalt thou take out the holy pin. Then shalt thou count to three. No more, no less. "Three" shall be the number of the counting, and the number of the counting shall be three. "Four" shalt thou not count, and neither count thou two, execpting that thou then goest on to three. Five is RIGHT OUT. Once the number three, being the third number be reached, then lobbest thou thy Holy Hand Grenade to-wards thy foe, who, being naughty in my sight, shall snuffit. Amen."

Armaments Chapter One, verses nine through twenty-seven:
Eclipse
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« Reply #78 on: October 09, 2013, 12:56:43 AM »

Just cadets.

http://www.keloland.com/newsdetail.cfm/civil-air-patrol-to-search-for-stranded-hunters/?id=154245
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JeffDG
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« Reply #79 on: October 09, 2013, 01:20:11 AM »

Well someone at National's working, I heard on national radio this morning that SDWG's flying SAR missions for missing hunters all over the area affected by the early blizzard they got.
TN had an ELT search late last week.
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Panache
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« Reply #80 on: October 09, 2013, 04:31:46 AM »

I have a question about memberships with this!! I know that SR members aren't happening because of the fed background checks. I'm told FBI aren't doing them during this time because they are not life and death. Are cadet app's being processed and approved or no? And what about renewals? Are all of them going through ok, or are they on hold as well? Thanks!!!

There's been no specific comment on this, but considering all WAs and HQ staff are on furlough, it's doubtful.

Squadron CC just informed me that a new member's FBI check came back okay yesterday, so either they're still working or the results were just backlogged somewhere.
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NCRblues
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« Reply #81 on: October 09, 2013, 05:28:59 AM »

So, I have a question and maybe someone more apt in this area can inform me on it.

Since almost all DOD civilians are back on the job today (to include commissary workers, unit secretaries ext ext) why is NHQ not back up and staffed?

Not trying to say anything bad about the workers at NHQ, just honestly curious as to how our WA's and NHQ paid staff are not back then.
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« Reply #82 on: October 09, 2013, 12:13:30 PM »

just honestly curious as to how our WA's and NHQ paid staff are not back then.

If I understand the situation, the NHQ folks and wing administrators are employees of Civil Air Patrol, Inc., which happens to be funded by the federal government. They are not government employees per se and are thus not paid from the same pot of money.

Also, the recall of DoD employees was limited to those who have some connection with supporting service members. An argument could be made that CAP wouldn't qualify under those conditions even if the employees were actual federal employees.

Having said all that, I could be wrong!
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« Reply #83 on: October 09, 2013, 07:47:55 PM »

Not sure why they had to furlough CAP folks immediately.  Most federal grants I work with are reimbursement deals -- do the work and the feds pay you for it later.  So, not sure why they couldn't keep on working UNLESS there wasn't enough cash in the bank to pay them with what was on hand.  Hopefully, we aren't living that hand to mouth. 

In my state some state folks that work off grants are furloughed and some aren't.  Haven't figured out the difference yet.
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AirDX
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« Reply #84 on: October 10, 2013, 06:08:21 AM »

Heard from the Wing/CC today (he's at Maxwell at the Wing CC course) that a deal had been reached and the WAs would be back to work next Tuesday.
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« Reply #85 on: October 10, 2013, 01:12:22 PM »

Not sure why they had to furlough CAP folks immediately.  Most federal grants I work with are reimbursement deals -- do the work and the feds pay you for it later.  So, not sure why they couldn't keep on working UNLESS there wasn't enough cash in the bank to pay them with what was on hand.  Hopefully, we aren't living that hand to mouth. 

In my state some state folks that work off grants are furloughed and some aren't.  Haven't figured out the difference yet.

CAP has money in the bank to pay employees, however the Air Force would not reimburse CAP after the fact.  It would have been a substancial loss.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #86 on: October 10, 2013, 09:19:19 PM »

NHQ just authorized training for ground and incident staff-only missions (no aircraft) as C99.
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Eclipse
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« Reply #87 on: October 18, 2013, 06:19:09 PM »

Word on the street is OPS NORMAL effective today.  I've already got some emails about missions being approved.
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a2capt
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« Reply #88 on: October 18, 2013, 06:49:42 PM »

Quote
From: "Desmarais, John W." <JDESMARAIS@capnhq.gov>
Date: October 18, 2013 at 11:05:42 AM PDT
Subject: HOT - Resuming Normal Operations


Commanders, we appreciate your patience and support over the last few weeks.  With great pleasure, I’m sending you this message to let you know that we have received approval to begin normal mission operations.  All corporate missions have now been opened up in WMIRS.  Colonel Gloyd has also contacted his Liaison Region personnel so that they can approve not only your routine monthly missions, but any funded mission requests that are in their queue awaiting approval in WMIRS as well.  Hopefully this will allow you to begin your flying this weekend.  Don’t assume that all missions are approved immediately though; make sure that you and/or your key subordinates have missions approved in WMIRS prior to executing.  CAP-USAF, 1st AF, 11th AF, and PACAF will only approve other funded missions when approving makes sense; they will still scrutinize all A and B missions to make sure they're legitimate and satisfy mission needs prior to approving.
 
Some of you had tentative missions that were submitted to 1st Air Force for Air Tasking Order (ATO) approval should we get this authority, and the NOC is contacting your ICs to get those moving if still possible now.  Those missions that would normally require ATO approval that were not in WMIRS to submit will need to wait until the next cycle for approval.  As a reminder, missions and sorties for the next ATO cycle will need to be in the system for the NOC to process them by 0700 CDT Monday morning, the 21st of October, so that they can be processed and approved in time to start executing them Wednesday the 23rd of October.
 
I have copied your vice commanders and key operations staff so that they are aware as well.  Have a great weekend!
 
v/r
 
John D.
JOHN W. DESMARAIS, Sr.
Director of OperationsCivil Air Patrol National Headquarters
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JeffDG
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« Reply #89 on: October 18, 2013, 07:37:26 PM »

I wish NHQ would stop using "HOT" as the prefix for their e-mails.

Think of the Cyber Patriot e-mail:

HOT - Cyber...

Well...that start to a subject line could be read in a somewhat different way...
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« Reply #90 on: October 18, 2013, 07:46:44 PM »

Think of the Cyber Patriot e-mail:

HOT - Cyber...

Well...that start to a subject line could be read in a somewhat different way...

And likely end up in some spam filters...
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Flying Pig
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« Reply #91 on: October 21, 2013, 11:59:32 AM »

When I was active in CAP I had my work email listed.   "HOT" could get me a call from IT :)
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NIN
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« Reply #92 on: October 21, 2013, 12:20:31 PM »

When I was active in CAP I had my work email listed.   "HOT" could get me a call from IT :)



"Its HOT! [darn] HOT!"
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Darin Ninness, Lt Col, CAP
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