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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: CAP SENIOR OATH
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Poll
Question: Should SMs recite an oath at meetings, Would this help with Professionalism?
Yes With Tweaking
Yes Sir!
No
Dont even go there!
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Author Topic: CAP SENIOR OATH  (Read 3758 times)
SAR-EMT1
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« on: March 23, 2007, 05:01:48 AM »

OK, I was thinking to myself: with all the hype about increasing our professionalism what could be a "simple aid" or an easy reminder of our purpose?

I thought next about my days as a cadet, the new-ish safety pledge and then it hit me: An oath of Service/Office/ Commission for Senior Members to recite upon joining/ receiving first promotion.
This Could be restated - in short form- before each meeting same as cadets do.

I know that we don't have commissions per se and that we are not - at this time as 'military' as the cadet program. My simple question is:
Can such a thing make a difference?

If yes: would you mind stating a sample oath?
If No: Can it  be tweaked/renamed to work?
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C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
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AlphaSigOU
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« Reply #1 on: March 23, 2007, 06:48:22 AM »

Here's one that appeared on the old Civil Air Portal when there was a discussion about a 'commissioning' oath of office for CAP senior members:

Quote
I, [state your full name] having been appointed a [grade] in the Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear [or affirm] that I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol. I agree to be guided by and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and the rules and regulations of the Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.
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Maj Charles E. (Chuck) Corway, CAP
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Psicorp
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« Reply #2 on: March 23, 2007, 08:09:19 AM »

Here's one that appeared on the old Civil Air Portal when there was a discussion about a 'commissioning' oath of office for CAP senior members:

Quote
I, [state your full name] having been appointed a [grade] in the Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear [or affirm] that I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol. I agree to be guided by and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and the rules and regulations of the Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.


Interesting.  I do think there should be some sort of commissioning  appointing ceremonial oath when a SM becomes an Officer, and I think that one is a good place to start.  I would change it a bit and leave out the ending, but that's just me.
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Jamie Kahler, Capt., CAP
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floridacyclist
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« Reply #3 on: March 23, 2007, 08:35:16 AM »

Or make the ending optional...that part is kind of touchy.

I for one think a bigger deal needs to be made when someone crosses that line into officership as that is the first advancement they've made in what is hoped to be a long and fruitful CAP career. I think an oath of commissioning would be great to go along with the presentation of their first bar or even Level 1/presentation of their Membership Ribbon.

I'm not a big fan of mandatory oaths at meetings and such. Ever since our new dept head took over, he has made everyone recite a pledge at the start of every class and meeting promising to be faithful and true, putting the public interest and safety ahead of our own comfort and lives if needed (it's very similar to the Army oath as does our Code of Conduct, not surprising since he is retired Army).

To be honest, I still don't feel any more professional since we started doing it.

Just like putting us into ties is supposed to make us more professional...all it does is give the inmates a handle.
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Gene Floyd, Capt CAP
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A.Member
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« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2007, 10:38:33 AM »

I'd have no heartburn over some sort of oath upon initial membership but regularly reciting oaths and what not at meetings is silly and ineffective (and I say that as respectfully as possible). 

Simply conducting organized professional meetings, which include uniforms, agendas, opening and closing formations, etc., is much better approach.  It's a cultural thing.  If you have a professional culture, your people will feel professional and conduct themselves in a professional manner.
« Last Edit: March 23, 2007, 11:48:51 AM by A.Member » Logged
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pixelwonk
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« Reply #5 on: March 23, 2007, 10:54:48 AM »

Think about how much you loved doing the safety pledge at every meeting.  Add the PoA and the new Senior oath and you're spending a significant time just reciting oaths.  Especially if your cadets recite theirs before or after.

It's a fine Oath of Appointment  but at every meeting? Dare I say that sounds pretty [old-time euphemism for happy]

might strike duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, for duties of the apointment upon which I am about to enter.
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FARRIER
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« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2007, 11:27:46 AM »

I'd have no heartburn over some sort of oath upon initial membership but regularly reciting oaths and what not at meetings is silly and ineffective (and I say that as respectfully as possible). 

Simply conducting organized professional meetings, which include agendas, opening and closing formations, etc., is much better approach.  It's a cultural thing.  If you have a professional culture, your people will feel professional and conduct themselves in a professional manner.


We actually agree on this point.  ;D
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Fifinella
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« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2007, 12:10:51 PM »

I'd have no heartburn over some sort of oath upon initial membership but regularly reciting oaths and what not at meetings is silly and ineffective (and I say that as respectfully as possible). 

Simply conducting organized professional meetings, which include agendas, opening and closing formations, etc., is much better approach.  It's a cultural thing.  If you have a professional culture, your people will feel professional and conduct themselves in a professional manner.


We actually agree on this point.  ;D
Ditto.
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Judy LaValley, Maj, CAP
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afgeo4
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« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2007, 03:00:04 PM »

I would like such an oath to be administered at the initial appointment to 2nd Lt, but I think that reciting it at meetings would make it as mundane, routine, and meaningless as the safety pledge once was. We tend to take for granted the things we do on daily basis. I would support the riciting of this at every promotion from 2nd Lt to MajGen though. Perhaps it would re-instill the pride and conviction that comes with such a promotion. It would also add some seriousness to the procedure that is often more of a "gift-basket giving" ceremony than a military promotion. I would also approve of a promotion certificate with such an oath on it to be signed by the officer promoted and by his commanding authority similar to how it's done in the military.
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GEORGE LURYE
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« Reply #9 on: March 23, 2007, 03:04:10 PM »

For some who want to be military OK.  Many people join not to gain the military feel though.  Make it something they don't have to take time to memorize.

Why not just brand them with a CAP branding iorn?  >:D
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FARRIER
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« Reply #10 on: March 23, 2007, 03:13:27 PM »

A good question here. I'm asking only those who actually hold or once held commissioned rank in the armed forces, is the oath taken upon commissioning only?

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Pylon
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« Reply #11 on: March 23, 2007, 03:14:24 PM »

Should there be an oath for senior members?   
I think so.  
(And not that "membership agreement posing as a three paragraph oath" on the CAPF 12)  An oath for new SMs, whether administered at time of application, or time of promotion to an officer grade, I think would improve a sense of belonging and a sense of obligation to the organization.   I'm all for it.


Should senior members have to recite things at meetings? 
I don't think so.  
I don't think reciting anything conjures up more professionalism or awareness or whatever you're looking for.  Just look at the safety pledge for a perfect example.  It was widely despised and did it actually make us more safe?  I doubt it.   We can be professional and have productive meetings without reciting an "oath" or a "pledge" at each meeting.

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Michael F. Kieloch, Maj, CAP
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afgeo4
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« Reply #12 on: March 23, 2007, 03:22:47 PM »

For some who want to be military OK.  Many people join not to gain the military feel though.  Make it something they don't have to take time to memorize.

Why not just brand them with a CAP branding iorn?  >:D
So you're saying there are members who join CAP because they don't want the military feel around them? And these members want to make sure they don't have to memorize anything while they're among our ranks?

Perhaps your unit should rethink who they're recruiting and why!
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GEORGE LURYE
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« Reply #13 on: March 23, 2007, 03:38:23 PM »

So you're saying there are members who join CAP because they don't want the military feel around them? And these members want to make sure they don't have to memorize anything while they're among our ranks?

Perhaps your unit should rethink who they're recruiting and why!

It's stuff like that, that chaps my ass.

as an aside:
The same problem exists in the Scouts, even thought they are not as militar-esque as our organization, there is still a level of military-like esprit de corp that exists in their program that most leaders in scouting take a blind eye to in regards to how the local units are run. No sense of pride in the uniform, or reciting the respective scout oath, etc.

I'll talk to my co-workers about CAP when they tell me they have kids old enough to get in the program and they chirp back "Oh heck no, my kids are going to have NOTHING to do with the military" and the conversation ends there. Oi.

But back to the subject...

I'm getting my gold bars on the 27th, and would love to have something to recite.  ;)
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LtCol White
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« Reply #14 on: March 23, 2007, 03:56:34 PM »

At the LAWG HQ meetings the oath that is recited after the Pledge of Allegiance is the CAP Safety Pledge. This seems reasonable to me.
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LtCol David P. White CAP   
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Fifinella
Seasoned Member

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« Reply #15 on: March 23, 2007, 04:33:09 PM »

A good question here. I'm asking only those who actually hold or once held commissioned rank in the armed forces, is the oath taken upon commissioning only?


No, it's taken again at every promotion.
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Judy LaValley, Maj, CAP
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« Reply #16 on: March 23, 2007, 06:34:50 PM »

A good question here. I'm asking only those who actually hold or once held commissioned rank in the armed forces, is the oath taken upon commissioning only?


No, it's taken again at every promotion.

Thank you
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lordmonar
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« Reply #17 on: March 23, 2007, 07:34:12 PM »

Here's one that appeared on the old Civil Air Portal when there was a discussion about a 'commissioning' oath of office for CAP senior members:

Quote
I, [state your full name] having been appointed a [grade] in the Civil Air Patrol, do solemnly swear [or affirm] that I voluntarily subscribe to the objectives and purposes of the Civil Air Patrol. I agree to be guided by and comply with the Constitution, Bylaws and the rules and regulations of the Civil Air Patrol; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter, SO HELP ME GOD.

The only problem I have with this oath is that it is just an oath to CAP and nothing larger.  It does not swear anything to the USAF, Congress, or the American People.

How about
Quote
I, [state your name] do solemnly swear to support my community, my state and my nation.  Obey the orders the Board of Governors and the officers appointed over me in accordance with the regulations of the Civil Air Patrol.  I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter.

And I voted not to reciting this at each meeting.  Adults do need to a reminder of why we are here but not every meeting.  Cadets are a different order all togther so it's okay for them.

I do thin that an oath of office should be said at each promotion.
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PATRICK M. HARRIS, MSgt, CAP
Nellis Composite Squadron
ZigZag911
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2007, 12:37:33 AM »

I would like such an oath to be administered at the initial appointment to 2nd Lt, but I think that reciting it at meetings would make it as mundane, routine, and meaningless as the safety pledge once was. We tend to take for granted the things we do on daily basis. I would support the riciting of this at every promotion from 2nd Lt to MajGen though. Perhaps it would re-instill the pride and conviction that comes with such a promotion. It would also add some seriousness to the procedure that is often more of a "gift-basket giving" ceremony than a military promotion. I would also approve of a promotion certificate with such an oath on it to be signed by the officer promoted and by his commanding authority similar to how it's done in the military.

Concur.

An annual renewal ceremony -- maybe for CAP Birthday == might be appropriate.

Reciting at every meeting would render it as meaningful as the safety pledge!!!
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SAR-EMT1
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« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2007, 06:18:03 AM »

Lot of great MOJO hear.. Im going to create a new thread from this as to a Commissioning OATH. Feel free to bring your thoughts and ideas for such over there.
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C. A. Edgar
AUX USCG Flotilla 8-8
Capt. GLR-IL-328
Firefighter, Paramedic, College Student
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CAP Talk  |  General Discussion  |  Membership  |  Topic: CAP SENIOR OATH
 


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