CAP babysitting service

[Garibaldi]

This goes both ways......if family members (of any age) at a meeting are deferential to the mission...fix it. 
If this means ban them....that is one solution.
If this means providing them with non-CAP activities....that is one solution.

So being deferential is a bad thing??  You confuse me.   

I think he means "detrimental".

[lordmonar]

This goes both ways......if family members (of any age) at a meeting are deferential to the mission...fix it. 
If this means ban them....that is one solution.
If this means providing them with non-CAP activities....that is one solution.

So being deferential is a bad thing??  You confuse me.   

I think he means "detrimental".

Stupid spell check! 

[Critical AOA]

There is an incredibly huge difference between getting a babysitter and building a new building.  One is an organizational challenge and the other is a personal responsibility.  There is no comparison whatsoever in concept, complexity, scope or cost.

[Critical AOA]

This goes both ways......if family members (of any age) at a meeting are deferential to the mission...fix it. 
If this means ban them....that is one solution.
If this means providing them with non-CAP activities....that is one solution.

So being deferential is a bad thing??  You confuse me.   

I think he means "detrimental".

Stupid spell check! 

Spellcheck, no.  Autocorrect, very likely.   Yeah, I'm being picky.   

[lordmonar]

There is an incredibly huge difference between getting a babysitter and building a new building.  One is an organizational challenge and the other is a personal responsibility.  There is no comparison whatsoever in concept, complexity, scope or cost.

Not in the context that SARMED was using it.

"just get a baby sitter" is completely ignoring the actual situation of the member.  It is easy for someone here on CAPTALK to just chuck out a quick and easy solution and draw lines in the sand with out knowing all the situation.

[Eclipse]

"just get a baby sitter" is completely ignoring the actual situation of the member.  It is easy for someone here on CAPTALK to just chuck out a quick and easy solution and draw lines in the sand with out knowing all the situation.

For the sake of the discussion, why is this relevent?

It doesn't matter >why< you can't come, you just can't come.  Your life circumstance, at the moment, precludes your participation.  No harm, no foul.
We'll see yo on the other side.

We spend far too much time concerned about people's "private circumstances" to the detriment of the others in the room who just show up and
want to get their CAP on.

[lordmonar]

Okay......why do you care how other people run their squadron?  If they accept the liability/hassle/distraction of having kids around.....what should we here on CAPTALK care.

Like Wise if YOU were to just say "sorry....you can't come to meetings any more"....I guess that's good too.

[Luis R. Ramos]

I don't know, Lord...

Maybe for or because  of liability issues, for starters? If CAP regs say "12 years," and you have a 6-year-old running around and he gets hurt, corporate defense cannot be "the CAP discourages it, so we are not responsible." Lawyers will find "Commanders at a higher level should have known about those children present at meetings and put a stop to it."

Flyer

[sarmed1]

.......We spend far too much time concerned about people's "private circumstances" to the detriment of the others in the room who just show up and want to get their CAP on.

Lack of people and lack of participation of those people and their sometimes extensive and useful skill sets is exactly part of the problem.  Last time I checked CAP depends on people to make themselves a viable organization in regards to performing both its internal and external missions.  Being concerned with peoples "private circumstances" is part of personnel management and retention in an organization, especially one that offers no other tangible benefit to participation besides a pat on the back.

I mean my experience may differ from yours, but I havent seen a squadron group or wing that has the luxury of telling people that they can only accept 100% help 100% of the time on our schedule and not yours; anything less and you can hit the road.....

mk

[MajorM]

One approach to leadership is to engage your followers, try to find their impediments to success (which are often "private circumstances"), and then help them by bringing resources and authority to address those impediments so everyone wins.

Another is to say "not my problem", see ya on the other side.  Let me know when you figure it out.

Both styles exist... I just know which type I'd spend my time and energy following, especially in a volunteer capacity.

[sarmed1]

There is an incredibly huge difference between getting a babysitter and building a new building.  One is an organizational challenge and the other is a personal responsibility.  There is no comparison whatsoever in concept, complexity, scope or cost.

Do you know the amount of money that babysitting and daycare costs?

For example.  I and my wife have 3 kids, 1, 3 & 5.  We use a combination of part time daycare, family members and the occasional free lance sitter just to allow us to work full time. (in order to keep costs low: its not exactly easy to coordinate that schedule either..."complexity") But, just talking cost, using our part time daycare costs as a guide toward full time coverage  8 hours per day 5 days a week,  the cost of that alone is approximately $27300 a year.   

For argument sake; just in CAP approximate costs:  the average sitter needs 3 hours (1/2 hour each way, 2 hour meeting) for a meeting night, 50 meetings a year.  1 weekend activity a quarter (only daytime participation, so I can go home to watch the kiddos overnight, I am using 8 hour day as a guide)  I pay my sitters $15 and hour: $2250 for meetings and $960 for weekend participation.

So just in CAP participation that's about $3200 (ish) just to be there.... on your simple solution of "...hire a baby sitter" 
What would your retention be like if you told your squadron they had to pay $3200 a year in dues just to participate?.....

mk

[lordmonar]

I don't know, Lord...

Maybe for or because  of liability issues, for starters? If CAP regs say "12 years," and you have a 6-year-old running around and he gets hurt, corporate defense cannot be "the CAP discourages it, so we are not responsible." Lawyers will find "Commanders at a higher level should have known about those children present at meetings and put a stop to it."

Flyer

That is a valid argument.  But one in which the risk is fairly low.

[a2capt]

..and how is it different than someone showing up for the first time to join with younger siblings in tow?

At least if they're around "often" (enough) they know the routine.

We have a few younger ones that are there regularly, with parents, and it's basically separate from the meeting, we have an area that parents can sit and wait, no one interferes, it works, some drive an hour to come to our meeting. they wait, eventually they figure out that there's more of them coming from the same direction and they carpool differently each week.

We get future cadets that way, too.