Service coat question.

[captalkuser]

Alright so.. I have been granted the ability to formally request NCO's be allowed to wear the service coat at squadron meetings/events. How should I go about doing this is the best way possible?

[Garibaldi]

Alright so.. I have been granted the ability to formally request NCO's be allowed to wear the service coat at squadron meetings/events. How should I go about doing this is the best way possible?

TO THE COMMANDER:

1. I, (name), formally request a waiver for cadet NCOs to be allowed to wear the Service Coat at squadron meetings and events.

2. Cadet NCOs are the front-line between the cadet officers and cadet corps, and should represent the NCO grades as best they can.

3. Cadet NCOs should be prepared to begin the process of becoming cadet officers, and as such, should be allowed to wear the service coat.

4. Allowing cadet NCOs to wear the service coat will provide the cadet airmen something to aspire to. Cadet airmen will be allowed to wear the short sleeve blues shirt with or without tie depending on the occasion and season, and the long sleeve shirt with tie in other cases.

Respectfully,

Cadet (name)

[lordmonar]

That or you just knock on his door and ask "Sir you got a couple of minutes....I'd like to talk to you about our uniform policy."

Good Luck.

[Storm Chaser]

If the commander says "UOD for C/AB is BDU's, C/Amn-C/CMSgt is Short Sleeve Blues, for C/2d Lt-C/Col Service dress"  He is not "restricting or prohibiting" he is simply setting the UOD.

And if he says C/AB are NOT allowed to wear Blues, never, under any circustances, then he's restricting cadets from wearing not just a valid, but the basic uniform in CAP.

Then we are really screwed......you question if they are equipped to make these kinds of decisions.....these are the same guys launching ES sorties and making money decisions....not to mention promotion decisions.  Your argument breaks down.

I think Eclipse explained this well. I've seen commanders in composite squadrons that are very proficient with Operations and Emergency Services, but know nothing about the Cadet Programs and yet they're the ones establishing policies that affect their cadets.

Bull.
Each squadron commander and down to the shop chief can make these sort of decisions. A wing commander getting involved in what the Comm Squadron Commander is doing about UNIFORM OF THE DAY is just asinine. 

As usual, you're making blanket statements here. Squadron commanders ARE allowed to establish policies that are in line with current regulations and higher headquarters policies. But they can't just do whatever they want. They DO respond to the group and/or wing commander.

The real USAF usually just ignores it......for the most part.

Who's full of it now? I don't know what Air Force you used to belong to, but that's not how we do business in mine. Besides, as a MSgt you were not responsible to establish squadron policy, but to follow it and ensure that airmen under your supervision did as well. Oh, that's right... you just ignored policy. I forgot. Maybe you should recommend that cadets do the same.

I'm done.

[lordmonar]

When I said the "ignore it" I meant that each squadron has their own policies that are in line with wing policy.   Within that context they police their own and just ignore what everyone else is doing.

As for the UOD......I still don't know why you are taking what I said out of context.   Setting the UOD is NOT forbidding anyone from wearing other uniforms when they are appropriate.  In their squadron.....at their meetings.....it is their UOD.  If the squadron policy is C/AB's wear BDU's......and then wing is having some event where the UOD is short sleeve blues.....then that is the UOD....but come Monday evening....the UOD is BDUs.


As for your and Eclipse's assessment of commander's understanding of the regulations.....If they are not competent enough to understand their authority to set UOD policies for their own squadron......it is criminal to allow them to continue to make operational decisions.

I think you all are just making too big of a deal with this.

The squadron has a policy.....good, bad or indifferent.......the commander has that authority.  We cannot/should not second guess that decisions....unless we are in that commander's chain of command.

This is not each and everyone just doing what they want.....this is each commander and supervisor making the call what is best, within the constraints of the regulations, and moving on.

[CAPAPRN]

As previously mentioned- this really seems more like a communication problem. A USN Petty Officer would never BUY a set of Choker Whites- let alone wear them- because the Navy spends considerable time explaining all the different uniform combos- which BITD of khakis and bluejeans was considerable. What the Cadet seems most upset about is buying the coat and then getting told don't wear it. Policies that are properly communicated, as well as explained are far more likely to be followed and "bought" in to then policies that aren't.

[Eclipse]

As for your and Eclipse's assessment of commander's understanding of the regulations.....If they are not competent enough to understand their authority to set UOD policies for their own squadron......it is criminal to allow them to continue to make operational decisions.

I don't disagree, doesn't change the current state of the CAP "system" for appointing commanders, which involves "respiration and gravitational attraction in proper proportion".

I think you're making too little - and also giving credit where credit is not due.

For every unit with a sharp NCO either in charge or in a position of influence, there are 10 (or 50) where the leadership has zero military experience, and / or a few who have the experience
but no idea how to apply it to a volunteer organization.  Further to that, the inconsistently trained membership rarely is properly instructed on AOR's and the limits of a commander's authority,
they simply accept what they are told as writ of law, and then proceed to espouse that opinion at any and every activity they attend.

It's an interesting phenomenon this "reading and following regulations" - you will never find yourself at a disadvantage when you do that, but people still feel the need to make things up
or "do what they will" because they "know better".

Yes a CC can absolutely set the UOD, but making up silly policies about which grades get to wear jackets and which don't just annoys the monkey, especially when you consider that
since a lot of cadets, including cadet officers, never own a jacket, and since you can't require they buy one, you can't enforce the policy anyway.