The 200 hour per aircraft goal

[a2capt]

The person who moves the aircraft could certainly update the aircraftclubs.com listing to show where the aircraft is actually parked.

Two phone calls saved.

Not safety current? Do you go to the meeting much? Doesn't sound like it. Currency lasts as long as 60 days, if it's done early in the month. Like Day 1.

Different avionics? Sounds like you don't fly much, if you have to make call to ask which button to push.
Make notes on your kneeboard content.

Another phone call saved.

As an FRO, I'm fine with the email coming first. That tells me to expect a call. I'm usually near a computer or connection, and I keep CAPF99 on my devices, and "last resort", a pen and form nearby.

I don't need 27 phone calls, I release the flight after confirming what I'm supposed to. I am not a dispatcher. I'm either releasing you, or not.

Maybe the Wing needs a few less technophobic FROs?

Tach hours not entered? That's a procedural problem. Sure, maybe it should require it. But that can be fixed with policy too. "You don't do this, you don't fly next time."

I'm not even going to get into the bread and milk run. If you're telling me that the FRO expects to be called back, and by virtue knows when your flight is, why are they making themselves so hard to get ahold of? Back to "Maybe the Wing needs new FROs"

I stopped reading at the fantasy line.

But I'll tell you how I do it as an FRO.

I see the email. I know to expect a call.
I get the call, we talk about it.
Since I'm a pilot I not only know what they're doing, I can absolutely relate to it.
I.M.S.A.F.E. is covered, other specifics, a little chit chat. "Your released".

..and they call me back when the flight is done, of if they never went, etc.
I occasionally check flight radar feeds to see if they're in the air, if they landed, etc.

Easy peasy.

Sounds like you've got control freaks making things harder than they need to be.

[Eclipse]

That entire process is a Charlie-Foxtrot of members and staff who are out of the loop, don't trust each other, aren't attending meetings, and
have issues with technology.

It isn't even slightly typical, so there's not much point in going through it point-by-point.
As a2capt says, most of it can simply be eliminated, especially all the redundant contacts. 
Call an FRO to tell them they received an email and you'll be calling them later?  Seriously?

The suggestion that you can change a mission symbol mid-flight, especially from an AFAM to a corporate, indicates you really don't understand that process at all.

[Eclipse]

These two issues are pretty critical, though, and need comment:

...we reserve the aircraft in AircraftClubs.com.

WMIRS has had an aircraft scheduling module since 2011 - why isn't your wing using this?

This time of year, I need to confirm the airplane is actually parked where it's usually based.

The aircraft should never be >anywhere< except as indicated in the "Aircraft Status and Support Resources Reporting System" (unless, of course it's actually in use
in which case it's not available).  This is a national system intended to allow staff at all levels and other wings and regions to do reporting and planning for missions and activities.

Your wing is not using the proper tools as provided. That's not a "system problem" that's a "we know better problem"

[SunDog]

Now I have to take most of an evening away from home for a 10 minute Power Point on downed power lines? Is it of some value? A little. Maybe. Not much, certainly not worth the time it cost me. I can go on-line, save the drive, or use a non-CAP event. But then I'm back in eServices (where no one wants to be) hacking away at a bad interface, hoping I get it right, and someone in my chain of command remembers to approve it.

Are you saying you don't want to go to a meeting, but you go for the 15 minute safety brief?

Howdy Aux; no, I like the meetings. Just sometimes I've been out and about for CAP quite a bit - the CC and Ops have what they need from me, and I from them, for the next week or two. Take a night off?

[Майор Хаткевич]

Make your night off not a safety brief night?

[SunDog]

The person who moves the aircraft could certainly update the aircraftclubs.com listing to show where the aircraft is actually parked.

Two phone calls saved.

Not safety current? Do you go to the meeting much? Doesn't sound like it. Currency lasts as long as 60 days, if it's done early in the month. Like Day 1.

Different avionics? Sounds like you don't fly much, if you have to make call to ask which button to push.
Make notes on your kneeboard content.

Another phone call saved.

As an FRO, I'm fine with the email coming first. That tells me to expect a call. I'm usually near a computer or connection, and I keep CAPF99 on my devices, and "last resort", a pen and form nearby.

I don't need 27 phone calls, I release the flight after confirming what I'm supposed to. I am not a dispatcher. I'm either releasing you, or not.

Maybe the Wing needs a few less technophobic FROs?

Tach hours not entered? That's a procedural problem. Sure, maybe it should require it. But that can be fixed with policy too. "You don't do this, you don't fly next time."

I'm not even going to get into the bread and milk run. If you're telling me that the FRO expects to be called back, and by virtue knows when your flight is, why are they making themselves so hard to get ahold of? Back to "Maybe the Wing needs new FROs"

I stopped reading at the fantasy line.

But I'll tell you how I do it as an FRO.

I see the email. I know to expect a call.
I get the call, we talk about it.
Since I'm a pilot I not only know what they're doing, I can absolutely relate to it.
I.M.S.A.F.E. is covered, other specifics, a little chit chat. "Your released".

..and they call me back when the flight is done, of if they never went, etc.
I occasionally check flight radar feeds to see if they're in the air, if they landed, etc.

Easy peasy.

Sounds like you've got control freaks making things harder than they need to be.

The person who moves the aircraft could certainly update the aircraftclubs.com listing to show where the aircraft is actually parked.

Two phone calls saved.

Not safety current? Do you go to the meeting much? Doesn't sound like it. Currency lasts as long as 60 days, if it's done early in the month. Like Day 1.

Different avionics? Sounds like you don't fly much, if you have to make call to ask which button to push.
Make notes on your kneeboard content.

Another phone call saved.

As an FRO, I'm fine with the email coming first. That tells me to expect a call. I'm usually near a computer or connection, and I keep CAPF99 on my devices, and "last resort", a pen and form nearby.

I don't need 27 phone calls, I release the flight after confirming what I'm supposed to. I am not a dispatcher. I'm either releasing you, or not.

Maybe the Wing needs a few less technophobic FROs?

Tach hours not entered? That's a procedural problem. Sure, maybe it should require it. But that can be fixed with policy too. "You don't do this, you don't fly next time."

I'm not even going to get into the bread and milk run. If you're telling me that the FRO expects to be called back, and by virtue knows when your flight is, why are they making themselves so hard to get ahold of? Back to "Maybe the Wing needs new FROs"

I stopped reading at the fantasy line.

But I'll tell you how I do it as an FRO.

I see the email. I know to expect a call.
I get the call, we talk about it.
Since I'm a pilot I not only know what they're doing, I can absolutely relate to it.
I.M.S.A.F.E. is covered, other specifics, a little chit chat. "Your released".

..and they call me back when the flight is done, of if they never went, etc.
I occasionally check flight radar feeds to see if they're in the air, if they landed, etc.

Easy peasy.

Sounds like you've got control freaks making things harder than they need to be.

Hello A2,

Yes, I fly a lot. I usually make one meeting a month. Can't always, not and fly a lot too. Reference time budget.

But I don't fly the airplane from the other side of the state. And as I said, our 182's vary greatly in avioincs and instrumentation. NHQ has the data. Share it? I can't make notes on what I can't see.  I have a good deal of expereince with avioincs, as a user, and a maintainer. I'll do my research, if I know what to look-up.

Yes, the last guy could update the location in A/C.com, assuming he has the rights.  But if WMIRS knows where it landed, why repeat data entry? And hope the guy remembers, or has the access to do ther update. NHQ has the data, share it?

And I'm probably not up for grouding a guy who forgets to enter tach time. Not a proportional response, is it? And when are you gonna un-ground him? Leave him a voice mail, maybe he'll call back in a few years.  Good chance we won't be hearing from him again. As you say, correcting the bug in the software is a better idea.

[SunDog]

Make your night off not a safety brief night?

Or fly one less day? See what I mean? Quarterly, maybe? Two more times to do ops, two less times to learn how to slice a bagel safely?

I'm really trying to opush the point that time available for CAP is finite - we can spend it smarter, can't we. Or, NHQ can at least LLOK at it, devote a few $$$ to reviewing the ROI on what we're doing.

[SunDog]

These two issues are pretty critical, though, and need comment:

...we reserve the aircraft in AircraftClubs.com.

WMIRS has had an aircraft scheduling module since 2011 - why isn't your wing using this?

This time of year, I need to confirm the airplane is actually parked where it's usually based.

The aircraft should never be >anywhere< except as indicated in the "Aircraft Status and Support Resources Reporting System" (unless, of course it's actually in use
in which case it's not available).  This is a national system intended to allow staff at all levels and other wings and regions to do reporting and planning for missions and activities.

Your wing is not using the proper tools as provided. That's not a "system problem" that's a "we know better problem"

I believe we use AircraftCLubs.com becasue of repeated failuresbugs with the CAP product. I remember a general revolt, but not the details.  Wasn't my call, but I'm OK with  A/C/com - it works. it.

Eclipse, I get it, people are supposed to do things correctly, by the book.  But NHQ has the data. Share it? Record a home base for the airplane. One column in a DB.  If the last landing airport is something else, give me a pop-up saying so? I'm buliding a sortie! NHQ systems know weher the airplane is! It's not in the usual, location! So write ten lines of code and give me a heads when buliding the sortie?

I gotta go glom through some byzantine navigation? Picture new guy - if we keep him long enough.

This can be improved. I think doing so will get us more flying hours.

[Eclipse]

Make your night off not a safety brief night?

Or fly one less day? See what I mean?

Yes, you have plenty of excuses and mental hoops, but can't see where the real problem is.

Eclipse, I get it, people are supposed to do things correctly, by the book.  But NHQ has the data. Share it? Record a home base for the airplane. One column in a DB.  If the last landing airport is something else, give me a pop-up saying so? I'm buliding a sortie! NHQ systems know weher the airplane is! It's not in the usual, location! So write ten lines of code and give me a heads when buliding the sortie?

You keep indicating "where the plane is". 

Ours come back to their home airport, or the system is updated.  Not rocket science. 
I literally can't see how your planes could be moving that much and not being where they are supposed to be.

In my wing, if a plane isn't where it's supposed to be, that's a serious issue, and the POC is held responsible.

[SunDog]

That entire process is a Charlie-Foxtrot of members and staff who are out of the loop, don't trust each other, aren't attending meetings, and
have issues with technology.

It isn't even slightly typical, so there's not much point in going through it point-by-point.
As a2capt says, most of it can simply be eliminated, especially all the redundant contacts. 
Call an FRO to tell them they received an email and you'll be calling them later?  Seriously?

The suggestion that you can change a mission symbol mid-flight, especially from an AFAM to a corporate, indicates you really don't understand that process at all.

You are correct, it is FUBAR.  If you really, truly, believe it isn't typical, congratulations on the organization of your Wing. With respect, you ain't flying where I fly. It isn't always that bad with my Wing, either. But it is NOT WAY unusual, either. This wasn't fiction, this was experience. I didn't pick the worst ones, becasue I didn't want to overstate the case.

Please see my bigger point - the policy, processes, and implementation we have don't fit the world our pilots work in. You are correct, that if everyone got their heads around the current method, and embraced it, we' be good to go.

But the present method appears to be a pain in the butt for too large a portion of our pilot pool. They ain't buying in, or not enough, anyway? It APPEARS to take too much time and attention - the rewards aren't justified by the effort. And it isn't laziness, it's just value judgements by people who think their time is being wasted on badly designed processes.

Heck, CAP could probably ADD to the process and time required, if they got our buy-in, if what they wanted made sense.  The least costly part part of a project is communications.

I've suggetsed that sharing some data, at the sortie build point, in a convenient manner, has merit. What I didn't say out loud is, doing so doesn't put any money or kudos in NHQ's basket - and I'm left with the impression that a donkey like WMIRS (or eServices ) is O.K. to foist off on the membership.

PS
I didn't mean change from A mission to a lower symbol, in flight. I suggested it would have been nice to convert my B12 to a C17, once it was clear the B12 was a no-go.  If that's a big lift regulation wise, that's a mighty unweildy reg. . .

Also, let's drop the home safe call, too. If I get to WMIRS within two hours of my down time, you get the email I closed it out. I'm not dead, and we don't have to talk.  Unless I'm low time CAP pilot (whatever that number turns out to be). To your point of view, I admit, the homee safe call isn't much of a hassle. I'm not pressed for time or attention cycles at that point.

And adding sorties for a fuel stop. Prop stops, new sortie? Is that to bump up the sortie count? Help push a budget, or look like we're busier? Semi-ethical lying? Or is it legit, to count starter cycles, maybe?  Here's a real world - heading to home base, and know the fuel pumps are closed. Land out, about 15 minutes away, fuel. Start up, fly home. How many guys are entering both sorties. All? Most? Some? I will confess, I enter them all, A, B, or C.  But someone may be entering "estimates" in the book and WMIRS.

Will it kill our number-pumping to allow a "A brief stop, for the purpose of re-fueling only, duing the termination leg of a sortie" to be in one sortie? Not a big, big deal, just a few less minutes of writing in the book and paging through WMIRS.

I don't want to burn our house down, or throw out all the FRO's, or be cavalier about our aircraft or safety. And if Senior Managament doesn't think we have a pressing problem with hours, and is fine with whatever the current state of pilot attrition is, so be it.

I want to say CAP has the people to look at this, find ways to do it smarter, easier, and just as (or more) safely. 

Look to lighten it up a bit - here's a funny one:

I called for a release - the FRO was about 70-80 miles from my location; he had a thunder storm right on top of his house, so he didn't want to release me. I was in severe clear, on the backside of the line, heading the other way. He was polite, but adamant. I worked it a bit, but no joy. I was about to blow him off, make an other call. . .

He was on his computer, though, so I got him on AWC and walked him through pulling up the radar. I almost made it, but he was sure the ground clutter around the radar site was rain. Couldn't budge him on the ground clutter, or that it was actaully legal to fly in rain. He was sure I was wrong about that. . . he was kind enough to look up a few FRO numbers for me on the spot, and not take offense. We joke about it today. . .

[SunDog]

Make your night off not a safety brief night?

Or fly one less day? See what I mean?

Yes, you have plenty of excuses and mental hoops, but can't see where the real problem is.

Eclipse, I get it, people are supposed to do things correctly, by the book.  But NHQ has the data. Share it? Record a home base for the airplane. One column in a DB.  If the last landing airport is something else, give me a pop-up saying so? I'm buliding a sortie! NHQ systems know weher the airplane is! It's not in the usual, location! So write ten lines of code and give me a heads when buliding the sortie?

You keep indicating "where the plane is". 

Ours come back to their home airport, or the system is updated.  Not rocket science. 
I literally can't see how your planes could be moving that much and not being where they are supposed to be.

In my wing, if a plane isn't where it's supposed to be, that's a serious issue, and the POC is held responsible.

Seriously? I thought it was clear I was describing an authorized re-location of an aircraft,  usually to get it somewhere to build hours. Only the word sometimes doesn't get out, especially across groups, that it has been relocated. No one stole it. . .we just didn't tell everyone it was moved.

And several times each summer we have PO'ed pilots staring at empty tie-downs. If it's a week day and they took leave, they are REALLY annoyed. WMIRS/NHQ has a pretty good idea where the airplane parked last time (unless the PIC entered the  wrong landing airport code).

I think it's a cheap, easy idea to pop-up a warning when current  location doesn't eqaul home-base location?

True, it won't fix thoses cases where the CAP-USAF guy doesn't bother to schedule it, and just drives out and flys away, but that only happened once. We can live with that. . .

[Eclipse]

You are correct, it is FUBAR.  If you really, truly, believe it isn't typical, congratulations on the organization of your Wing.

Thank you.

With respect, you ain't flying where I fly. It isn't always that bad with my Wing, either. But it is NOT WAY unusual, either.

It really is. I can totally understand your frustration if this is the situation in your wing, but it's not a systematic problem on a
national scale.  One of the things which >is< endemic to CAP is the fact that Wing CC's are given latitude to function as
their own little CAP, and ignore a lot of things NHQ wants them to do.  The new governance may help that somewhat, but
for the most part the autonomy continues.  If you don't use the tools provided, then there's not much NHQ can do to help.

Your situation sounds like how things were in my AOR ten years ago, primarily based on fiefdoms and personalities of bad actors.
Someone needs to clean house.

But with that said, in this and other threads, you've indicated a clear disdain for the UX on NHQ's web resources, which is likely
clouding your use of them.  I'm the last person to defend some of the inexplicable choices they make in UI design, but
since they aren't going to change any time soon, you simply use them and move on.

Gritting your teeth every time you click something in WMIRS will just give you a headache.

[Eclipse]

For example - one of our pilots just cancelled his reservation for this PM because of WX issues and I got a message from WMIRS to that effect.

The ASSRRS knows where the planes are, who is expecting to use them, and notifies members on changes if they are interested in
receiving the information.  You can't reserve a plane that's in maintenance or otherwise booked, which is essentially the
same as your desire for a pop-up on the sortie.

[jayleswo]

I think it's a cheap, easy idea to pop-up a warning when current  location doesn't eqaul home-base location?

Hey SunDog. I'll admit, WMIRS isn't the most user-friendly tool I've ever used and, over the years, I've probably become a bit numb to some of the things that used to frustrate me. Allowing the Aircraft Scheduling module to work in Local vs. Zulu time is still a big one since I don't 'think' in Zulu time (I always have to do a mental conversion). Timing out after 20 minutes when running a mission is another.

Anyway, use the Help Desk link to submit your suggestions. I'm about 1 for 3 in getting stuff changed that way. I'm on CAWG ES staff so I was getting dozens of notifications of pending Ops Qual approvals every day after NHQ implemented a change last month. I submitted a suggestion for a daily digest instead and a few days later, voila! Much less full inbox. Give it a try.

-- John

[NC Hokie]

And I'm probably not up for grouding a guy who forgets to enter tach time. Not a proportional response, is it? And when are you gonna un-ground him? Leave him a voice mail, maybe he'll call back in a few years.  Good chance we won't be hearing from him again. As you say, correcting the bug in the software is a better idea.

Why not?  You've already pointed out that this could lead to cancelling a flight because there isn't enough tach time left to fly the released sortie(s) AND fly the plane to the MX depot.  At best, this inconveniences a pilot planning to do currency training, but what if it scrubs a day of cadet flying?  Or an actual mission?

[Eclipse]

When you consider the only thing that gets a lot of pilots' attention is either money or grounding, we don't have a lot of tools to use
in terms of "proportional response".

[JeffDG]

Wow...that's the quite the process you go through there.

I can process what I need in about 5 minutes of computer time and two phone calls (one pre-flight, one post-flight down and safe)...

So, you've added complications to your process, but you blame the system for those complications...hmmm...

[Al Sayre]

Kind of off topic, but they mentioned at the last NB meeting that an updated version of WIMRS is coming soon...

[SunDog]

Hi Jeff - that isn't the usual process, that would be an exagerration.  Real missions are genearlly very smooth - constant phone comms with the IC,  and he/she is smoothing the way, probably pretty much the same in most Wings, I think . . .

But, aye, Matey, it sure does happen that way more often than a rational mind can accept. . . . Not sure how many of these it would take to burn someone out. Maybe not chase 'em completely away, but perhaps ensure reduced pariticpation.

I'm not succeeding in raising the view up to the 20,000 foot level. Maybe I'm not articulate enough, or focused enough. . .

If the CC asked me (though there is no reason the CC would) I'd say "Hours are down, and pilots think the process to get airborne is klunky. and discourages participation.  Could we spare some $$$ to examine the processes, find some ways to streamline them"?

"Sir/Ma'am, one Wing surveyed their airplane drivers and said the process bites. Maybe we could gen up a survey, get some specifics, see what might be doable,  short term? And we coluld get some comms out, let 'em know we feel their pain, and are evaluating the goat rope."

And, "There may be some cghanges, or may not. But we'll tell you why, either way."

[SunDog]

When you consider the only thing that gets a lot of pilots' attention is either money or grounding, we don't have a lot of tools to use
in terms of "proportional response".

Lot of pilots? Come on. . .really? You have lot of dummies driving airplanes in your Wing? Lot of morons, idiots, self-serving cretins who only care about money and getting airborne?  Maybe it's "some", instead of "lots"? Or just a couple of jerks, maybe? One or two pin-heads who don't respect MOs, and value what they bring to the mission. Or the Ground Team folks. . .

If they've anoyed you, try this - pretend you are a pilot who forgot to populate a single data point on a web-form, one the software doesn't enforce. Heck, there is even a disclaimer on the screen that it isn't required.

Wing informs you that you're grounded. Are we gona hear from yopu again? I'm thinkning possibly not. And CAP just p*ssed away what may be years of training, experience, and local knowledge. You don't use a a nuke to kill a rabbit.

You can do what the maintenance officer did with me - call me, clearly  annoyed, and ask for the numbers. I pull them out of my wallet, read them to him, and apologize. He thanks me, and we agree that WMIRS is. . . you've already heard that part before. . .